Talk:Super Soco

Copyrighted logo?

It's unclear where this logo was copied from, but I'm posting here on the basis that it is a copyrighted logo and was not created by the uploader @Inchiquin:; moreover, it cannot be hosted at Commons, to where it has been cross-wiki forwarded. I would argue it is not below the threshhold to be considered simple text and geographic shapes - even if it was, the upload details are still wrong. The company website shows a different logo, but the one used here can be seen in this Google search.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 00:28, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

• I now see there's another possible copyrighted image File:Full range of Super Soco motorbikes.jpg with the wrong upload details - not "own work".--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 01:03, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

I have now submitted this latter image for speedy deletion as a copyright violation. I can deal with the logo also, subject to your agreement, Inchiquin. Thank you.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 01:26, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

No worries, do what you think is best. That image with the bikes I uploaded by accident. I couldn't work out how to remove it. As for the logo, I pulled it from the company social media page. That was the first logo I uploaded on Wiki, and so I probably mangled the upload process. Let me know if there is another image that would be better to use. Inchiquin (talk) 02:28, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

OK thanks, not too easy unless someone has previous experience as there are a lot of variables. Only an admin can delete images once uploaded. I'll do it in due course, 2.30AM now and bedtime for me.--Rocknrollmancer (talk)

Thanks for the help with the logo, Rocknrollmancer. Inchiquin (talk) 00:21, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

Reliable sources

The following are what I consider to be reliable, non-churnalistic publisher-based sources having considerable longevity (the latter aspect possibly excepting practicalmotoring.com.au which I am unfamilar with).

https://practicalmotoring.com.au/motorbikes/reviews/super-soco-ts1200r-review/

https://www.mcnews.com.au/super-soco-electric-motorcycles-to-land-in-australia/

https://www.motorcyclenews.com/bike-reviews/super-soco/tc-max/2019/

https://www.motorcyclenews.com/bike-reviews/super-soco/cpx/2020/

https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/first-rides-tests/super-soco-review/

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/dec/17/super-soco-electric-motorbike-commuting-isnt-supposed-to-be-fun-review

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/jun/09/super-soco-cux-electric-scooter-huge-in-china-quick-easy-cheap-commuter

There are others, web-based visordown and rideapart.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 04:02, 31 December 2021 (UTC)

Thanks Rocknroll, I appreciate your efforts.

Unfortunately, this particular topic is very difficult to research, and many of the sources that populate the web on Super Soco are of questionable repute. You are basically unpicking a web of entities, Super Soco, the Chinese company, another company called Vmoto Soco, who have the distribution rights but also seem to be at loggerheads with the Chinese entity. At the very least, what can be ascertained from the respective company websites is that the two are selling a number of different vehicle models.

There are relationships with other motorcycle companies that add to the complexity: the most notable of these is that between Ducati and Vmoto Soco. The latter group also seems to have entered into a distribution agreement with an Indian company called Bird, who were to act as a vendor and distributor for their Super Soco models in India, as one website related:

...According to some reports, Vmoto has entered into an agreement with Bird Group to sell and market their electric scooters in India. In in the beginning, Bird Group will order 10,000 units of e-scooters for the Indian market. There are plans to order a smaller number of e-scooters to test the market.

Currently, the brand has a few e-scooters in their portfolio. So it is still not clear which products it plans to bring to India. We can expect all these scooters to come from China as a fully-built unit or can also be assembled in India like majority of the other e-scooters brands...''

https://www.bikewale.com/news/super-soco-electric-scooters-likely-to-make-india-debut/

It goes without saying that anything that is stated in these dime-a-dozen moto sites must be taken with a grain of salt, and often such assertions are frequently little more than hurried guesses from time-pressured freelance writers. Inchiquin (talk) 16:29, 26 August 2022 (UTC)

Article tag

It is surprising that, after three months, the 'undisclosed payment' tag on this article has not yet been removed.

My understanding is that the tag was placed on the article by one editor based on an assumption that another electrcic motorcycle company called Revolt was a distributor for Super Soco.

I have extensively researched the e-motorcycle industry, and I have never come across any solid evidence that Revolt is a distributor for Super Soco.

It is impossible to conclusively prove that Revolt is not a distributor: Revolt is a private company, and thus details of its operations are not public.

But even putting that aside, the argument that Revolt is a Super Soco distributor doesn't really make sense. Super Soco is a Chinese start up, whereas Revolt is an Indian company founded by Rahul Sharma, one of the wealthiest people in India.

Not only that, it is not particualrly difficult to find Indian moto dealers who are advertising Super Soco models for sale on their websites.

Curiously, there would seem to be more evidence suggesting that Revolt is more likely to be a competitor to Super Soco, rather than being in some kind of collaborative relationship.

It is worth noting that multiple posters have already questioned why there is 'undisclosed payment' tag hovering at the top of the article.

Inchiquin (talk) 06:30, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

@Inchiquin sorry for the delay. Let me add the logic behind the UPE/COI tag by pulling out few media articles which connects Revolt Motors with Super Soco and Vmoto -

The recently launched Revolt RV 400 is a clone of Super Soco Chinese electric bike,

Revolt RV 400: 5 things to know,

Revolt electric motorcycle for India is China’s Super Soco TS ?,

Could This Be Revolt‘s Next Electric Motorcycle For India?,

Revolt’s 53 MPH (85 km/h) budget electric motorcycle begins making deliveries - This one clearly mentions the coooperation between Revolt Motors and Super Soco.

Revolt RV 400 electric motorcycle receives over 2,500 pre-bookings. Check this sentence - "Revolt Motors has confirmed that Super Soco is one of its vendors".

Even a novice can identify and connect the dots. I know you guys worked in utmost coordination to canvass the last the AfD. Despite that fact, neither I went for a DRV nor opted for an ANI. But I guess it's time to bring in experts to assess your Afd gamification tactics. -Hatchens (talk) 05:36, 28 April 2022 (UTC)

Before I go to ANI... I would like to have your opinion on the links mentioned above. Of course, it would be pretty naive on my part to expect you and your buddy IDs to come clean. But still, everyone should get an opportunity to put forward their views in the best possible way. In the meantime, pinging Timtrent, HighKing, TheAafi and Praxidicae for further assessment. -Hatchens (talk) 05:43, 28 April 2022 (UTC)

Also pinging Celestina007 because they are the one nominated Vmoto for an Afd (in the past). So, I trust their expertise in deducing valuable insight from this conversation thread. -Hatchens (talk) 06:01, 28 April 2022 (UTC)

I have asked wholly uninvolved and respected editor to take a look at this. ANI does not always bring the admins with experience of determining UPE to the discussion. I think that is the best service I can do for you, for the article and for the creating editor. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 07:43, 28 April 2022 (UTC)

Thank you Timtrent. For me, ANI is always a last option. Apparently, I would like to stick with WP:AGF (in principle) and would always prefer to establish some sort of communication with the involved editors... to get their opinions and insights. But, this is nothing but a case of pathological lying, ignoring all stated facts, and create a atmosphere of denial-by-force so that one cannot and should not establish any connection between Revolt Motors, Super Soco and Vmoto. - Hatchens (talk) 08:22, 28 April 2022 (UTC)

@Hatchens I have taken a moment to do what no-one appears to have done thus far and asked @Inchiquin the formal paid editing question on their talk page, a question they will need to answer there. I appreciate your good faith being stretched way past its elastic limit over this.

I have flagged the PRNewswire references as primary sources. A cursory reference analysis on the rest suggests pure churnalism. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 08:30, 28 April 2022 (UTC)

In light of Hatchen's account being blocked from Wikipedia, I'm going to wind this up now. Inchiquin (talk) 13:28, 1 September 2022 (UTC)

CFMoto

FYI, I've noticed a number of attempts to publicise the above with redlinks in relation to their sponsorship of a KTM-based motorcycle racing team (Prüstel GP), even tough they are supposedly a motorcycle manufacturer (including electric) I've not seen any reliable source to attest to their actual input. As yet there is no UK article. --Rocknrollmancer (talk) 15:15, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

Here is an example of the determination to promote CFMoto under a specific heading, when it's been acknowleged as a KTM (KTM RC250GP, basically a racer anyone could buy).--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 16:17, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

Just found that the bike is a KTM RC4, ("CFMOTO’s Grand Prix equipment will be based on the Moto3 world championship winning KTM RC4 machinery") a works racer not a customer racer, but nontheless a KTM, not a CFMoto.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 16:43, 24 March 2022 (UTC)