Talk:Religion in Brazil/Archive 1

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Archive 1

Spiritism

Spiritism shouldn't be listed as a christian religion. It has a very different origin, even though it may use christian symbols or revere in some manner the figure of Jesus Christ; but in that case Islam should also be listed as a christian religion.

Syncretism

The article states: "Protestantism is generally the only religion in Brazil relatively free of syncretism.".

My muslims, orthodox christians and orthodox jewish friends, their families and communities do not syncretize their faiths with others religions or with the brazilian folklore.

Ricardo Carvalho 2007/01/14, 9:36 PM (Brazilian Summer Time)

Introduction

There is obviously a contradiction in the first paragraph, someone should fix that. RodolfoPiskorski 03:41, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Hinduism in Brazil

I moved this from the article to here, from an anonymous editor Corvokarasu 13:34, 23 May 2007 (UTC) :

No one can convert to Hinduism, they must be born Hindu. Therefore, white Brazilians cannot covert to Hinduism and this also proves that this site is not that handy. To make things clear you can practice Hindusim but you can never convert to Hinduism.
They exist. They begin reading Annie Besant and Eleanor Blavatski, then they jump on Hinduist phylosophy. I know lots of them. Words like "prana", "dharma", "moshka" etc are not foreign for a bunch of mid-to-up class Brazilians. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.24.21.122 (talk) 01:38, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
There are a lot of converts to Hinduism, most Western converts go to ISKCON which is a distinct part(Bhaktivedanta said its not Hinduism but many do now) of one of the Hindu religions(the sects have major differences so I might as well)...look at Ram Das for an example of an American convert(formerly Richard Alpert), look at Gangaji, Krishna DasLinda Johnsen(writer of 'Idiot's Guide to Hinduism')...I think you're getting confused with jati and caste, but that is up to the person as well, I'm a convert with a philosophical bent so I'm a BrahminDomsta333 (talk) 12:14, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Statistics

I like the new statistics in the introductory paragraph, but why the spaces? To me, it just looks cluttered, like the tabs are off. Also, the statistic of 600,000 Latter-day Saints contradicts the 200,000 number later in the article. I'm pretty sure the 200,000 is what is in the 2000 census and the 600,000 is the statistic generated by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Do you think we should use one or the other. Maybe specify where the information is coming from, because right now it's a little misleading. Corvokarasu 13:11, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

The Latter-day Saint number given by the church is how many people they have on their record, including, aparently, 400,000 people who were baptized and then never went back. I changed it back to 200,000, because that is a highly more reliable number

Candomble and Umbanda

The article says: "0.3% are followers of African traditional religions such as Candomblé and Umbanda"

The number of Brazilians who believe/follow in Candomble and Umbanda is probably 50 times larger than only 0.3% because they pretend they are Catholics (they are actually baptized as Catholics and eventually frequent the Catholic church because of social needs like weddings and funerals) but they don't believe in Catholicism, they just pretend they are, when they are actually followeres of Candomble and Umbanda. It happens because of the syncretism, they associate African gods to Catholic Saints and pay homages to Saints as if they were their African gods. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.24.21.122 (talk) 01:31, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

I agree, Candomblé went through much prejudice, that is such an undercount especially with people practice 2 or more religions in Brazil, Candomblé is syncretic, people in Rio offer flowers to the sea at the end of the year signifying offering to both Yemaya and Mary..Domsta333 (talk) 12:07, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.84.173.148 (talk) 17:53, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Aside from the biases above, which are hard to measure, I'd like to question the description "African traditional religions", since they were heavilly influenced by catholicism in slavery days (by means of force, of course). I usually don't think of candomblé and umbanda as "traditional african" but "based on african". Note, for example, the use of images and statues of white people, which received the traditional african names by slaves substituting the names of the catholic saints. What are other's thoughts? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.17.67.118 (talk) 00:11, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

Proportion section

There is a trend in this article to show a lot of statistics without proper interpretation. People look for information about Brazil, data are just a figures that are more readable in a table.

Remember the classical division among data, information and knowledge. Of course to provide information one needs to have knowledge, not just to give figures.

Zephynelsson Von 12:11, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Bad organization of sections

This article is not developed in a natural way. Look at the sections. It needs to be reorganized. A good flow of ideas is a main goal in every second grade composition. Every one is coming and writing something without caring for text organization. I intend to reshape this article soon, unless someone do it before.

Zephynelsson Von 15:54, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Formatting

Some recent edit has cause the formatting of the article to be out of whack. Since i do not have the Wiki knowledge to fix it, perhaps some other editor would be so kind as to make the formatting more beautiful. Thanks, --BwB (talk) 08:15, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

Merger Proposal

Per a request at WP:AN/RFC, there is no consensus to merge Irreligion in Brazil into this article. -Nathan Johnson (talk) 16:11, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I propose that Irreligion in Brazil be merged into this article. I think that Irreligion in Brazil represents a POV fork from this article. I think discussion of whether the current title is suitably neutral is also reasonable, as the creation of the irreligion article appears to inherently be an argument that the current title is not neutral. VQuakr (talk) 07:10, 6 September 2012 (UTC)

  • Merge per WP:CFORK: definitely both articles share single topic. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 16:53, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
  • It doesn't represent anything, VQuakr. If there is any bias about this, it's the creation of your merge proposal.Take a look at "Category:Irreligion by country". Will you merge all these too? -- Marawe (talk) 19:24, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
  • Merge per WP:CFORK: Agree with D. Czarkoff above; there is insufficient content to merit a separate article.Whiteguru (talk) 21:45, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
  • Merge per WP:POVFORK; I see no need (in this case) for a flip-side article. All the best, Miniapolis (talk) 21:53, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
  • Merge per WP:POVFORK. This is a typical neutral article title; there is no way in which to phrase the topic of religion, or lack thereof, in a specific region, other than "Religion in Region X". I think it can be agreed that "Lack of Religion in Region X" is at best POV, and at worst a coatrack, as it's discussing a negative (one can not discuss "Lack of liquid in space", for example, but, instead, "Vacuum"). St John Chrysostom Δόξατω Θεώ 10:12, 17 September 2012‎ (UTC)
  • Not merge. It is not just POV, it involves cultural issues, not related just to the present secularization of Western societies but to social issues in Brazil as a whole. As Marawe said, there are other countries which have articles representing their irreligious minorities. Non-religious people in Brazil are deemed to be a different group in society by themselves and by others, to a way that does draw comparison with other subjects to discrimination (and many of us are "militant" to a extent that would make all American conservatives going nuts, BTW most conservative forums and blogs here mention the fact that we exist and lose in loudness only to groups such as "feminists, communists and gay pride activists"); anti-racist and anti-homophobic people may and frequently have prejudice against atheists and agnostics here. People frequently try to hide everything that relates to absence of faith in a family member or friend when in social environments, and everyone is expected to "at least believe in God" (message intended: religion > lack of religion > lack of faith in spirituality > atheism) despite the fact that we're about 10% of the population (many are closeted, obviously), otherwise it shocks even younger people (it happened to me from entire classrooms, more than once, even with the fact that I was openly left-winger and quite non-hideous queer; I'm generally "famed" for being openly atheist, what is of concern since I am from Rio, one of the most liberal cities in Latin America and with biggest non-religious populations). It is a pretty taboo topic, which shouldn't be, because much of Evangelicalism and Protestantism here are acting like cults much like Scientology in the United States and influence politics much like Mormonism and Evangelicalism in the United States, while the most obnoxious atheists are neither trying to curtain the liberties of Christians and minorities nor have a us against strangers view of society, still most people openly prefer a child that goes to a cult-like Protestant church rather than a faithless one. Obviously the article isn't developed, but these issues are actual and present, and it is not something I would find nice to edit about here. Lguipontes (talk) 04:18, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
  • Do not merge Wikipedia has several articles on irreligion in different countries and even continents. Why should Brazil receive special treatment? Examples:
Countries
Continents
These are just some of the few examples. The only significant exception here is Irreligion in China and that's probably because of Chinese restrictions on democracy. Is Brazil like China or is it like the numerous other countries which have an irreligion article? Are all the mentioned articles POV forks? The right thing to do is to let the article stay and let it grow. Hoshigaki (talk) 05:48, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
  • Not merge a good article with sources to support it as a solo article.Dwanyewest (talk) 14:02, 1 October 2012 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

New Proposal

I have some new proposals. To the previous proposal (Merger Proposal) of merging Irreligion in Brazil into this article. How about we either just add it to this page, delete the page (since it isn't too important, not well written, and is a stub), expand it, leave them as they are, or create a link to it/add it into See also? Hopefully this is a new idea, helpful, and creates a compromise! And a reminder to everyone, remember to keep cool, don't take anything personal, stay calm, try to compromise, be kind and friendly, and PLEASE don't be mean or insulting! I wish everyone all the best! God bless! Lopezjaylo98 (talk) 03:59, 21 September 2012 (UTC) has given you a dove! Doves promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day happier. Spread the WikiLove by giving someone else a dove, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past (this fits perfectly) or a good friend. Cheers!

Spread the peace of doves by adding {{subst:Peace dove}} to someone's talk page with a friendly message!

wrong

wrong wrong wrong, most of the churches cited under protestant label are not protestant at all — Preceding unsigned comment added by 179.216.3.64 (talk) 01:52, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

Census info

I put some more info in the pie chart; however, I think we need to overhaul the Table of Religions in Brazil info since (a) it contains only 2000 data and (b) is far too much raw information. I suggest a table containing 2000 and 2010 data but not breaking down into urban/rural or male/female but with numbers and percent of total population. Also what is the difference between Espiritualista and Espírita (these are census categories); the latter is a large denomination (over 2% of the population (3.8 million people)). I note there is a website for Federação Espírita Brasileira and a fairly large Portuguese Wikipedia entry on it. --Erp (talk) 01:01, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

pt:Espiritualismo and pt:Espiritismo are slightly different things. Please read Spiritualism and Spiritism for the differences. —capmo (talk) 03:01, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

Graph colors

Ugly colors, should be fixed 201.43.203.219 (talk) 23:35, 27 June 2018 (UTC)

Deleted

Deleted 117.20.113.125 (talk) 11:34, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

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