Talk:Timothy Treadwell/Archive 1

NOTE: The controversial nature of Timothy Treadwell's life & work has created a lot of discussion on the article's talk page that is not relevant to the writing and editing of article itself. Because this discussion was becoming so long and heated, it has been moved to this archive in order to keep the talk page focused on the article itself. Kevyn 02:58, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

is this guy for real?

has there been any verification of timmoty treadwell's death? what i am suggesting is that he has successfully faked his own death by making a movie about it. i dunno, just food for thought —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.18.253.62 (talk • contribs) 00:36, 25 August 2005

Basically, you think he found two human bodies for bears to eat and tried to pass them off as him and his girlfriend? He's insane, but not that sort of insane. --Apostrophe 18:58, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

missing info from bio

isnt there more info that can be added to the bio? middle-class family, early association with animals, etc.? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.165.87.40 (talk • contribs) 11:25, 4 February 2006

What a wanker he was —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.84.104.39 (talk • contribs) 15:36, 4 February 2006

who are u to say he was a wanker esp. without a "bio" u dont need a past to understand how he came to his "present" life=growing and from all that happened to him in his past, it evolved his life into what it became and ended how it did.who is to judge where the past begins and the present starts —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.174.25.127 (talk • contribs) 00:08, 5 February 2006

does anybody know where he was born? im guessing in california...it may or may not be useful to the article, idk, but i REALLY want to know —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.109.129.107 (talk • contribs) 16:15, 5 March 2006

Long Beach California. Has ANYBODY actually seen the documentary? And his footage? SHEESH. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.200.147.12 (talk • contribs) 13:05, 21 March 2006

crazy but doing the right thing

I think Timothy Treadwell was a man the appreciated the true beauty of the world. He is an inspirational man. I wish there was more people like him ,but not going to live with the bears. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.20.245.229 (talk • contribs) 16:06, 4 February 2006

No, honestly, he was just crazy/stupid. First of all, if what he was doing was arguably detrimental to the safety of the bears by making them accustomed to humans, he was not necessarily doing the right thing just because it has some quality that can be perceived as romantic. Second of all, from what I've seen of the videos, I get the impression that he was really just a thrill-seeking, self-aggrandizing idiot with delusions of grandeur. In the end his futile efforts resulted in his own death and the death of his girlfriend, and for what? Ultimately, Timothy Tredwell is a perfect example of what's wrong with the environmental movement right now: extremists who have blind factless faith in a naturalistic philosophy that has no basis in fact. A member of a culture of joiners who started to idolize symbolism over actual environmental progress.

And yes, it's very easy to destroy something someone creates. You set fire to it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 163.1.52.176 (talk • contribs) 02:22, 5 February 2006

Timothy Treadwell Was Clearly Not A Sane Individual

I dispute the notion that anybody is truly "sane" and believe we are each insane in a different way. Eddietoran 21:07, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Unfortunately this "documentary" does little to address Mr. Treadwell's sadly obvious mental illness, paranoia, antisocial behavior, and at the same time seemingly glorifying his insane behavior. He has done no favors for the bears, who as man-eaters had to be destroyed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.120.208.101 (talk • contribs) 10:23, 5 March 2006

And he was responsible for the death of his girlfriend by his irresponsible

and insane relationships that he formed with wild, carnivorus animals who only acted with their instincts, and the one(s) who ate them should not even have been killed for it/or they were only doing what is normal for their wild nature.

Treadwell was living in a willy wonka dreamworld that became a deadly nightmare for him and his innocent girlfriend. -(Cathytreks 23:20, 24 February 2006 (UTC))

An odd viewpoint to have. Wasn't his girlfriend an adult? Are you saying he forced her to go too close to the bears with him? Unless you're saying she was forced against her will to go dangerously close to the bears, then you're calling her "insane" too. She was a grown woman. No one else can be held responsible for her actions but her. And I fail to see the point of your adding this comment to the talk page. -Kasreyn 08:33, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

What...?! An "odd viewpoint" to speak the truth that is clear?

Certainly, I'll grant you that Treadwell's girlfriend was a grown woman, chronologicaly at least, but of course it would be just as easy to say that Treadwell's girlfriend was his emotionaly immature "groupie" who followed him around and did whatever he foolishly told her to do and clearly lacked any common sense for herself, and her own survival, so your right... she was of legal age to be mortaly stupid herself.

For either one of them to be out there without defensive and life saving firearms was a virtual act of insanity/or suicide for both of them in, and of itself, it need not have ended the way it did if either one of them had a ounce of common sense.

These people knowingly placed themselves in harm's way, in area well known for many past fatal bear attacks, and Timothy Treadwell in his delusional lack of perspective cared not a wit about it, or for in reality, his girlfriend/victim of his candyland view of raw nature.

After having viewed all the films and read the many books and having visited virtualy all the websites on this matter it becomes painfully clear that Treadwell who was a emotionaly disturbed individual living out his fantasy's in his "Willy Wonka Dreamworld" character, that he created for himself, which ended up costing the lives of four living beings, since he and his girlfriend had no high powered weapons, they instead became a tasty dinner/lunch to a hungry bear or two, and then of course, the bears needlessly having to get shot and killed afterwards for only doing what was natural for them, and should always be exspected in their wild kingdom...that is neither ours to intrude upon or take for granted as ever being "safe".

Timothy Treadwell was clearly not in his right mind, and he should neither be made out into some sort of heroic icon, nor as some here with seemingly closed eyes and ears, would foolishly seek to make him out to be...that is, a "demi-god" and "bear-whisperer"...for there never was and never will be any such thing, with these dangerous wild creatures who should be left alone in the wild and only studied from afar by man.

One can feel sorry for Timothy and even more so for his girlfriend for their quite needless deaths, Treadwell was a suicidal individual who clearly sought out what he got by his own "fantasyland/candyland" game he was playing with giant hungry bears who look upon us, as human beings as just another tasty morsel, or dinner for them and their cubs, that is unless of course you have total blinders on about what these people who became the bear food they represented to them.

And b.t.w., the point of my NPOV commentary here as you asked was and is to get to the truth of the matter, and let others beware of playing with such "fire"...unless your seeking pain...and in their case's a horribly sad and unnessisary death. Cathytreks 17:38, 25 February 2006 (UTC))

I hesitate to reply here, but after a little thought, I decided to. I think Treadwell was irresponsible, misguided, and indeed, foolish in how he interacted with the bears. I think that his interactions with bears created a habituation that endangered others who visited the park. That said, I think it's unwise to make blanket statements about someone's sanity. The documentary, books, etc that you've read are opinion pieces, based on the opinions of their creators. Treadwell had a passion. Passions sometimes cause people to do foolish things, but they don't necessarily make them mentally unstable for having them.

Now as far as the accident, I've extensively read the news reports from after the attack. The bear attack very well could have happened to any camper who had camped there, irregardless of who they were. The bear in question was old and hungry, and like as not, Treadwell and his girlfriend were in the wrong place at the wrong time. What made Treadwell's death different in the eyes of those who survived him and the press was his relationship with bears.

Somehow, because he was a bear activist who had interacted with bears in a somewhat foolish way, it is presumed that his death was a direct result of it. You can't make that judgement call. Even the investigators at the scene refused to make that call. Keep in mind that as irresponsible as his relationship with bears might have been, he'd interacted with them for years, and by all accounts, was aware of how dangerous they could be. His death is not proof of insanity, and I'd be careful throwing the term around when basing it on clearly biased opinion pieces such as "Grizzley Man" and others like it. --Lendorien 20:14, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

Now hang on a second, I too have been reading much of the documentation that was not part of the documentary. I do not agree that the authorities do NOT make a judgement call. Some clearly state that his choice of camping location BECAUSE he believed he had a relationship with the bears most likely was a contributing factor in his death.

I do agree that his death doesn't indicate he was insane - in actuality I think he may have been more sane than many people since he had been doing something for so many years without incident that he built up a confidence about it. There are many people in the world who do something for years and years but NEVER get past their fears. That said, his confidence was misplaced and was clearly overconfidence in that he placed himself in a situation which he had NOT experienced by remaining later in the year.

To me the only evidence in his death is that he failed to take into account the lack of predictability in nature, especially in the differences in volatility in animals during different seasons. A tendency to become cocky or comfortable in a situation, no matter how outrageous, is not an indicator of insanity - to me it is a clear example of basic human nature.

Just because he was a bit over the top and zany does not mean he was in any way mentally ill. He does show possible indications that he may have been bipolar but that is impossible to judge since he is clearly creating an on screen persona in his videos - how much of that persona is Tim and how much of that is Tim trying to get attention for him and his cause? Only his friends and family can really know for sure, and since they didn't have him locked up... well, draw your own conclusions.--CokeBear 04:21, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Yikes. I had no idea you'd get so upset over it. I just felt that there wasn't much known about Treadwell's girlfriend, and that treating her like she wasn't responsible for her own actions was sort of condescending. My apologies if I somehow offended you. -Kasreyn 02:01, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Don't talk about what you don't understand

Treadwell wasn’t stupid and he wasn’t crazy, he was a reject of society. Some people don’t see the modern world as we do now, and those people don’t feel right in the horrible chaos we call civilization. Yea, he did some things that some other people in the modern world wouldn’t do, but this was better than wasting his life among people he didn’t feel right with. Timothy Treadwell belonged with the bears, and he knew it. Also, saying that what he did was bad for the bears by creating a familiarity with humans isn't true, because it was a small familiarity with a big benefit to the bears themselves. He educated many people about the bears he spent time with and bonded with the nature he wanted to be one with. So, don’t diss Treadwell about the things he’s done, if you were in his position, you would have done the same.-6,21 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.141.247.249 (talk • contribs) 22:36, 25 February 2006

I'd Agree, his tactics were odd, but his impact was great. For instance, the man made friends with a wild fox, a fox, unbelievable! He will one day be looked on as another Thoreau, or Muir, and I think I see a little Jefferson in him also. Hell Herzog even compares him to a couple of the latter at one point in the documenatry. Long live his legacy! In the immortal words of TT "fuck you mother fuckers in the park service! Who the fuck do you think you are to try to stop ME? I fucked you up! I fucking won! Fuck yourself you park service mother fuckers". A truly beautiful individual. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.245.63.69 (talk • contribs) 00:11, 26 February 2006

What are you talking about? It was pretty clear that Timothy was more than a little cookoo! Sorry he died and all, but that doesn't change the facts. Just because he couldn't function in normal society and decided to leave it behind, doesn't mean he belonged with the bears. It means he needed some kind of guidance and psychotherapy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.120.197.241 (talk • contribs) 23:58, 25 February 2006

Cuckoo? In comparison to what? The axiomatic boundaries people have lived with ever since someone took a shit in Jericho? Who's to say that WE aren't "cuckoo"? We drive machines that spew smoke into the air. We tell pollsters that we're willing to drop bombs on those we've never met. We ceremonially murder innocent people by sticking syringes full of poison in their veins. There are people who are so brilliant and elevated above the arguements, the ideologies, the biases, the social network itself, that they will be ridiculed to no end by people who would rather drink their shitty lattes and download shitty music onto their shitty iPods. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.165.87.40 (talk • contribs) 19:21, 26 February 2006

God, it's like a freshman community-college debate team in here all of a sudden. Will you two please tone down the level of anger in the air? And maybe sign your posts as well? Wikipedia is a place for civilized debate, not name-calling and rhetoric-spewing, and that goes for both of you. Just. Cool it. -Kasreyn 06:43, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

He's not ‘cuckoo’. Don’t you think that there are people that don’t think they belong in concrete jungles or fake suburbias? What would you have rather him to have done, waste his life and amazing personality on anti-depressant drugs? Yea he died, but he died helping the bears. I think what he did was not even remotely as crazy as the insane way we waste our lives in civilization today. We watch TV, we spend endless hours on computers but we scrutinize the one person who did something with his life. Maybe he had a short life because of this, but if he hadn’t done it, he wouldn’t have lived.-6,21 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.141.247.249 (talk • contribs) 00:23, 26 February 2006

Go live with bears and get eaten. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.239.213.149 (talk • contribs) 11:54, 26 February 2006

It's better than od'ing and dying.-6,21 —Preceding unsigned comment added by TAH6,21 (talk • contribs) 14:19, 26 February 2006

BOTH of you need to take a step back, draw a breath, and reread WP:CIVIL. This is starting to get nasty. -Kasreyn 21:57, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

It's obvious to anyone with a proper chromosome count that he didn't have a death wish. Seen the Letterman interview? He explicitly states "the Grizzly's the boss out there" (this isn't the only example, just the most public). He even went so far as to tell his friends that if he died (at the hands [paws?] of a bear), he wouldn't want the bear to be killed. Considering how on the edge the life he lived was, I think you can at best count this as his last wishes, however unofficial they may be. Would you call someone who drafted up a will cuckoo? I think not. But for some reason, because it (much like he) doesn't conform to YOUR personal standards, they are, for some reason, less valid. Not to get all preachy, but he wasn't stupid/crazy/retarded/reckless (okay maybe a wee bit)/insane. There are people out there right now claiming that terrorism is justified. Killing innocent people, justified. Propoganda by the deed, yada, yada, yada. I don't see anyone calling for these people to be strung up by their balls in the village plaza (except Hannity). Why is it "cuckoo", then, to care about animals. GOD did create them, right? (No he didn't, but you get the point). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.165.87.40 (talk • contribs) 04:15, 28 February 2006

For the life of me I can't figure out why you're aiming your rebuttal at me. I've taken no stance on this issue one way or the other. All I'm asking you to do is use the talk page like an adult, that is, civilly and politely. Personally, I really don't care whether Treadwell was a noble crusader or a cuckoo-bird. He's dead and I'm not. Stop putting other people's arguments in my mouth, please. -Kasreyn 12:31, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I agree with you..."THEY" do need to calm down... Kasreyn, and I am not either one of those above unsigned, If I have something to say...I always put my name to it!... however I do continue to believe that Treadwell was an insane individual for his "Pied Piper"/"Willy Wonka" of the Forest" mentality, which in the end got him his suicide death wish fullfillment, but victimized, his girlfriend, and the bears who ate them. Treadwell's death will serve as a warning to all who would foolishly seek such a "candyland/fantasyland" existence with wild bears of alaska...which are all carniverous and dangerously untamable creatures in the wilds of their territory's. -(Cathytreks 16:41, 27 February 2006 (UTC))

I understand your viewpoint, and it's certainly quite valid. But, respectfully, what does it have to do with editing this article? It's clearly far too POV to be included, which I think you must surely see. Just for the thrill of debate? I'm confused. -Kasreyn 12:28, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Having read read the books and watched the documentary, it appears to me that while bears were his passion, they were also his "venue." He is more hung up on his relationship with them than on their actual welfare. Even his references to how dangereous the bears are, and how they dominate their environement seems self-serving to me. Sort of a "most of you aren't special enough to try this -- but I can." So I feel the bears ended up being one more way for Tim to express his Timness. It was about Tim, more than the bears -- he wanted to be special and unique. He succeeded -- but the bears were secondary.

Everyone, including Treadwell, speaks of his "relationship" with the bears. Relationship is a misleading term to use, because it implies a bilateral situation, wherein both parties are participating in the "same" relationship. Tim had a human-like relationship with some of these bears; the bears had a bear-like relationship with Tim. Tim's was obviously one of affection and a (erroneous) sense of inclusion -- he finally had a community. Who knows how the bears perceived Tim -- whether they felt fear, affection, trepidation, tolerance, curiosity, or saw him as possible prey. We will never know. I think Tim's fatal error was in thinking the bears accepted him and cared for him in a human manner. In reality, they didn't treat him any differently than they treat each other or any other species. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.81.205.20 (talk • contribs) 12:45, 7 July 2006

Do you really think he had a death wish?

Just because he used his time in a dangerously does not mean he had a death wish. If he did he would have killed himself in the many easy ways available and used by tens of thousands of people today. He wouldnt have traveled to a far away bear sanctuary and then made bonds with the bears he planned to kill himself with. Also, most of the bears were omnivores, usually with a majorally carnivorous diet but nevertheless they are omnivores.-6,21 —Preceding unsigned comment added by TAH6,21 (talk • contribs) 18:38, 27 February 2006

When you constantly participate in activities where the risk of death is "extremely high" if not "certain" then guess what? You have a death wish...

It makes your arguement very weak if you have to rationalize the actions of an obviously irrational person... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.5.10.140 (talk • contribs) 11:29, 14 August 2006

Bears are people too

You know as an environmentalist I think Timothy Treadwell was doing the right thing. What showed this was not his actions but the heart he put into these actions. And bears are an important part of our ecosystem so we should all,animals and people,be treated equally. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.110.202.198 (talk • contribs) 20:12, 6 March 2006

Oh baloney WE ARE NOT EQUAL!...Timothy Treadwell was...a TOTALY lost individual, insanely "living" out a fantasyland/candyland existance in his delusional willy wonka lifestyle!

Did you ever hear of the saying?..."dont feed the bears"...?

Well theres a reason for it, and Treadwell got his own death wish fullfillment, yet sadly he caused the deaths of that groupie of his, and the two innocent bears who were only doing what was natural for them to do in their kingdom of the wilds,....as wild creatures they EAT MEAT! and thats what we as humans are in their eyes!~

It is only too bad they didnt get way with it regarding Treadwell...the dead clown of the forest!

(Cathytreks 14:15, 9 March 2006 (UTC))

Is that seriously all that you think that timothy Treadwell is? The ‘dead clown of the forest’? Just because he was a lost individual doesn’t mean that he was insane. Even though he did do some strange things, surely that is not enough to classify Treadwell as insane? And even if it is, are you sure that you have the authority to say that he is insane?

Furthermore, Timothy Treadwell never fed any bears and it is NOT usual behavior for any bear to kill and eat a humans. BTW, only one bear killed Treadwell and his ‘groupie’. —Preceding unsigned comment added by TAH6,21 (talk • contribs) 11:44, 11 April 2006

Actually Treadwell did feed bears. In Grizzly Man he's shown feeding a bear. Throw 07:16, 9 August 2006 (UTC)