Talk:Thai cuisine/Archive 1

This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 1

I would like to

I would like to:

try to analyze the various influences on Thai food: Chinese, Malay, Indian, Lao, Burmese...
categorize dishes by method of preparation, e.g.

Yam; salads

Tom and kaeng; soup-like and curry dishes

Without coconut cream

Tom yam

Tom khloong

Kaeng som

Kaeng jued

With coconut cream, runny

Tom khaa

Kaeng phet...

Thick curries

Phanaeng

Khluk khlik

make a catalog of ingredients

Is anybody else planning on expanding this topic? Any suggestions before I start? -- DMaclKnapp (sig. added by Heron)

Sounds good. Perhaps you could also mention the social side of Thai food, e.g. the street vendors and markets, rarity of supermarkets, types of restaurant, meal times, etc. Don't forget the variety of dried snacks, and soft drinks. -- Heron

Ingredients and other Southeast Asian Cuisine

Great idea Heron. This article needs a list of Thai ingredients and comparisons to other foods from neighboring regions.

I'm no expert on Thai cuisine and am reluctant to start changing it. I just created an article on shrimp paste, but it could some help from someone with expertise. Onionhound 09:38, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

List of ingredients

I started a list but it was deleted. found a usefull link "asian vegetables":http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/proceedings1990/V1-387.html

A list of only three things looks rather bad. A short list is better put in sentences, while a longer list should be in a separate article: List of ingredients in Thai cuisine, for example. Mark ¹ 06:00, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Gang currys?

Any info on Gang Curry would be interesting. Evey type I have had has usually been a Coconut Milk based broth that has cooked meat in it, served with rice.

Well, that's pretty much all it is. You can get veggie versions, and slightly-different-tasting-differently-coloured ones, but they're much of a muchness. Henry ^Flower 23:33, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

You're describing curries like gaeng pet (red), gaeng massaman (yellow) and gaeng keow waen (green), but there are other types of gaeng that aren't coconut-based. For example, gaeng sabu is a fish curry flavoured with cloves. --Heron 10:56, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Many curries from the South don't have coconut milk. Examples include kaeng luang (yellow curry - a thin, sour, and spicy soup usually including bamboo shoots and fish) and kaeng pa (jungle curry - an extremely spicy stir-fry with a heavy dose of fresh green peppercorns). Patiwat 08:01, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Gaeng != Curry

It isn't technically accurate to translate "Gaeng" (or more accurately, Kaeng) into "curry". Most types of Kaeng in Thai cuisine do not contain curry powder - the only one that does is called "Kaeng Kari". Kaeng is a blanket term in Thai used for just about anything that is spicy or soupy - thus there are dry stir-fry Kaeng (e.g., Kaeng Pa), clear non-spicy soup Kaeng (e.g., Kaeng Jued), as well as spicy soup Kaeng (e.g., Kaeng Phed). "Curry" just doesn't do all of these terms justice. To clear any misconceptions, should some explanation of this be included in the article? Patiwat 08:08, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you mean by 'not accurate': curry is the word that is used in English for any spicy gaeng; in a Thai context that's what a curry is (and the western idea of spicy is a good deal broader than the Thai). There's no implication that curry powder is used. Henry ^Flower 17:05, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Taxonomy

In all the Thai restaurants I've been in (at least here in Chicago) there is a specific set of "Noodle Dishes" on the menu, usually including Lad nar Pad see ew Pad thai Wun sen and a couple of others. Then there is a separate section for curries, and a section for "entrees", like Neua pad prik. Perhaps we should divide our list of dishes in the same way? --DCo1 15:59, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Our list is still so short that it hardly seems worth it. It wouldn't do any harm, though, and it might encourage people to add to the list. Henry ^Flower 17:07, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Decadent?

Could someone please explain what is meant by the following sentence from the beginning of the main article? "Like Vietnamese food, Thai food is known for its decadent use of herbs and spices as well as fish sauce." What's so decadent? Acmthompson 16:16, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

No idea. I changed it to 'enthusiastic'. --Heron 17:42, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

meat and buddhism?

can anyone shed light on how meat dishes are popular in thailand, inspite of a large number of buddhists?

Having lived in Thailand for the past four years, and having asked many Thai people this same question, the general answer seems to be that "Thai people enjoy eating meat, and so that's what we do." They do not see this as something that needs to be observed.

Apparently Thai Buddhism is different than what you would consider "orthodox" Buddhism. After Buddhism moved into the area it syncretised with the local animistic religions that predated it. For example, Buddhism does not promote belief in a God or gods (or indeed any angelology), but the shrines to house spirits are outside every affluent house you see (and many not-so affluent too). There are many examples of this disparity between orthodox Buddhism and its Thai counterpart. They seem not to have a problem reconciling the two. A strict vegetarian diet may be reserved for what they consider the more zealous practitioners. I believe the monks may refrain from eating meat, but I'd have to double-check that to make sure.

I think "Thai people enjoy eating meat, and so that's what we do." pretty much sums it up. In major cities often people from other religions (often Muslims) will butcher the meat. When the fish are caught in nets the fishermen do no kill the fish, the fish decide to die. I guess it is their way of getting past the 'rules'. I am definitely not an expert on religion, does Buddhism forbid the eating of meat or just the killing of living creatures..little difference I know. Rakaom 21:37, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Not so little, see freegan. --Belg4mit 20:15, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

I guess I would start by asking what 'orthodox' Buddism is and where it is practised? Next I would ask your definition of what is or isn't a Buddhist. Next I would assume that your definition is greatly shaped by your (I'm assuming) Judeo Christian background. Buddhism is not a binding religion in the sense of you are either in or out. How strictly you adhere to the teachings of the Buddha does not affect your value as a Buddhist it simply determines your karma. Thais (and most other Buddhists) eat meat out of necessity not indulgence. Hunting, including sport fishing, is frowned upon as killing for pleasure but to killing for food is acceptable. On the monks - they don't intentionally eat meat but do eat the food that is offered to them as alms, if it has meat then they eat it.

The short answer is that Thai buddhism does not mandate vegetarianism, since it is a branch of Theravada buddhism. --203.152.114.104 01:52, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

On a related point, I know many Thais who avoid eating beef, and say that this is because they are Buddhist. When pressed for more information, they'll say it's derived from Chinese Buddhism, because "Chinese don't eat beef". This conflicts with what I know about Buddhism and the Chinese, so I'm trying to find out the source of the prohibition and the belief that it's from China- does anyone have more information? I suspect it's related to Hinduism, but can't find anything supporting this. Could we include some of this in the article? Thanks- DrHacky 01:28, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

A common justification is that buffaloes and cows are working animals involved in the production of rice (which is sacred)so eating them would be a sin. On the other hand, many people who claim not to eat beef only avoid it in stir fried dishes and curries (aharn darm sang)and are perfectly happy to eat noodle soup with stewed beef. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.157.142.152 (talk) 09:18, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

I think saying 'Orthodox' in Buddhism is a misnomer, because Buddhism isn't an inherently dogmatic religion like the others, and if anything, Therevada Buddhism is closer in many regards, especially in terms of Sangha rules and the Indian style rituals than other sects. Buddha never said that eating meat was sinful, and did discuss how it is impossible for those who live in arid areas and the high mountains to eat solely vegetation, but due to belief in ahimsa, the prevention of harming other things, many Buddhists refrain from meat. Chinese people who do not eat beef, do it because in the stories of Guan Yin, her father (when she was mortal) was reborn as a bull as karmic retribution for his attempt to kill or have Guan Yin killed. All in all, it's optional and up the person, not an institutionalised thing. Nintala (talk) 23:10, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Buddha himself ate meat. Chinese people do eat beef, however I have heard from several Chinese say they avoid beef as they have an allergy to it. Could it be that allergy to beef is more common in Chinese than Europeans? 86.161.56.118 (talk) 14:28, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

I agree with Nintala. Buddhism emerged from Hinduism in a manner similar to Christianity's emergence from Judaism, only without parallels to the Passover events that precipitated crucifixion and resurrection. Buddha took exception to the more extreme aspects of Hinduism and preached a "middle path" between that and just doing whatever. Where many Hindus otherwise living secular lives are strict vegetarians -- most of South India for example -- I can't think of a single Buddhist country that is predominantly vegetarian. Not Tibet, not Thailand, not Cambodia, not Laos, not Burma, not Bhutan, not northern Nepal and not Vietnam, China, Japan or Korea (although these four are only partly Buddhist anyhow). It wouldn't be too misleading to think of Buddhism as a kind of 'reform Hinduism'. Some Buddhists are vegetarians. Respecting animal life is certainly consistent with Buddhist doctrine. Nevertheless vegetarianism is not expected of the Buddhist rank-and-file. LADave (talk) 06:52, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

Not eating beef is due to the reverence that some Buddhists have for Guan Yin (Mae Kwan Im in Thai). Seen as a Bodhisattva in Chinese Mahayana Buddhism, due to the large Chinese presence in Thailand she is now also revered by many Thai Theravada Buddhists. - Takeaway (talk) 00:43, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Thai Language - Proper Names

Wikipedia's Writing Better Articles speaks to the proper method for encoding native spelling:

"English title terms with foreign origin can encode the native spelling and put it in parentheses. See, for example, I Ching (simplified Chinese: 易经; traditional Chinese: 易經; pinyin: yì jīng) or Sophocles (Greek: Σοφοκλης)."

Elsewhere: The native text is useful for researchers to precisely identify ambiguous spelling, especially for tonal languages that do not transliterate well into the Roman alphabet.

Also see:

- Thaimoss 23:02, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

(Gai) Kra Pow

I was quite surprised to find no article for this wonderful dish (also known as Gra Pow). I'm guessing this is supposed to be "Pad kaphrao"? Although there are no noodles in it. Someone may want to either write about the varying romanizations of Thai dish names, or provide alias redirects for them. --Belg4mit 20:06, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Clay's glossary in the external links does a good job of addressing this, though it should perhaps be featured more prominently, and the basic premise addressed. --Belg4mit 20:10, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Khai Jiew / Omelette

Suredeath, Reverted the (Khai Jiew (Thai: ไข่เจียว) - fried egg omlet, which may contain crab, minced meats, onions, garlic, and other vegetables; often eaten with Sriracha sauce) entry. Couple thoughts. First, why is Khai Jiew "just an omelette" versus an omelette being "just a 'western' version of Khai Jiew. No way to say what came first. Also, it is not prepared like omelettes are prepared. Omelettes are lightly pan fried, sometimes (depending on the pan) with a pat of butter, or even just a non-stick coating (e.g. "Pam"). Khai Jiew is all-but fried in oil, usually essentially floating on the surface of a pan of hot oil. And, as eaten by Thais, often served on rice, and frequently covered with the SriRacha hot sauce. So, I don't think it makes sense to remove this one as simply a duplicate of omelette. It is really not the same thing. - Thaimoss 21:26, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

The exact same thing is available in Chinese, Japanese cuisine. Hardly a Thai thing. Suredeath 21:54, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

I'm sure you've had a look at some of the other Cuisine pages. I note that the Cuisine of China page doesn't note this style of egg. The Cuisine of Japan page provides a glimpse (and link to) Omurice, but the notes and accompanying Omurice article provide some of the details about why this style is unique to Japan. So, perhaps what you could do that would add value to all three pages would be to provide some details on the differences in the specific "omelettes" of these three countries. I still do not agree that Khai Jiew is "just an omellete", and from my time living in Thailand, I recognize this as a common dish worth of mentioning in an article on Thai Cuisine. - Thaimoss 19:42, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

They don't include it because it is so ridiculously common. Give me a freaking break, it's an egg, fried in a cooking oil. I was born Thai, been one for 25 years, I don't give a damn about your time living in Thailand. YOU should be telling us why an egg cooked in commoner kitchen in East/Southeast Asia is all of the sudden unique to Thailand. It's not just Thai, chinese, Japanese. Any household in Lao, Vietnam, Cambodia, Malaysia, etc... have this.Suredeath 23:09, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Hey Suredeath, its not that big a deal. I was born American, been one for 42 years, and I actually DO give a damn about your time living in Thailand (I assume you live, or have lived, there). I'm not completely enamoured with the items on the Cuisine of the United States article, either; what with it starting out with a big picture of a cheeseburger, and the first section is entitled "problems with defining America Cuisine"; including references to Apple Pie, Chili Con Carne, General Tao's Chicken, (I could go on...). I don't look at this class of articles on Cuisine as having to describe exclusively indigenous, nor particularly special dishes. I've thought of these articles as providing a glimpse into the types and styles of foods that are typical of the country or region under discussion. Naturally, there will be "overlap", because culture mix, and tastes and history are shared. Khai Jiew, as you've said, is commonly available in Thailand. You actually called it "ridiculously common". I actually think that foods cooked in local "commoner kitchen[s]" would be exactly what an article would want to capture. Following your argument, we should also remove Khao pad gai (ข้าวผัดไก่) from this article, too. Look, I'm not trying to tell anybody anything; I didn't originally include the notation. - Thaimoss 00:29, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Article naming

As many of the cuisine articles have been being changed to the name of the country first as in French cuisine, Italian cuisine, Japanese cuisine, etc. I would like to rename this article Thailand cuisine in order to model the emerging norm of Wikipedia. We can have a redirect from Cuisine of Thailand to the renamed article then.--Chef Christopher Allen Tanner, CCC 17:42, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Dont you mean Thai cuisine instead of Thailand cuisine Suredeath 19:22, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I actually woke up this morining and realized that and meant to come on change that but didn't get a chance. Thanks for the note.--Chef Christopher Allen Tanner, CCC 21:19, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

What Thai foods are GMO and what ones are not?

This should be added to most food wiki entries, many people do not want to eat foods that have been genetically altered using ecoli bacteria and viruses like many of the us foods are already doing.

This is page is about cuisine. GMO has no place here.Suredeath (talk) 23:38, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Transliteration of the Thai names

All the Thai names in the article have now been transliterated according to the Royal Thai General System of Transcription. A useful website for transliterating Thai to English and visa versa is www.thai-language.com. - Takeaway (talk) 10:29, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Less subjectivity and LESS Anglo-globalisation PLEASE

It is pathetic to open a basic article like "Thai food" to find in the second paragraph of the article what an English speaker (English, North American, Australian, Canadian, it does not matter) thinks of the food. This is just TOO MUCH.

THAI FOOD IS THAI FOOD, and what an Australian person thinks of the foos should not be the second paragraph of an article about Thai Food.

Many editors use any chance to introduce anything that is Anglo.

Wikipedia is TERRIBLY biased and written from a western perspective that is not beneficial for itself. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.244.8.207 (talk) 00:25, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

This article is on the English language Wikipedia and as such it will be mainly read by Westerners. Having a Westerner (who has extensively, and in depth, studied Thai cuisine over many years) explain to a Western audience what Thai food is, seems only logical. - Takeaway (talk) 03:41, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

So I've added quotes from McDang, the pre-eminent Thai food authority in Thailand and a member of the Thai royal family himself. Happy now? Haleth (talk) 00:14, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 7 external links on Thai cuisine. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers. —^{cyberbot II}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 18:38, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to one external link on Thai cuisine. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20160125065635/http://thailand.prd.go.th/ebook/kitchen/content/ch5.html to http://thailand.prd.go.th/ebook/kitchen/content/ch5.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—^{cyberbot II}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 14:52, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

Krong Krang?

seems to be missing פשוט pashute ♫ (talk) 09:46, 6 June 2016 (UTC)

Also seems to be missing a few hundred other Thai dishes. ;)

This article should actually only be an introduction to Thai cuisine, mentioning only a few dishes. In my opinion, too many dishes already feature in this article. Some should actually be moved from here into List of Thai dishes. - Takeaway (talk) 13:54, 6 June 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 5 external links on Thai cuisine. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 11:15, 2 December 2017 (UTC)

Nuea listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Nuea. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. Paul_012 (talk) 14:40, 16 June 2019 (UTC)

not only laos and isaan eat sticky rice that is stereotype

https://www.silpa-mag.com/history/article_37750 southern and central thai eat sticky rice to Mon people like to eat sticky rice — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lalalulilalia (talk • contribs) 01:32, 10 March 2021 (UTC)