Talk:Pierre-Philippe Potier

Our Lady of the Assumption (Windsor, Ontario)

My French source says that Potier founded Our Lady of the Assumption (Windsor, Ontario), while the (English) article for the church says it was Armand de La Richardie. I stuck with my source here, but it would be nice to resolve this. Peter Flass (talk) 10:40, 25 March 2022 (UTC)

I think the issue here is that there La Richardie and Potier should each be associated with important dates in the history of Our Lady of the Assumption (Windsor, Ontario). In 1728, La Richardie established a mission, Our Lady of the Assumption among the Hurons, and then in 1767, this mission became an official parish (Canonical institution), with Potier as its first pastor. This sequence of events in given on the Wikipedia page, Our Lady of the Assumption (Windsor, Ontario). The information is confirmed in the articles in the Canadian Dictionary of Biography, on Potier () and on La Richardie (). Óghog (talk) 17:49, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

References

Location of Lorette

This article states that Potier spent 8 months learning the Huron language at Lorette, Manitoba. This seems highly unlikely. More likely is that Potier, having arrived in Canada at Québec, learned the Huron language at the village of Lorette just outside of Québec. Lorette, Manitoba has no connection with the Huron nation, whereas (Jeune-)Lorette, Québec, now situated within a much-expanded Québec City, remains the home of the Huron-Wendat Nation (see Wendake). Óghog (talk) 18:49, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

The interpretation that Lorette is the Lorette just outside the settlement of Québec is confirmed by the sequence of events given in Reference 1 (Toupin, Robert. "Pierre-Philippe Potier". Dictionary of Canadian Biography. Retrieved Mar 21, 2022; in my case retrieved 2023-Dec-31). The sequence is: (1) Potier arrives at Québec on 1 October 1743; (2) he spends 8 months learning the Huron language at Lorette; and (3) he leaves Québec on 26 June 1744. There is no mention of the Canadian prairies, of Manitoba or of the Seine River, nor is there any mention of these in the French language version of the same Dictionary of Canadian Biography article. Óghog (talk) 21:27, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

Miscellaneous small issues

Acronym SJ: I think the picture caption, "Pierre-Philippe Potier, s.j." should be changed to "Pierre-Philippe Potier SJ". This is in line with what can be seen on List of acronyms: S#SJ and on Jesuits. This is despite the "S.J." (with periods) found in some places on Jesuits, but in line with the usage on Bernard Lonergan. Also, not including a comma after "Pierre-Philippe" (again see Bernard Lonergan) seems to me more appropriate than using a comma. The reason is that "SJ" after a name I believe must represent the Latin genitive case expression, "Societatis Iesu" (English: of the Society of Jesus), rather than the more commonly seen nominative case, "Societas Iesu" (English: the Society of Jesus). This would make it a genitive attributive phrase, making the comma unnecessary, although still possible. If it were an appositional noun phrase (i.e. if Pierre-Philippe Potier was actually the Society of Jesus), the comma would be needed. See Genitive case and Apposition. Óghog (talk) 16:01, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

In versus at Quebec: I plan to change "he arrived on October 1 in Quebec" to "he arrived on October 1 at Quebec". In 1743, Quebec meant only one thing, the settlement (village, town) that has since become Quebec City. There was no region (currently province) of Quebec. So Quebec means a geographic point that one arrives at rather than in.Óghog (talk) 16:55, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

French Canadians versus Canadiens: The term French Canadians seems to me to imply the existence of English Canadians, which at the time was not the case. The term Canadians would also work, provided readers understand that all Canadians at the time were French speakers.Óghog (talk) 20:35, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

Treaty of Paris versus Conquest of New France: The Treaty of Paris concluded a world-wide conflict among colonial European powers; the Conquest of New France was the aspect of this conflict that would have affected Potier directly. I therefore changed the Wikipedia reference from Treaty of Paris to Conquest of New France.Óghog (talk) 21:21, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

Potier either continued or started: The source reference () states that Potier's ministry expanded to include Canadiens after that Conquest, whereas this article stated that Potier's ministry to the French Canadians continued after the Conquest. I have altered the article to conform with the source reference.Óghog (talk) 21:34, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

Location of Bois Blanc Island: The article said that this was Bois Blanc Island in what is now Michigan, but this Bois Blanc Island is in the Strait of Mackinac some 300 km north of Detroit. The source reference () states clearly that it was the Bois Blanc Island in what is now Ontario, which is only about 30 km from Detroit.Óghog (talk) 01:34, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

"de La Richardie" versus "La Richardie": I have chosen "La Richardie", which is the form used by the Dictionary of Canadian Biography, in both English and French.

La Richardie's illness: I removed information stating that La Richardie was paralyzed, because this is not substantiated in the only source reference used for the article (), which mentions only "illness". If the additional reference were used, the information that La Richardie suffered a stroke could be included, but in my opinion this would be straying too far from the topic of the article.Óghog (talk) 02:10, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

References

Wikipedia dates

Is there a standard for dates in Wikipedia? I really don't like the month-day-year format used in this article, but did not change it. I prefer a date format that goes from largest to smallest time unit (year-month-day), or from smallest to largest (day-month-year). Month-day-year is middle-smallest-largest, which seems illogical. Óghog (talk) 11:45, 3 January 2024 (UTC)