Talk:Second government of Pedro Sánchez

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Requested move 20 August 2020[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. —usernamekiran (talk) 23:34, 31 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]


– As per WP:COMMONNAME (with the issue of recognizability being the most important here), WP:NATURAL and WP:PRECISE, with the due required respect to WP:NCCAPS and the WP naming convention on government agencies which, while not of direct application (as these are not proper government departments or agencies), can serve as a general guideline for clarification.

As a result, the proposal is to change the titles of the aforementioned Spanish national governments to the "[Ordinal number] government of [the prime minister's common name]" format and capitalized with respect to WP:NCCAPS, in the way that has been requested. In the event that only one government was formed by any given person (such as Leopoldo Calvo-Sotelo) then no ordinal would be required. Impru20talk 00:23, 20 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support. XYZ I, ABC II, etc, appear to be royal names. © Tbhotch™ (en-3). 00:43, 20 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I consider it unnecessarily long. I would prefer a shorter title such us "First González government, Second..." and in the case of Calvo-Sotelo just "Calvo-Sotelo government".TheRichic (Messages here) 08:52, 20 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@TheRichic: I know and I thought of it as an alternative choice, but then it comes the issue of the multiple surname system in Spanish-speaking countries and in many heads of government in the Spanish-speaking world using fairly-common surnames ("Fernández", "Sánchez", "González"). A system like that has been in practice (albeit unofficially) for some time for regional governments, and it's somewhat chaotic: Second Susana Díaz government, Díaz Ayuso government, Third Fernández Vara Government and Fernández Mañueco Government (note that I moved these ones last year ago from their original Third Guillermo Fernández Government and Alfonso Fernández Government titles, which were even harder to recognize), González Government (Community of Madrid), Javier Fernández government... disambiguation is required most of the time, but its application is unconsistent: sometimes the name is used, sometimes the second surname is added, sometimes the place is preferred... and that syntax only makes the overall picture look messy.
The proposal I made attempts to avoid such trauma for Spanish national governments by always using the (full) common name of the officeholder ("Pedro Sánchez", not "Sánchez" or "Pedro Sánchez Pérez-Castejón"), while reminding that this is still a government-related topic, meaning that clarity and naturalness should blend well with a feeling of institutionality and professionality. The major sacrifice comes on the length, true, but that's not a major issue for government-related topics as per WP:NCGAL and, ultimately, advantages on disambiguation make this choice far superior. After all, we already have names such as Cabinet of Donald Trump (not "Trump cabinet"), Government of the 32nd Dáil (not "32nd Dáil Government"), Second cabinet of Geir Haarde (not "Second Haarde cabinet"), XXI Constitutional Government of Portugal (not "Portuguese XXI Constitutional Government") and so on. And still, it's shorter than other proposals that could be thrown (it should be noted that Arias Navarro II Government was originally named as 1st Government under the restored Monarchy of Spain, which is both similar in lenght or even longer and not precise enough as the proposal made, since there was another widely-known Restoration of the Monarchy in Spain in 1874/1875 and a first government under it). Impru20talk 10:04, 20 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support as proposed. It's fair to say that the current titles are broken English. I concur with Impru20 that having full prime minister names makes it sufficiently unambiguous and precise without sacrificing much of conciseness. No such user (talk) 14:30, 20 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I have added some more articles of new creation on Spanish governments. As a matter of convenience, those have been created under the old format since I didn't feel it was right to name them using the newly-proposed scheme with this RM still ongoing. However, their fate should obviously be the same as that of the other articles, with the same arguments applying. Impru20talk 23:44, 27 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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