Talk:Rod of Asclepius

Biblical Reference Date

This passage

Biblical scholars look to the Book of Numbers, in which the Nehushtan (Hebrew: נחושתן or נחש הנחושת) was a brass serpent on a pole that God told Moses to erect, saying that anyone bitten [by a snake] would live if they looked at it. This Biblical account is the earliest known record, circa the 13th century BCE  of the pole/serpent combination (though the exact configuration is not known).

Was edited in December to include the text "circa the 13th century BCE", but the change is not supported by the cited source, which dates the actual record to a mix of sources written down over a period between 950 and 500 BCE, several hundred years later than the 13th century even at the earliest date. I previously deleted the 13th century claim with a note explaining that it wasn't supported by the source, but it was reverted by the same user who originally added it. The source claims that the events described in the Biblical book of Exodus are supposed to have occurred in the 13th century, but weren't recorded until much later.

What's more, while double checking the sources prior to writing this talk page section, I noticed the source is about the book of Exodus, not Numbers as claimed in the quoted passage, and does not directly back this being the oldest known record of the symbol, or even mention the specific anecdote at all, on top of using the wrong date and linking to an article about the wrong book. It's possible the user who added the citation cited the wrong link by mistake, but if that's the case it needs to be replaced with the correct citation. I checked the equivalent article about Numbers from the same source as the one provided about Exodus, but it doesn't mention dates at all, merely stating that it continues the narrative from the book of Exodus. There's an additional citation of this pubmed article at the end of the sentence which seems to at least be the source of the "oldest known reference" claim, but it also doesn't back a 13th century date, claiming instead that the biblical story occurred (with no mention of when it was written down, and no citation for the claim beyond the relevant bible passage itself, which also doesn't mention a date) in the 14th century BCE. My inclination at this point would be to reword the entire section to something more neutral and less sweeping in its claims, such as

In the Biblical Book of Numbers, the Nehushtan (Hebrew: נחושתן or נחש הנחושת) was a brass serpent on a pole that God told Moses to erect, saying that anyone bitten [by a snake] would live if they looked at it. This Biblical account is another early record of the pole/serpent combination appearing in a medical context (though the exact configuration is not known).

Owyn Merrilin (talk) 06:33, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

That text looks quite a bit better to my eye. Great claims need great evidence and the current text reads like a single editor's WP: synthesis of multiple sources. Unless it can be defended with better evidence pdq, I will support OM's proposed text. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 16:41, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

The initial few sentences are very unclear.

The sentence beginning with “in modern times” has an interrupting “although,” which has no closing associated clause 2601:603:2081:4050:2984:10FB:91B0:715E (talk) 20:34, 19 February 2023 (UTC)

Thank you. Yes, I agree. The lead should be a succinct and clear summary of the article. It had become bogged down in subclauses and excess detail. I have pruned it but other editors may feel I have overdone it. If anyone wants to revisit it, I would ask them to remember that en.wikipedia is extensively used by readers with English as a second language. Accordingly, complex nested clauses should be avoided if at all possible. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 23:18, 19 February 2023 (UTC)

Image is in the Bible

The Bible describes the single snake on a pole in bronze God direct Moses to make. Those bitten by a poisonous snake would not die from the poison if they looked at this image. Numbers 21:8,9 2600:1700:BD90:78D0:D49E:8DFF:FE8C:47FB (talk) 19:42, 24 February 2024 (UTC)

We already refer to this passage in Rod of Asclepius#A biblical equivalent. NebY (talk) 19:54, 24 February 2024 (UTC)

Isn't that the Nehushtan? Some kind of cult object for curing snakebites. Dimadick (talk) 21:33, 24 February 2024 (UTC)

Image if needed

Rod of Asclepius vector.svg

I replaced a user-generated image file from the {{infobox symbol}} in the Unicode section with a regular glyph from whatever the visitor's default sans-serif system font is. Perhaps someone was seeing tofu and tried to be helpful. If the issue arises again, would whoever feels it necessary please at least use an image that is actually a conservative representation of the symbol? (for example, using File:Rod of Asclepius vector.svg, right). This is the base case and is not a place to run off on a riff. 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 20:18, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

Note [a] misquoted

Note [a] should read "you marvel at the serpent..." but I cannot fix it because it is a construct I do not understand. 220.240.200.42 (talk) 03:58, 27 March 2024 (UTC)