Talk:Shub-Niggurath/Archive 1

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Archive 1

Outer God vs. Great Old One

I'm pretty certain that Shub-Niggurath is widely considered an Outer God, not a Great Old One. Call of C'thulhu and most of its variants have it this way, and they tend to shape the general opinion on these things. So, is there any source for Shub-Niggurath as a Great Old One and not an Outer God? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.178.146.98 (talk) 15:43, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

People of Sarnath as worshipers

An anon user recently requested a citation for a factoid that stated that the people of Sarnath are worshipers of Shub-Niggurath. The best I can provide is Daniel Harms' The Encyclopedia Cthulhiana (vol. 2), which was the source I used when I wrote the two sections under Shub-Niggurath#Cult. While, to the best of my knowledge, Lovecraft did not explicitly connect the people of Sarnath to Shub-Niggurath, Sarnath nonetheless does have a life outside HPL's works (such as in pastiches and role-playing games). In the entry for "Sarnath" in The Encyclopedia Cthulhiana, Harms says that Sarnath also appears in the novel Prey (New York, NY: Leisure Books, 1999. ISBN 0-585-29222-1; ISBN 0-843-94633-4.) by Graham Masterton. Perhaps the connection is made there.
-,-~^R'lyehRising~-,- 18:13, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

"Notebook..Deserted House"

I thought that "Notebook..Deserted House" featured a shoggoth, not Shub-Niggurath. I would like clarification as to how this is associated with Shub-Niggurath, as the postal worker said it was a shoggoth as well. The preceeding unsigned comment by 71.30.238.155 08:10 14 May 2006

I believe the creatures were established as "Dark Young of Shub-Niggurath" by the Call of Cthulhu role-playing game, since Shub-Niggurath figures in the story.
,-~^R'lyehRising~-, 13:00, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
- It makes almost zero sense for the 'Deserted House' entity to be a shoggoth. It's in a story about Shub-Niggurath, it's nowhere near an Elder Thing site, and it's absolutely nothing whatsoever like a shoggoth (shoggoths being mutable slimeballs and 'cogieres of spheres'). What do we accept, the panicked word of some postman or the actual descriptions in the story? 59.167.217.179 04:03, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

We should bear in mind that a shoggoth is a fictional creature, and may vary considerably from one writer's imagination to another's. If a creature is called a shoggoth in a story, then for the purposes of the story that's what it is, regardless of whether it resembles depictions of shoggoths in other fictional works. Nareek 04:25, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Alone in the Dark

I'm pretty sure, the Shub-Niggurath was also mentioned in the old "Alone in the Dark" game.

And you would be right. If memory serves me right, the game makes a connection between the Levantine goddess Derketo (also used by Robert E. Howard!) and Shub-Niggurath. Wasn't the house named after her? Awakeandalive1 21:47, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Quake end boss

I tried putting this to the article, but User:Nareek removed it ("What Shub-Niggurath looks like is a matter of interpretation"). Anyway, here's my reasoning, bear in mind that I'm not an expert of Cthulhu mythos by any means: almost everywhere else, Quake end boss, called Shub-Niggurath in the game, is often said to resemble more of Dark Young than Shub-Niggurath herself; one to say that is Wikipedia article Quake, which states "The creature's looks are based on a Dark Young rather than Shub-Niggurath herself; it's simply not large enough." So, because I'm not an expert, I have to ask: which article is right? Would be very nice to not have contradictions here - and this matter really needs some footnotes on Quake article's side... --wwwwolf (barks/growls) 22:55, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Shub-Niggurath is never described in Lovecraft's fiction, and entities that are described seem to take on a variety of forms, so it's hard to say that a representation of Shub-Niggurath does or doesn't resemble her. In general, Wikipedia should avoid treating fictional creations as if they were real--as if there were a real thing that different fictions can be compared to and judged as either right or wrong. See Wikipedia:Writing about fiction. Nareek 23:03, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but that doesn't convice me. We've always portrayed the Dark Young exactly as the Quake boss, I think there is no point debating that.

Quake is a game that incorporates some of Lovecraft's work. Unless they resurrected Lovecraft from the dead & got his opinions (or are directly quoting the man himself), any descriptions that any of the Quake creators have of Shub-Niggurath have are only applicable to their games. They should be used as an example of how it could be interpreted, but not as a definative icon of how SN would appear. Tokyogirl79 (talk) 12:13, 19 April 2008 (UTC)Tokyogirl79

DONT TALK ABOUT QUAKE! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.142.164.32 (talk) 16:55, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Proper pronunciation of Shub-Niggurath

I was afraid to guess at how to pronounce the "Niggurath" part of the name (for what I think is an obvious reason). Can someone please clarify how to say Shub-Niggurath?

I have always pronounced it as nig-you-roth. I wouldn't be so worried about phonetic similarities to the wretched slur.Brian Schlosser42 19:46, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

I don't know that Lovecraft ever indicated an "official" pronunciation. I pronounce it SHOOB niGOOrath, though I wouldn't claim that's the way it ought to be pronounced. I wouldn't be surprised if the resemblance to "nigger" was intended by Lovecraft, who had a cat named "Nigger-Man" and who seemingly had race and sex and fear rather mixed up in his mind. Nareek 20:57, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

I've been pronouncing it nig-gore-ath. I guess no one really knows the exact way.BanditmanEXE 7:50, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I always said "SHOOB-nig-goor-AHTH" because it looks like it could have Hebraic, Syriac or Mesopotamian origins. Awakeandalive1 04:34, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Interpretations?

In an effort to head off an edit/revert war, I'd like to see if we can get more interpretations or commentaries for that section. So far it really just seems like a "Robert M. Price's speculations about the origins of the name" section and not only would that be a very unwieldy title, but it makes for a somewhat jarring and arbitrary inclusion in the article. He might be a prominent Lovecraft critic/historian but there are plenty of others out there and including him alone without any explanation of his relevance only makes sense to people already familiar with him. It feels like it belongs in a "trivia" section as is, and we can do better. Awakeandalive1 04:34, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Similarities to "Shibboleth"?

I am not experienced in editing wikipedia entries (I don't want to do it wrong), so I'm just asking here - Would it be worth mentioning the audible similarity to the obscure word Shibboleth? (link - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shibboleth)

Maybe i'm just drawing connections from coincedence, but i find it interesting that this existing word was sometimes used to describe "a word whose pronunciation identifies its speaker as not being a member of a particular group."

Also similar to the Lovecraft invention "Shoggoth." Worth mentioning in the article? or likely unrelated? (WarrenEBB (talk) 23:50, 4 November 2009 (UTC))

Other Writers - Charles Stross

Shub-Niggurath is at the center of Charles Stross' 2013 novelette Equoid.

(Spoilers Ahead)

The horror is first mentioned in a fictitious secret letter written by H. P. Lovecraft himself:

"People who with the best will in the world would take in & nurture at their rosy breasts the suckling horror that in my fictions I have named Shub-Niggurath, the spawning goat of a thousand young, a shuddering pile of protoplasmic horror that mindlessly copulates with itself and, spurting, squirting, licking ... swollen membrum & vulvae, inseminates with sucker-adorned tentacles (each cup enfolding the horror of a barbed, venomous hook with which to tear the flesh to which it adhered) the inflamed orifices & lubricious, pulsing cysts from which the abnormal spawn gushes in ropy streams of hideous liquor"

Later, the protagonist battles the beast directly:

"Your last worker is on its way home to visit, carrying your last Renfield. But it’s not going to be allowed to get here, Shubby."

I think this qualifies Charles Stross for an entry in the Other Writers list.

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Shub-Internet

I wish I could think of a good way to tie this in. In Popular Culture just wouldn't work...

http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/S/Shub-Internet.html

--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 19:58, 9 November 2017 (UTC)