Talk:Symphony No. 4 (Schubert)

Liner note citations

I removed the liner note citation after I added the more specific Beethoven influences below. In general, I'm wary of liner notes because often the authors don't do their homework. It seemed to me that he just read the words "C minor" and "Tragic" and just assumed Beethoven and listed some orchestral C minor pieces by Beethoven assuming those were the influences. When I saw the conflicting claim from Brown that the introduction was modeled after Chaos, I compared the three pieces and the introduction to this symphony doesn't sound anything like the Coriolan Overture. Now, its true that Beethoven himself loved the Chaos overture and modeled several of his own introductions after it (Beethoven's own 4th is one example) but certainly not Coriolan. Ironically, there was a specific Beethoven C minor piece quoted at the beginning of the following Allegro (which Brown notes that Schubert must have recognized) but the liner notes missed it. Plus, I haven't seen mention that this symphony was designed to be specifically Beethovenian, other than the fact that any symphonist in 1816 owes a large debt to Beethoven. Schubert's Fourth is often noted to be "experimental" and critics have complained that its uneven... particularly the final two movements. Unfortunately, this often means that its not written about as much. I agree we need more references other than Brown.DavidRF (talk) 14:42, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

Personally, I hear Coriolan in the long C at the beginning, but that's maybe fishing for similarities. Certainly the minor-major trend reminds me of the Fifth, as does the fact that the keys of each movement match (except the Trio) - C minor, A flat, C minor, C major. I don't hear the resemblance to Op. 18 No. 4, personally, and I've performed that quartet, but again, maybe that's just me. (Unsigned) Ra56 (talk) 03:12, 2 February 2012 (UTC)