Talk:Steam donkey

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Origin of name[edit]

The information I found suggests that the name donkey engine actually came from the shipping industry via John Dolbeer in 1881. The Loggers, pg 106 ISBN 0-8094-1527-5. I will edit accordingly if no reply or references are added. MDSNYDER 23:20, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Snapped Cables can kill?[edit]

Many stories surrounding the use of the steam donkey speak of men who were "cut in half" when cables snapped. Supposedly, operating the donkey was one of the most dangerous, and high-paying jobs on a logging operation. An episode on the Discovery Channel's "Mythbusters" explored this cable-snapping-myth, and the results of tests with pig carcasses suggest that a person cannot be cut in half with a cable. (This could be referenced if anyone can find a the episode's transcript.) I think it was still a dangerous job due to the fact that the boilers periodically exploded.

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Tsarevna (talk • contribs) 10:28, 20 July 2007.

Surely a cable-snap could kill a person, even if not 'cut in half'? EdJogg 13:51, 20 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately, Naval seamen and Merchant Marine Seamen will tell you that men have been sliced in half by snapping cables. 206.192.35.125 (talk) 16:10, 27 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

On Mythbusters, the steel cables usually made a "rope burn" on the dead pigs, but one did actually split the skin. It's quite feasable that a person could bleed out if a snapped cable split open an armpit or neck. Bear in mind this testing was done with cables only; it's well documented that snapped cables that fling the objects they were tied to often kill. (See the Disneyland accident with the ship-mooring cable.)

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Tsarevna (talk • contribs) 23:45, 21 July 2007.

Earlier mentions[edit]

I found a mention of a donkey-engine dating back to 1857: http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=9A02E2D9163CEE34BC4B51DFBF66838C649FDE Is 1881 the right date for when the engine was invented? Krupenin (talk) 11:24, 9 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This is quite correct. The article, from the New York Times of 23 Sept 1857, covers the sinking of the steamship SS Central America, and the captain's statement (column 1) mentions the use of donkey engines for pumping the bilges etc.

Further investigation reveals that Dolbeer's patent was for a "logging engine", and the patent does not mention "donkey engine" at all. Indeed, the patent doesn't really cover the steam engine/boiler part of the contraption at all, just the arrangement of pulleys (etc) for guiding the cables, and the skids for moving the thing around. (I'll modify the article to suit in due course.)

This is rather worrying, as it suggests that the article is completely off-track -- we should have articles for logging engine and donkey engine, with "steam donkey" being a redirect to whichever turns out to be the most appropriate term.

EdJogg (talk) 08:38, 8 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Historians and experts who use the machine refer to the device as a steam donkey. See Fort Humboldt related articles which refer to the "Dolbeer Steam Donkey." The use of the term in innumerable locations and sources is irrefutable. Norcalal 08:44, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Equally irrefutable is that the patent was for a "logging engine" and that the word 'donkey' is not mentioned. I am quite happy for this article to retain its title, and for logging engine to redirect here, but I think that donkey engine should be a separate article covering the wider application of the term. This article should concentrate on the machine used for logging.

EdJogg (talk) 09:13, 8 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Steam donkey invention site[edit]

"John Dolbeer, a founding partner of the Dolbeer and Carson Lumber Company in Eureka, California, invented the logging engine in August 1881. The patent (number: 256553) was issued April 18, 1882."

As the partner in Dolbeer Carson IN Eureka, CA in 1881-82 where else would the gentleman have invented the device than in his own company? There is an editor that wants to divorce the Steam engine from its historic development in the Redwood Forests of Humboldt County. That would be inappropriate. It was precisely the vast size of these trees and terrain in the properties of Dolbeer Carson IN HUMBOLDT COUNTY that led to the necessity of the device. The categorization of the device stays as the site and situation of the device is pertinent to its development and use. You will need to prove that it was NOT invented there (not possible) to remove the category of Humboldt County, California. This is not a purely engineering article. The location of the device is quite pertinent. Norcalal (talk) 16:35, 15 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The City of Eureka website History of Eureka, California - Timeline of Historically Significant Events and Dolbeer steam donkey and Shay locomotive change the face of logging both show the invention of the steam donkey in Eureka in 1882 (related to the granting of the patent) but actually it was invented the previous year. More to come. Norcalal (talk) 17:02, 15 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I've refined the category to Eureka, as that is more pertinent than the one you insisted on using. I still think it inappropriate to include a specific location category on a generic equipment article. Time, and other editors, however, will tell if I'm right...

EdJogg (talk) 18:37, 15 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Train Cars[edit]

If someone can find some information, the article should include discussion of how logging crews generally moved steam donkeys off of train cars, and how they moved the steam donkey across a logging area. Many logging camps existed alongside main railroad lines. Steam-donkeys were brought by railroad flatcars. Marc S. 206.192.35.125 (talk) 16:07, 27 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

terminology[edit]

The article is missing one important word. The steam donkey is a steam engine which powers a WINCH!!! The word WINCH is missing. In todays era, you find Winches on every marine vessel. They are usually powered by hydraulics, which includes an electric motor, which powers a hydraulic pump. Im not certain of the current logging use. Marc S. 206.192.35.125 (talk) 16:14, 27 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I'd understood that the original "Donkey" engine, as used on board ship, was a corruption of the name of David Donkin. Donkin started work in 1840. in 1876 his son, Geroge, went into partnership with Bryce Gray Nichol (Donkin and Nichol) and specialised in ship's steering gear.^[1] After Nichol's death the company became Donkin and Company Ltd. They were based in Newcastle-upon-Tyne from 1879 until 1977 and specialised in "steering gear, deck machinery and associated products".^[2] Martin of Sheffield (talk) 21:31, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

For the use of "donkey" to refer to a ship's engine see Arthur Ransome.^[3]

References

^ "Donkin and Co., Newcastle". Grace's Guide to British Industrial History. 2 December 2019. Retrieved 12 September 2022.
^ "History of Clarke Chapman". 2005. Retrieved 12 September 2022.
^ Ransome, Arthur (October 1932). Peter Duck. London: Jonathon Cape. p. 42. Retrieved 24 November 2022. "You'll have time now," said Peter Duck. "Skipper and I'll be a minute or two, what with all the warps to shift and the little donkey to get a-going." "What little donkey?" asked Titty. "Sailorman's name for the engine," said Peter Duck. "Engines and donkeys is all one. One day they'll pull and another day they won't, do what you will with them."

Applications besides logging and maritime left ill-defined[edit]

It's mentioned that the steam donkey was used for purposes other than just hauling logs, but not even a fleeting mention is given to what role the machine played in any of these other industries (with the exception of its usage aboard ships). I could imagine how a powered winch would have been useful in a mine (moving minecarts or elevators for one), but the article doesn't give anything concrete. Does anyone have any sources about the role the steam donkey played in mines and other industries? Mordekai99 (talk) 19:59, 2 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

[1] "Donkin and Co., Newcastle". Grace's Guide to British Industrial History. 2 December 2019. Retrieved 12 September 2022.

[2] "History of Clarke Chapman". 2005. Retrieved 12 September 2022.

[3] Ransome, Arthur (October 1932). Peter Duck. London: Jonathon Cape. p. 42. Retrieved 24 November 2022. "You'll have time now," said Peter Duck. "Skipper and I'll be a minute or two, what with all the warps to shift and the little donkey to get a-going." "What little donkey?" asked Titty. "Sailorman's name for the engine," said Peter Duck. "Engines and donkeys is all one. One day they'll pull and another day they won't, do what you will with them."

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