Talk:The Village (2019 TV series)

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Requested move 29 March 2019[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: No consensus to move at this time. Although the number of supports outweighs the number of opposes, I have tried to assess the strength of arguments. I find the reference to the guideline WP:NCTVUS compelling and not successfully rebutted. If the nominator believes that consensus has changed since the guideline was written, then they should look at getting that changed first. Some editors who commented about "reader-friendly" did not address the issue of consistency. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 21:02, 7 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]


The Village (2019 TV series) → The Village (U.S. TV series) – Better to distinguish the 2019 American TV series from the two British TV series of the same name – The Village (1993 TV series) and The Village (2013 TV series) – using "by country" disambiguation under WP:NCTV, as "by country" disambiguation is generally considered to be more WP:RECOGNIZABLE in situations such as these. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 20:03, 29 March 2019 (UTC)--Relisting. B dash (talk) 00:05, 18 April 2019 (UTC) --Relisting. SITH (talk) 12:23, 27 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose, or support all moving to country disambiguation, any argument for one moving to country because it's "more recognizable" applies equally to them all. --Netoholic @ 20:59, 29 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support: Disambiguating by country is more reader friendly. — YoungForever(talk) 21:52, 29 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - country is more reader friendly. I also agree with Netoholic, but we have two British shows so only country can't work and sadly (per my perspective) the guideline seems to prefer alternative short disambiguation over extended disambiguation (as in, "TV series" -> "country TV series" -> "year country TV series"). --Gonnym (talk) 00:39, 30 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Well, to be clear, anyone who wants to can create The Village (1993 UK TV series) and The Village (2013 UK TV series) as redirects, to aid in reader discovery. But for an article title it's overly/unnecessarily disambiguation, yes. And, in this case doing to wouldn't fully meet WP:CONSISTENCY anyway unless the U.S. series was also moved to The Village (2019 U.S. TV series), and the latter would definitely be an example of unnecessary disambiguation. The bottom line is that "double disambiguation" is simply not needed in all but a handful of cases. And "mixing and matching" "by country" and "by year" disambiguation in the same set of article isn't some big crime – for example in this case, the "by year" ones will still exist as either basic titles or as a redirect, and The Village (UK TV series) (once created as a redirect, as per WP:INCDAB) will still get readers where they want to go in two clicks. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 15:17, 30 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      • By the logic of your own nomination here, two articles that differ in country of origin should use (country TV series). Two articles from the same country that differ by year should use (year TV series). When an article differs via both of those mechanisms, it should use (year country TV series). This means the US article does not need year, but the UK ones need both. Personally, I'm fine leaving them all done by year only, but if any use country, they all have to. -- Netoholic @ 00:51, 31 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per nom. By country is more reader-friendly where possible, as it is with the US program -- Whats new?(talk) 02:56, 31 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - I don't mind supporting this, but it just seems like a lot of work for a show unlikely to survive beyond a single season because of its mediocre ratings. Esuka (talk) 18:30, 1 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Yep. But articles for "one-season wonders" don't generally disappear after they're cancelled, so we should still move the article to its "best" title... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 20:54, 1 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. It seems odd to have two other articles disambiguated by year and this one by country. I would note WP:NCTVUS says "Prefix the year of release or program debut...Generally used when there are shows with the same title within the same region and/or across multiple regions," which is the case here. Calidum 18:47, 6 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • There have been multiple previous RM results supporting a move like this – pretty much everyone agrees that "country" disambig. is more WP:RECOGNIZABLE than "by year" disambig. We really only do "by year" when there are two are more TV series with the same title from the same country, where "by country" disambig. can't be used, as is the case for the UK series here. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 13:50, 9 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      • It doesn't really matter what past discussions have found, because the guideline I quoted seems pretty clear to me, especially when you so obviously misrepresented the guideline in the nomination. Calidum 15:01, 9 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
        • Seriously, Calidum?! Talk about assuming bad faith... Let's just say, I've done many more of these types of RM than you have, the guideline also says Prefix the country of broadcast... Generally used when shows are distinct primarily due to region... (emphasis mine), and most RMs have agreed with me on the interpretation. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 16:01, 9 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
          • How does WP:NCTVUS not support this exactly? How does Prefix the country of broadcast (U.S. TV series). Generally used when shows are distinct primarily due to region not cover this? Also, previous discussions do matter, as they are in fact how consensus is established. It might be our (as in the entire community) fault for not translating these discussions back to the guideline, but that does not detract from their importance. --Gonnym (talk) 16:14, 9 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
            • Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't IJBall have consensus for this move? He's currently on 4 support and 2 oppose. Esuka (talk) 19:48, 10 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Agreed that this seems more reader friendly than the years option.--Yaksar (let's chat) 00:34, 15 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose As Calidum says, WP:NCTVUS/UK says Prefix the year of release or program debut – (1997 TV series). Generally used when there are shows with the same title within the same region [and] across multiple regions. (emphasis mine) This is clearly that situation. WP:NCDAB says If there are several possible choices for parenthetical disambiguation, use the same disambiguating phrase already commonly used for other topics within the same class and context, if any. I think this implies that consistency in naming schema across a group of topics with the same name/type is preferable to mix'n'match. Safrolic (talk) 22:34, 16 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per IJBall. Amaury (talk | contribs) 14:18, 27 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Upon relisting, at my Talk page StraussInTheHouse asked for some recent RM precedents favoring "by country" disambiguation over "by year" disambiguation (even in a "mixed" by country/by year set of articles), so what follows is a list of these to help facilitate closing this RM request – note that the following listing is by no means comprehensive: it's just a list of fairly recent RM precedents on the question that I was able to gather quickly:
As can be seen from this listing, there is a pretty strong consensus to move articles to "by country" disambig. whenever possible, when TV shows with the same title have been boradcast in two or move different countries, which is the purpose of this RM. Yes, WP:NCTV should perhaps be updated to reflect this consensus, but that doesn't change the consensus... As the current 6 (really 7, if you include myself, the nominator) to 3 !vote count confirms --IJBall (contribs • talk) 16:03, 1 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • For the last time, how hard is it to understand what “Prefix the year of release or program debut...when there are shows with the same title within the same region and/or across multiple regions" means? That’s the issue here. The examples you provide have one TV show in one country and one with the same title in a different country. In this, however, there are three TV shows with this title, including two in the same country. Because of that, we use the year to disambiguate. And the vote count is irrelevant here, because consensus is not a vote. Calidum 19:14, 2 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • And again – the last two listed are a "mixed set" of "by year" and "by country" disambig'ed, so no the guideline is not being implemented as you are implying (even if that is what Netoholic would prefer). The most important factor is that readers can easily find what they're looking for – and in 10 years, people will find this article much more easily at "U.S. TV series" than at "2019 TV series" (esp. if it ends up being a "one-season wonder", as Esuka is likely correctly assuming above). --IJBall (contribs • talk) 00:24, 3 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
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