Talk:The Final Fantasy Legend

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Good articleThe Final Fantasy Legend has been listed as one of the Video games good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
June 8, 2009Good article nomineeListed
November 13, 2009Peer reviewReviewed
Current status: Good article

Resources[edit]

A small bit of Google searching brought up a couple sites that could help in the production of this article:

  • FFL Shrine - mostly Wikibooks-esque material (statistics and the like), but there's bound to be something in there.
  • FAQs via Gamespot - a collection of Walkthrus and FAQs; most have things like plot details, character classes, major in-game areas; those are the kinds of things to shoot for, no?

Eh, that's actually all I can find for now. Adios. -- gakon5 (talk)

Infamy[edit]

Isn't this the game where you fight God at the end and kill Him with one blow from a chainsaw? 142.161.204.198 19:51, 26 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, unless you used the chainsaw on a different enemy. It's only good for one use, and after that it breaks. You can still defeat the Creator without the chainsaw, but that's a lot tougher. 65.41.184.195 23:09, 17 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

What's interesting is that the Japanese version refers to him / her as "kami," which literally means god. However, the North American translation localized the enemy as simply "Creator." It's funny how Western localizations tend to be subjected to "Judeo-Christian filtration." Grendel 13:27, 28 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, that was a Nintendo policy that ended about halfway through the SNES's time at the top. It was annoying but necessary: Nintendo had to set clear guidelines for game making after the industry crashed in the 80s. It gets REALLY funny on Final Fantasy 6 (3 US): super famicom version: nude rear for Siren. US SNES Version: fully coverd by cloth extension. GBA Version: still coverd up but only with half of the original material amount. That really kinda says it all, I think. 74.128.56.194 (talk) 07:17, 17 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

A few minor edits[edit]

I just corrected two things in the article, I edited out the "Humans are the strongest class" simply because that's debateable and not very neutral.

Also the section that lists potions for Humans to use listed Mana-increasing ones, which don't exist in this game. slimequest 02:53, 2 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I clarified the effect of potions on Human classes, although I'm still concerned it's unclear how the Hit Point Potions work. I also deleted an unnecessary external link to Moby Games--the link had no further information on the game and seemed to be mainly a commercial link. Gorjus 19:22, 28 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hit point potions give you either 1-20 or 1 hit point(s) depending on your max hit points prior to imbibing the potion. For instance, a character with 200 or fewer hit points who imbibes an HP200 will recieve 1-20 hp, wheras if a character with 203 hit points imbibed an HP200, they would only be raised to 204 hit points. There is no upper limit to hit points, but the highest potion in the game is HP600. Once your characters have 601+ hit points, it is more economical to buy HP200s in bulk.

Translations[edit]

I thought it wouldn't hurt to add a small translation of the Japanese title, since there are major differences between it and the North American release title. However, I'm just curious about what others think, because the title is hard to interpret in the first place, as it seems like it can go many directions. I simply went with "SaGa of the Demon Tower" because it seemed to reflect the game with the most accuracy. Now, however, I'm having second thoughts. Maybe something like, "SaGa: The Celestial Tower" would make more sense. Does anyone have any thoughts about this? Grendel 00:09, 2 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I actually changed it to what I thought would be a litte better before seeing your note. My study of the language is far from complete, so if you object let me know.Onikage725 11:18, 19 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Looks even better. Good job! 68.209.235.149 00:32, 13 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I took a poetic license with the current translation, if no one minds. I think "Heroes of the Infernal Tower" may be a more accurate way to transliterate according to cultural differences. Feel free to change it back, however. 74.242.104.247 (talk) 22:48, 29 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I went ahead and corrected the translation problems. "Warriors of the Demon Realm Tower" is the most literal form, given the kanji readings below:

魔 - (ma) demon; devil 界 - (kai) describes an invisible force or barrier 魔界 - (makai) this means hell or demon realm, not spirit world 塔 - (tou) this is a type of tower, or pyramid 士 - (shi) a warrior, or bushido

There shouldn't be any need to change it around. 74.242.103.118 (talk) 15:28, 28 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The translation used is from them though. I'd rather use a translation I can actually cite than one pulled toghether. Also note you use the plural "warriors", when the translation from them is clearly saying "Warrior" in the singular, and the manual and game's emphasis is in part on the party leader, who is the only character you can't replace.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 18:01, 28 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Anyone can easily cite an individual's interpretation or mistranslation. That doesn't make it factual. Keep in mind, facts before references. 74.242.122.25 (talk) 17:26, 27 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Your "fact" has no support, especially the "warrior(s)" part.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 17:30, 27 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Semantics don't call for references. The title is somewhat hard to approximate in English, but the most literal idea is that tou and shi describe a type of warrior, "tower warrior." ma and kai describe the concept of hell in Japanese mythology. So it's along the lines of "The Tower Warrior of Hell / the Demon Realm." (but "Warrior(s) of the Demon Realm Tower" also sounds more appropriate if you want to localize the game) I am native Japanese, by the way. 74.242.122.25 (talk) 17:35, 27 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
You apparently don't know how Wikipedia works. You can be native Japanese, but a citation outweighs a random translation. Especially a citation of a title that can be found in various sources including Amazon.com. Unless you can find a reliable source that can vouch what you're saying that outweighs the other sources, then it doesn't belong here.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 17:50, 27 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
You are mistaken. Wikipedia explicity states a neutrality toward semantics. See WP:SPELLING and WP:MOS-JP. Articles with translations do not (and are not required) to reference transliterated material. 74.242.122.25 (talk) 17:57, 27 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Did you also check the policies to see cases where a citable title outweighs one that isn't? Check WP:COMMONNAME for some relevance. In a case of two conflicting translations, the most common and citable one remains.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 18:02, 27 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
That would of course be fine if the title were a common name, but it's not. It's the individual interpretation of a specific website you've linked to. The common name in this case is simply "The Final Fantasy Legend." 74.242.122.25 (talk) 18:05, 27 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I've brought the discussion over here for further input and a resolution as this by itself isn't going to get either of us anywhere.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 18:12, 27 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Fair use rationale for Image:SaGa1WSCBox.jpg[edit]

Image:SaGa1WSCBox.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 08:14, 21 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Possible connection to Gamma World?[edit]

From http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessage.php?board=563273&topic=42749064

It's widely known that the original NES Final Fantasy was heavily inspired by the pen-and-paper RPG Dungeons & Dragons (to the extent of over 90% of the monsters in FF coming straight from the pages of the Monster Manual) but I think I've found a possible pen-and-paper inspiration for The Final Fantasy Legend as well.

In the late 1970s, around the same time the first edition of Advanced D&D, TSR published an RPG titled "Gamma World" set on a post-apocalyptic Earth. The inhabitants of the Gamma World (and thus the player characters in the game) come in three types: "Pure" humans, mutant humans, and sentient (mutated) animals of various species. Mutant characters roll dice against a "mutation table" to determine what superhuman abilities they possess--including mental powers like ESP and telekinesis, fire and electrical attacks, and a power called "life leech" which drains HP from every being in the vicinity, friend and foe alike.

Although there were experience points and levels in Gamma World, compared to D&D they were rather unimportant--in particular, characters do not get more HP when they gain levels, and most of a character's power comes from items ("lost technology" from the pre-apocalypse society) and mutations rather than from experience points.

The resemblance to FFL is striking--in particular, the "life leech" mutation is identical to a certain Mutant ability in FFL. I don't think Gamma World was ever published in Japan, but I've heard that Akitoshi Kawazu (game designer of both FF and FFL) used to import and play foreign RPGs, board games, and war games when he was in university, translating the rules into Japanese on his own.

It's also worth noting that a later edition of Gamma World added robots as a fourth playable character type... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.162.189.89 (talk) 05:41, 2 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:The Final Fantasy Legend/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Hello, I will be reviewing this article. Check back soon for a full review! CarpetCrawlermessage me 04:38, 6 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

GA pass[edit]

I have looked at the article, and have found no complaints, so I will pass the article. It is nicely written and its sourcing is excellent. Great job to everyone involved, and congratulations! Keep up the great work. CarpetCrawlermessage me 22:08, 8 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Errors[edit]

Although this article is thoroughly sourced, it has some serious problems. While reading it, I noticed several spelling and grammatical errors ("Sough"; "is contains"), inconsistencies ("Final Fantasy Legend" vs. "The Final Fantasy Legend"; "Saga" vs. "SaGa"), and factual errors (human statistics and HP can be pumped past 99 and 999, though mutant statistics are capped; shields allow characters to evade hits, not boost their defense; characters cannot hold 99 potions; new hearts can be bought late in the game and any downed character can be replaced with a new member, regardless of how many hearts they still have). I also found miscellaneous things that I found stylistically confusing, mostly related to references to the Japanese version of the game. For example, in the "Plot" subsection, it refers to "Millie" as one of the twin sisters in World 3. I don't know what she's called in the Japanese version, but as far as I'm aware, she's referred to only as "Mileille" in the English version. Since this article is ostensibly about the English version (and the translation of her Japanese name would be open to interpretation), I don't see why she should be called anything but "Mileille" in the article.

What leaped out at me most was this sentence: "Abilities gained slightly differ between male and female mutants; females initially gain stronger abilities faster compared to males." Although this "fact" included a citation (in Japanese), it is demonstrably false. According to this forum post, a mutant's growth is determined entirely by the random number generator, completely irrespective of gender. I removed the offending sentence, but I have to admit that I am part of the project in the link I provided, so I acknowledge that further edits on my part would probably violate Wikipedia's policies on original research and conflict of interest.

I edited as many problems as I felt comfortable with. What I left untouched, I generally chose based on the assumption that the Japanese version is radically different from the English one (which I doubt). If anyone with more experience with Wikipedia wants to fact-check the article and compare it against my suggested corrections above, I think doing so would greatly improve this article.64.55.111.22 (talk) 06:51, 24 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It's been ages since I worked on this article, though as far as the citation goes I can see it being false: it's the development team looking back on a game they haven't touched in years. It *might* have been something intended...but leaving the reference out without putting guesswork in instead is perfectly fine with wikipedia's policies. As far as the HP thing goes...I'll have to check that, it's been years but I'm fairly certain the game does only display 999. The rest I'll have to verify as well...a lot of it came from the english manual, which might explain why some bits were chosen the way they were. Give me a bit here.
Also, what were the other references to the Japanese version that confused you?--Kung Fu Man (talk) 00:53, 26 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Disambiguous[edit]

Would anyone have a problem with a disambiguous page (I know, i cant spell) that links to the FF nonstandard games? My thought was a page that collected Legends 1-3, Adventure, Mystic Quest, and perhaps their remakes? 74.128.56.194 (talk) 07:21, 17 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Title translation[edit]

The current translation is inaccurate. Because of the arrangement of the kanji, "toushi" would translate to "Tower Warrior / Gladiator" as a single noun. You can confirm this by checking the official translation provided by Square [here] in the game's Japanese guide book.

Furthermore, "in the Spirit World" is also incorrect. There aren't any prepositions anywhere in the title. The title simply reads "Hell" and "Tower Warrior / Gladiator." For it to mean what the current translation reads, the title would have to be more like, "Makai no Tou de no Senshi." ("Warrior(s) in the Tower of Hell")

For all intents and purposes, translations provided for English Wiki users should probably strive for literal accuracy, even if they don't sound eloquent. That said, I'm going to change this to a literal reading for now. 98.86.95.169 (talk) 04:44, 31 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

We've already been over this: that's the official title as provided by SE. Accurate or no, we have to cite what we have as an official source.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 03:31, 1 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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About boxart[edit]

@Andrzejbanas: I noticed you removed a rendition of the game's original cover. Which is all well and good since it was just a snippet of it, but it raises the question of whether this game should even be using the Western box art at all. The Japanese art is significantly more descriptive of the game's characters, and Ico has set a precedent where the Western art does not have to be used if the Japanese art has significantly more artistic merit. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 10:38, 14 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It is not whether it has more artistic merit or not, it's that there is no caption saying such a thing for a copywritten image. It needs context to use it to describe something that can't be illustrated by text. And there isn't any in the article. Andrzejbanas (talk) 15:50, 14 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Zx's question is more if the game should use the Japanese box art as it's more overall descriptive for the game instead of the western one in the infobox. I think this came up before, and the problem was the Japanese game has a drastically different name so it may cause some confusion.
This does make me consider it could be a good idea to bring up the Japanese box art as being far more descriptive of the game within the article's body, but then we'd have 3 fair use images in the article and that may still come across as excessive. What do you think @Andrzejbanas:?--Kung Fu Man (talk) 17:02, 14 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I would agree with you, but we should probably stick to the WP:VGIMAGES "Only one piece of identifying art should be present in the infobox, regardless of platform or regional differences. English-language art is preferred for identification; if no English-language option is available, then use art from the game's native language." Andrzejbanas (talk) 19:08, 14 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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