Talk:Thebaine

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Thebaine isn't used to make codeine, hydrocodone or hydromorphone. All 3 are made from morphine. Thebaine is a much more expensive precursor than morphine and drug companies use the cheapest route.

Wrong about one thing. Codeine is a natural opioid found in opium along with morphine and thebaine.--Metalhead94 ^{T C} 18:09, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Currently most of the codeine in the world is made synthetically from morphine, although there is some codeine naturally in the poppy. 05 Sept 13

It was only very recently changed. This change just made Hydrocodone more addictive and the authorities involved in setting mind altering drugs standards for potential abuse possibilities raising it to a Schedule 2 but by using those standards as a true guide then why is Oxycodone not raised to a schedule 1 level. As said before, “Money can blind the sharpest eye”. RustyBear (talk) 21:35, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

thebaine practical

historically, thebaine was extracted from both indain and turkish opium. in the laste 60s and early 70s,it was also extracted from seized opium from afghanistan. The assay of thebaine was direcly affected by the timing of the harvest/lancing of the capsules. In india, farmers were paid for morphine content, so thebaine assay could range from 2 to 5 per cent. thebaine was used almost exclusively for the production of oxycodone until the early 1970s. the amount of oxycodone required almost matched the thebaine extracted from indian opium for products such as percodan and percocet tm. In the early 70s ,thebeine was also used for developmental quantitiies of the new family of nal products. However there was not enough thebaine to support the growth of the nal products, and new patented and unpatented routes to the nals were developedvia morphine. however,as the demand for oxycodone continued to grow, work began to develop strains of poppies that would yield high levels of thebaine,as opposed to morphine. initial plant selection work was done in france, with additional mutant strains developed in tazmania and austrailia. this was necessary to suppor t the introduction of purdue fredericks oxycodone product, oxycontin tm. in addition, for a period of time, thebaine was synthesized from codeine until an adequate source could be harvested. today thebine is grown in large quantities in france,australia and tazmania, while some is still extracted from indian opium. ```` —Preceding unsigned comment added by Groodle (talk • contribs) 16:55, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Get some reliable references for that story and you could add some of it to the article. Otherwise, it would be treated as an anecdotal report and removed.--Metalhead94 ^{T C} 22:01, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Not sure how to do this properly, but just wanted to comment that the entire introduction is taken word-for-qord from a Princeton University page and not referenced... Seems like bad form to me. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.127.252.5 (talk) 02:18, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

today...

oripavine is very chemically close to thebaine. currently, oripavine can be converted into thebaine, inceasing the overall supply, as oripavine is found in the same mutant strains of poppies from australia and tazmania.```` —Preceding unsigned comment added by Groodle (talk • contribs) 17:15, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Yes, that is true. Oripavine is a metabolite of thebaine. However, I don't see many indications that this is a common practice.--Metalhead94 ^{T C} 22:07, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

It is true that the Papaver somniferum strain in Australia and Tazmania does contain a high amount of oripavine, besides morphine, because oripavine can be used in industry similarly to thebaine (from P. bracteatum and orientale) for the synthesis of a number of semi-synthetic opiates, but in contrast to thebaine, oripavine is indeed a narcotic alkaloid unlike thebaine. Most of the morphine by the way from P. somniferum and opium is methylated to obtain codeine, because this compound is weight-wise in much higher demand than morphine. Much of the legal, commercial production of natural opiates (such as morphine and codeine, an oripavine and thebaine) is carried out through extraction of the entire plant material (poppy straw) and not through the extraction of opium itself. India, however, still has a large scale legal opium production. This opium is then also used to manufacture a number of official preparations such as Tincture of Opium, or the dried extract thereof (Extractum opii siccatum, standardized to 10 % morphine). Otherwise opium is more associated with illegal production, namely to prepare illegal smokable opium (tschandu) or mostly for morphine base, which is later converted to heroin for the illegal market. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Osterluzei (talk • contribs) 23:34, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

what goes around, comes around. thebaine was used to make oxycodone and hydrocodone by penick, mallinckrodt, and merck in the 70s. as thebaine became scarce as oxycodone use increased, while nal products grew, all manufacturers shifted to morphine/codeine as starting material. 30 years later, the growing of thebaine in tazmania/australia and france has again changed the economics. jnj in the us is currently trying to sell hydrocodone made from thebaine, since it has an oversupply and it costs no more than morphine, due to improvements in yield. hydrocone made from thebaine is a little "cleaner" in terms of an impurity profile..data to support this can be found in the dea quota on their website. other manufacturers are continuing to make hydrocone from morphine/ codiene. the other reason for this is the shift of nal production form thebaine to oripavine. there is now a surplus of thebaine.Odoodle (talk) 15:54, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

I always felt like Oxycodone had a cleaner sharper effect than hydrocodone. Kind of like the difference between a needle and the end of your thumb, if you can grasp the concept. Strangely hydrocodone caused no desire for more unlike Oxycodone which had an incredibly strong desire for more. But I was so very naive about prescription drugs and trained, if you will, to trust doctors implicitly, that I could feel safe taking anything prescribed for me without fear of any amount that the drug given would never harm me. 1983 after a car rear ended me (cars at that time were essentially tanks without the canon) I was given several medications for headaches which were ineffective until given Percocet 5 which nauseated me severely. I called the doctor’s office and the nurse told me something that ruined my life over and over. She said, “Take half the pill”. I believe that nearly everyone is born with a missing or aberrated protein in our DNA and since we are all different, different chemicals will cause euphoria in each of us. Anything from exercise to alcohol to thebaine variations to plain aspirin can lead to addiction to that source. That simple instruction hit me like a lightning strike and made me confident, determined and somewhat reckless yet relaxed in making decisions that caused two businesses to thrive and grow exponentially then ripped them apart at the same time my wife was given a death sentence from brittle type 1 diabetes. A reason to move back to Atlanta. Wow, all the doctors passing out Percocet instead of lollipops. But DuPont didn’t give them or me the deep warnings that were grossly needed. 8 years after that first half and only one of those per day to 6 at a time 4 and more times per day. All the different doctors every day while keeping my wife alive for 5 years longer than given yet watching her waste away and fall apart horribly. I was told that it probably kept me alive during this time because of military PTSD nightmares and flashbacks and the horrible sight and inability to stop what was happening to the girl I was so deeply in love with and 26 years after her death, still feel even more so. I stopped by using a tapering Methadone regimen. Still 6 years after doing so had a massive spine surgery that failed immediately and back on Oxycodone and joined by Fentanyl I went as though destined to have to take this poison the rest of my life and I am still using it. During these last 30 or so years I never took anything that took my mental abilities from me in any capacity. I controlled it for 16 years until the Fentanyl patches were exchanged for 30 mg Oxycodone every 6 hours then everything fell apart trying to cover the pain when that patch effectiveness was removed. My entire life now destroyed because of a plant that Pharmaceutical Corporations could not leave in its natural state. We humans just can not stop synthesizing molecules in order to out perform Mother Nature. A last note: Oxycodone like Heroin was originally released as a non addictive pain killer and certain corporations knew how dangerous they both were. Why else would they outlaw Heroin in 1924 (I believe). They knew things would end up in the state so many of us battle every day. Now backpedaling, “Oh, we had no idea we would be selling trillions of dollars of this compound every year”. Really? Check out the YouTube video regarding Oxxycontin where 2 doctors tout the non addictive properties. They knew it was a lie. If they had no idea then why did the creation in 1904 of Oxycodone lead to it’s shelving 15 years later and picked back up by Merck and other German companies and our own FDA, Medical organizations and the very people we send to Washington pass it through approval with hardly any opposition at all? Money can blind the sharpest eye! RustyBear (talk) 21:15, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

Stimulant

What is the mode of action of Thebaine as a stimulant? The areas of action in the CNS and the pharmacological functionality in technical terms to that effect? Nagelfar (talk) 07:20, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

I'd like to know too. --SlimNm (talk) 23:23, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

It synthetically replaces the dopamine normally created by glands controlled by the Hypothalamus (An incredibly strong force from such a small area of the brain). I never realized until today that it was a stimulant. It’s tendency to anesthetize every natural sense we have, even smell and hearing are affected. RustyBear (talk) 21:25, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

Assessment comment

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Thebaine is one of only a few opiate alkaloids, and is a very important precursor for a number of semi-synthetic opioids. a great deal of research has been done on it, but its lack of implicit therapeutic value makes it more specialized knowledge. within the scope of chemistry/pharmacology, i ranked it at mid-importance. as for quality, the text itself is very stubby, but given the presence of a userbox with structure diagram, i leaned in favor of start-class. desperately needs sections re: presence in opium and poppy straw; synthetic uses (opioids); legal status (sched. II of CSA, sched I of UN 1961 convention), and of course references. there is a LOT of information available - i was truly surprised to find the article so lacking. i plan to add a significant amount in the next week or two. St3vo 15:40, 20 September 2007 (UTC) upon review of the criteria, i think this is only stub quality despite the (mostly empty) table and lovely drawing - i think (chembox new subst drug) would probably be a better infobox since thebaine itself isn't used therapeutically. i've changed the quality rating accordingly, although i'd appreciate and defer to the opinion of a more seasoned reviewer. St3vo 17:12, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Last edited at 17:12, 20 September 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 08:31, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

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