Talk:Royal necropolis of Byblos/GA1

GA Review[edit]

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Reviewer: AirshipJungleman29 (talk · contribs) 17:00, 24 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I'll take this review. AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 17:00, 24 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@AirshipJungleman29 Thank you for taking the time to do this. el.ziade (talkallam) 10:36, 25 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

Is it well written?
A. The prose is clear and concise, and the spelling and grammar are correct:

B. It complies with the manual of style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation:
Is it verifiable with no original research?
A. It contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline:

B. All in-line citations are from reliable sources, including those for direct quotations, statistics, published opinion, counter-intuitive or controversial statements that are challenged or likely to be challenged, and contentious material relating to living persons—science-based articles should follow the scientific citation guidelines:

C. It contains no original research:

D. It contains no copyright violations nor plagiarism:
Is it broad in its coverage?
A. It addresses the main aspects of the topic:

B. It stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style):
Is it neutral?
It represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each:
Is it stable?
It does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute:
Is it illustrated, if possible, by images?
A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content:

B. Images are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:
Overall:
Pass or Fail:

Source spot check[edit]

@Elias Ziade:, the sources you have provided appear to be reliable. However, page numbers are needed for certain citations: numbers 13, 100 (which cites page 2166, which isn't an option), and 102.

Citation#13 is a digital copy, I will add the entry location.

Citation#100 - Done

Citation#102 - Done

Since my French is not that great, could I ask you to provide the relevant quote and a translation from these ten citations:

5: Huss 1985, p. 561.
20: Dussaud 1956, p. 9.
21: D. 1921, pp. 333–334.
42: Montet 1928, pp. 145–146.
48: Montet 1928, pp. 152–153.
52: Dussaud 1924, p. 143.
74: Montet 1928, p. 230.
87: Pottier 1922, pp. 298–299.
91: Montet 1928, p.220
102: Lehmann 2015

for sure, please see the below table

Citation #	Original text	English translation
5 Huss 1985, p. 561.	The book is in German, however the citation is from the book's annex.	The entry reads: Byblos (Gbl) 6⁸. 514²²
20 Dussaud 1956, p. 9.	On doit au Général Gouraud d'avoir institué en Syrie et au Liban, qu'il administrait en qualité de Haut-Commissaire, un Service des Antiquités dont il confia la direetion à un Athénien expérimenté, Joseph Chamonard ... Dès le début J. Chamonard avait décidé de céder rapidement sa charge à un orientaliste. M. Charles Virolleaud fut choisi pour lui succéder; il s'acquitta avec zèle de ses fonctions du 1er octobre 1920 au 1er octobre 1929. ... L'action du Service des Antiquités, combiné avec les missions archéologiques organisées par le gouvernement français, se mesure aujourd'hui par de grandes découvertes, celles de Byblos, d'Ugarit et de Mari, pour ne citer que les plus importantes. Les découvertes de Byblos ont été la pierre de touche de la haute antiquitéé à laquelle remonte la civilisation cananéenne.	We owe to General Gouraud to have instituted in Syria and Lebanon, which he administered as High Commissioner, a Service of Antiquities whose direction he entrusted to an experienced classicist, Joseph Chamonard ... From the beginning J. Chamonard had decided to give up his office quickly to an orientalist. Mr. Charles Virolleaud was chosen to succeed him; he fulfilled his duties with zeal as of October 1, 1920 until October 1, 1929. ... The action of the Antiquities Service, combined with the archaeological missions organized by the French government, is measured today by great discoveries, those of Byblos, Ugarit and Mari, to mention only the most important. The discoveries of Byblos were the touchstone of the high antiquity to which the Canaanite civilization is dated.
21 D.R 1921, pp. 333–334.	A la date du 16 mars 1921, M. P. Montet, professeur d'égyptologie à lr'Université de Strasbourg, adressait à M. Clermont-Ganneau une lettre dans laquelle il lui exposait la découverte de bas-reliefs égyptiens faite par lui à Byblos, lors de sa mission de 1919(Comptes rendus de l'Acad. des inscrip., 1921, pp. 158 et suiv. ; voir Syria, 1921,p. 263). M. Clermont-Ganneau saisit aussitot de la question l'Académie des inscriptions qui décida de prendre à sa charge les frais d'une exploration méthodique du terrain où devaient se cacher les restes d'un temple égyptien. M. P. Montet fut choisi pour conduire ces recherches. Arrivé le 17 octobre à Beyrouth, M. P. Montet pratiquait aussitot à Byblos, au sud de la tour élevée par les Croisés, des sondages qui l'amenèrent, entre 3 et 4mètres de profondeur, au contact de dalles en désordre.	On March 16, 1921, M. P. Montet, professor of Egyptology at the University of Strasbourg, addressed a letter to M. Clermont-Ganneau in which he explained the discovery of Egyptian bas-reliefs made by him at Byblos, during his mission of 1919 (Comptes rendus de l'Acad. des inscrip., 1921, pp. 158 et seq.; see Syria, 1921, p. 263). M. Clermont-Ganneau immediately took up the question with the Académie des inscriptions, which decided to cover the costs of a methodical exploration of the terrain where the remains of an Egyptian temple were to be hidden. Mr. P. Montet was chosen to lead this research. Arriving in Beirut on October 17, Mr. P. Montet immediately carried out soundings in Byblos, south of the tower built by the Crusaders, which brought him to the contact of disordered slabs at a depth of 3 to 4 meters.
42 Montet 1928, pp. 145–146.	Le puits II est moins profond que le premier (pl. LAAV ot LAAAI, 1), mais, comme le banc de rocher s'amincit encore vers le nord, on n'a pu éviter d'atteindre la couche d'argile. Le plafond de la hambre n'est pas horizontal. Il s'abaisse du sud au nord, co qui fait que la paroi nord n'a qu'un mètre de haut, tandis que la plus grande hauteur, au centre, est de 3 50. Les carriers ont ét obligés de suivre le sens du rocher. Un mur d'un seul rang de blocs simplement posés l'un sur l'autre retenait la terre du puits, mais il n'a pas garanti la chambre contre les infiltrations.	Shaft II is shallower than the first one (pl. LAAV ot LAAAI, 1), but, as the rock bench thins out again towards the north, one could not avoid reaching the clay layer. The ceiling of the chamber is not horizontal. It slopes down from south to north, so that the northern wall is only one meter high, while the greatest height, in the center, is 350. The quarrymen were forced to follow the direction of the rock. A wall of a single row of blocks simply laid one on top of the other retained the earth of the shaft, but it did not guarantee the chamber against infiltration...
48 Montet 1928, pp. 152–153.	...il est long de 3m 95 et large de 3m 05, mais au-dessus de la porte on a taillé dans les parois ouest et sud deux banquettes, à partir desquelles le puits s'élargit un peu. Lorsque T'orifice eut été complètement dégagé. je remarquai que la paroi Sud était masquée par de gros blocs formant un mur régulier, épais de plus d'un metre (fig. 66 et pl. L.XXX), qui remplissait à lui seul le tiers du puits...	...it is 3.95 meters long and 3.05 meters wide, but above the doorway two benches have been cut into the western and southern walls, from which the shaft widens a little. When the hole was completely cleared, I noticed that the southern wall was masked by large blocks forming a regular wall, more than a meter thick (fig. 66 and pl. L.XXX), which alone filled a third of the well...
52 Dussaud 1924, p. 143.	Voici le texte du graffite d'après une copie (fig. 3) et une photographie (fig. 4) prises par M. Montet: [Phoenician Text] Avis, Voici Ta perte (est) ci-dessous.	Here is the text of the graffiti from a copy (fig. 3) and a photograph (fig. 4) taken by M. Montet: [Phoenician Text] Beware, here is your loss (is) below.
74 Montet 1928, p. 230.	... gauche, le roi est assis sur un trône devant une table chargée de provisions. Le trone est porté par un sphinx ailé à tête de femme, qui a le corps et les pattes d'un lion. Le roi est vêtu d'une longue robe à manches bouffantes. Un bandeau lui couvre le front. Ses pieds reposent sur un triple étage de coussins. De la main gauche il tient une fleur de lotus; avec I'autre il va porter å ses lèvres une coupe.	On the left, the king is seated on a throne in front of a table loaded with offerings. The throne is carried by a winged sphinx with a woman's head, which has the body and the legs of a lion. The king is dressed in a long robe with puffed sleeves. A headband covers his forehead. His feet rest on a triple layer of cushions. With his left hand with his left hand he holds a lotus flower; with the other he carries a cup to his lips.
87 Pottier 1922, pp. 298–299.	Fragment du bassin d'argent à décor mycénien.- Dès la première présentation des dessins à l'Académie, il était facile de diagnostiquer que la trouvaille ne pouvait pas appartenir à l'époque saïte ou gréco-égyptienne, comme on se l'était denmandé tout d'abord. Un fragment de pièce d'argenterie, par le seul aspect de son décor mycénien, y dénonçait la haute antiquité de l'ensemble; on était amené tout de suite à remonter au second millénaire. Ce rebord de grand bassin, orné d'un lacis de spirales exécutées au repoussé (fig. 5, 11 et pl. LXIV), offre une étroite parenté avec certains spécimens de la vaisselle précieuse déposée dans les tombes des princes de Mycènes, en particulier avec une enochoé en or (fig. 9) et un morceau de vase d'albâtre du IVe tombeau ).	Fragment of a silver basin with Mycenaean decoration - From the first presentation of the drawings to the Academy, it was easy to diagnose that the find could not belong to the Saite or Greco-Egyptian period, as was first thought. A fragment of silverware, by the only aspect of its Mycenaean decoration, denounced the high antiquity of the whole; one was immediately led to go back to the second millennium. This edge of large basin, decorated with a lace of spirals carried out with the repoussé (fig. 5, 11 and pl. LXIV), is closely related to some specimens of precious tableware deposited in the tombs of the Mycenaean princes, in particular to a gold enochoe (fig. 9) and a piece of alabaster vase of the IVth tomb).
91 Montet 1928, p.220	... mais dans les ruines du palais d'Aménophis IV à Tell-el-Amarna, Fl. Petrie a trouvé une grande quantité de tessons de poterie qui sont tout à fait comparables à ceux qui viennent d'ètre énumérés". Ils offrent tantôt de larges bandes noires Ou brunes, qui divIsent la paunse en plusieurs zones que partagent ensuite des raies verticales, tantôt des cercles concentriques isolés ou en série. La forme des anses, petites et à peine séparées du vase, est identique. Rien ne s'oppose donc à ce que tous les fragments recueillis dans le haut du puits V soient considérés comme contemporains et datant du Nouvel Empire.	... but in the ruins of the palace of Amenophis IV at Tell-el-Amarna, Fl. Petrie found a large quantity of pottery shards that are quite comparable to those just listed. They offer sometimes broad black, or brown bands, which divide the paunse into several zones that are then shared by vertical stripes, sometimes isolated concentric circles or in series. The shape of the handles, small and hardly separated from the vase, is identical. There is therefore no reason why all the fragments collected in the upper part of Shaft V should not be considered as contemporary and dating to the New Kingdom.
102 Lehmann 2015 p.178	Nach alledem kann von einem Sohn Aḥīrōms mit Namen Ittobaal jedenfalls keineRede mehr sein.Vielmehr hießder Sohn, welcher Aḥīrōm in dem Sarkophag zurletzten Ruhe bestattete,PulsibaaloderPilsibaal.	After all this, there can be no talk of a son of Aḥīrōm named Ittobaal. Rather,the son who buried Aḥīrōm in the sarcophagus to his final rest was called Pulsibaal orPilsibaal.

If all is good, I will assume good faith for the rest. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 10:57, 25 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Spelling and grammar[edit]

Spelling and grammar are generally good. The biggest problem is capitalisation, which is inconsistent. I will give all examples I find below, in addition to other corrections. If I 'incorrectly correct', so to speak, feel free to advise me.

Lead[edit]

Capitalisation

"known in Antiquity"
"ancient Byblos" vs "Ancient Byblos"
"ornate Khopesh sickle swords"

Done el.ziade (talkallam) 21:42, 26 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Other issues

"serving vessels.The graves"
"were sealed-off" - no hyphen necessary.
"some of the graves, these were built" - "which were"?
"survived into modern times, the burial chambers that did not" connective needed.
"one of five epigraphs known Byblos royal inscriptions" ??? wording seems to be very muddled ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 11:14, 25 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

And Done el.ziade (talkallam) 21:42, 26 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Historical background[edit]

Capitalisation

"the canaanite Gubal."
"fall of the Old kingdom."
"In 1725 BC, The Egyptian delta"
" the Gebalite King Rib-Hadda"

Done el.ziade (talkallam) 12:53, 27 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Other issues

"and became a major trade center with population centers in Mesopotamia, Anatolia, Crete, and Egypt." unclear. Do you mean trade center with links to population centers, or trade center with diasporan population centers?

No, not with the diaspora. They established trade with other cities in the Western Asian and Mediterranean cities. I will try to clarify this. el.ziade (talkallam) 12:53, 27 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

"early on" - precisely?

You're right it's not precise and redundant because Egyptian hegemony was established during the Old Kingdom. el.ziade (talkallam) 12:53, 27 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

"and it was once more" --> it came once more?

Yes! thanks. I wish I could 'think' in English lol el.ziade (talkallam) 12:53, 27 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Excavation history[edit]

Capitalisation

"two long trenches dug; The trenches"
"High commissioner General Henri Gouraud"
"Service of Antiquities in Lebanon" is sometimes uncapitalised

Done el.ziade (talkallam) 12:53, 27 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Other issues

"Strabo identified Byblos as a city situated on a hill some distance away from the sea." maybe cite the ancient text?
"Pierre Montet, was selected to head the excavations; he arrived at Beirut on 17 October 1921." First name already given, so unneeded; comma unnecessary, semicolon also unnecessary in such a short sentence — connective will do.
"Charles Virolleaud, who was then the head of the newly created Lebanese service of antiquities," you've already said the latter part, and first name is again unneeded.

Done el.ziade (talkallam) 12:53, 27 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Location[edit]

Capitalisation

"Located 42 kilometres (26 mi) North of Beirut"

Other issues

"the higher seaside promontory summit" — unclear, describe precise location in terms of geological features you have already established.

Done el.ziade (talkallam) 12:53, 27 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Description[edit]

Issues

"Ancient looters broke into" --> had broken into

Done

For dimensions, see Convert multiple dimensions

Done where applicable

"The west wall, which isolated it from the exterior seaside cliff collapsed during a landslide on 16 February 1922." You've already established the landslide and the date, so "The west wall... had collapsed during the landslide."

Good one!el.ziade (talkallam) 12:53, 27 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

" The opening lead" --> leads

Done el.ziade (talkallam) 12:53, 27 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I assume each tomb has a single well associated with it, and so Tomb I is next to Well I, Tomb II has Well II, etc. Make this clear.

Good point, I added this detail in the lead.

Note c — is the French quote really needed?

The French scholar made an observation that was later contested. I prefer to include quotes in such instances. If you believe it's redundant please let me know. el.ziade (talkallam) 12:53, 27 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Finds[edit]

Capitalisation

"depicts the King on"
"The Khopesh of tomb II"
"King Ip-Shemu-Abi" or "king Ip-Shemu-Abi"

Other issues

"This observation" not really an observation, more an aspect
"Tomb I sarcophagus" --> the sarcophagus of Tomb I, same for others.
" the bottom of tank in the body of the sarcophagus" ???
"The back of the lid is rounded and striated with irregularly sized lengthwise meplats." probably too technical, especially as the meplat link describes bullets
"The sarcophagus measures 2.97 meters (9.7 ft) long by 1,115 meters (3,658 ft) wide and is 1.4 meters (4.6 ft) tall, lid included." single sentence paragraph not needed, add to either previous or next paragraph
"each of the sides bared their chests" - tense should be present
"only one tenon" — tenon? what's a that? link?
Note F — is the French quote necessary? Or the English one for that matter.
"repelled and chiseled" — what's the intended meaning of repelled here?
" Tomb two" keep the Roman numerals consistent through the article.

I reviewed the above; I replaced meplats (directly translated from French) with fluting. Replaced tenon with lugs. I prefer to keep the French quotes. I removed 'repelled', I can't find an English equivalent. el.ziade (talkallam) 13:43, 27 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Dating, attribution and function[edit]

Capitalisation

" the 12th Dynasty" — should either be The Twelfth Dynasty or Dynasty XII. Should be linked here, too.
"(Romanized also as"

Other issues

"to the vases vases"
"Egyptologist" has already been linked

Linked in the lead once and in the body once el.ziade (talkallam) 13:56, 27 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

" New Kingdom of Egyt"
"reigns of the Abishemu and Ip-Shemu-Abi" unnecessary the
"dynasty rulers.[28]]][95][96]"
"Ahirma's"
Link Faience"
"Montet likened the Byblos tombs to mastabas and explains that" keep tense consistent.
"toomb"
To be extremely pedantic, the image caption "Gold oenochoe from Tomb IV in Mycenae." shouldn't have a full stop.

That'll do for now. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 14:51, 26 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@AirshipJungleman29:Thank you for your review, I really appreciate it.el.ziade (talkallam) 13:56, 27 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Layout[edit]

AirshipJungleman29 Thanks for the review, will work on the current issues for now.

@Elias Ziade:, in terms of layout, the article is mostly good. MOS:LIST and WP:WAF are not applicable, and it satisfied MOS:WTW and WP:MOSLAYOUT. However, as brought up in the peer review, the lead section is too long, and includes far too much unneeded information. For an article of this length, it should be three good-length paragraphs, or four at an absolute maximum (see MOS:LEADLENGTH). I have outlined a lead I think would be appropriate in this sandbox of mine; I strongly urge you to consider it, especially if you intend to take the article to FAC. Otherwise, excellent work so far.~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 15:05, 27 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I have also edited the notes, citations, and bibliography sections, for better visual layout; if you don't like it, feel free to revert. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 15:12, 27 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@AirshipJungleman29: I dread the leads the most, thank you for your help with this. I hope I didn't miss anything, please let me know if I have or if you have more comments.el.ziade (talkallam) 12:34, 28 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Run through[edit]

Some corrections noted in the dating, attribution and function section above are not done ("vases vases" etc.)
Links needed in the lead: Ernest Renan, exploratory trenches, sarcophagi.
"who unearthed during later works eight additional shaft tombs" --> "who unearthed eight additional shaft tombs during later works"
"where the deceased takes the form of a bird, and flies from" --> "where the deceased is believed to take the form of a bird and fly from"
I note Lehmann 2015 is apparently a report from a conference paper; maybe use {{cite conference}}?

I reviewed the above, I think I got everything covered now.el.ziade (talkallam) 19:09, 29 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I can find nothing else at the moment, I'll take a day to give my mind a break, have a final run-through, and after that it should be a formality, @Elias Ziade:. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 13:09, 28 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I'm really embarrassed, some issues escaped me @AirshipJungleman29:

Final checks[edit]

Corrected a few duplicate links, but all looks good. Congratulations! Promoting now. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 13:57, 1 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@AirshipJungleman29 Thank you so much for your efforts. You made the article significantly better. el.ziade (talkallam) 18:42, 1 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]