Talk:Philippines and the Spratly Islands

This page was proposed for deletion by STSC (talk · contribs) on 31 July 2012 with the comment:
This article explicitly excludes non-Filipino points of view
It was contested by Necrothesp (talk · contribs) on 2012-07-31 with the comment:
Only non-controversial deletes should be proposed for deletion

This article was nominated for deletion on 31 July 2012 (UTC). The result of the discussion was keep.

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Islands

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Why I created this page[edit]

When I started editing Wikipedia, Spratly Islands was one of the first articles I edited. I was the one who is behind that table listings of the occupied and unoccupied features of Spratlys. (note: I don't have my Estarapapax user account back then when I started the table. You'll just see an IP address when you try searching the history.) After years of randomly editing it, I felt tried of all the technical informations about Spratly Islands. I got tired of the brief history, descriptions, coordinates, timeline, geography, etc. Whenever I try searching the web, it's not different. They contain purely technical stuffs. Even worse, when I tried reading books about Spratly Islands in our College of Law Library (University of the Philippines, Diliman. note: I'm not a Law major), they too contain technical stuffs.

These are not the things I know about Spratlys. All the years of my intense craze for Spratlys brought me to a totally different perspective on Spratly islands. There are no informations about the soldiers assigned in Spratlys, how they live, how they view the issue. No infos on Chinese poachers and their arrests. No infos on how civilians lived on the Pagasa island, how do they care for the islands' environment. No infos on Filipino fishermen who always go to the Spratly region.

This article is created to somehow elaborate the extensive, colorful (for me) and tension-driven history of the Philippines, along with all the side-stories of it, in the Spratly Islands. I encourage fellow Wikipedians to add new ideas to this article. I, too, is still making additions to this article. Most of what I said in this article are from my stock knowledge. However, I somehow try my best to cite references. Just how unlucky I am since Philippine TV networks are not providing any archiving services. Also, I encourage Chinese, Vietnamese and Malaysian wikipedians to start a similar article about their countries'. eStaRapapax ^{xapaparatse! exsatpaarpa!} 18:29, 1 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Neutrality and sourcing[edit]

Parts of this article do not appear to maintain a neutral point of view. Phrases such as "even worse" are particularly egregious in this regard. The article also needs much more sourcing. Estarapapax, I've read your comments above, and it sounds as if much of the article is original research, which is not allowable on Wikipedia. Aleta (Sing) 15:00, 5 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I've been waiting for a long time to have someone comment on this article. Regarding NPOV, well, that's something I'm working with now. However, I'm a little busy this days and can't allot much time editing wikipedia. Also, I need more feedbacks like the one you have said about "even worse" part. Just like what I said in my comments above, I encourage anybody to make substantial edits to this article.

Regarding the original research you have said, I actually do not consider this one as an original research. I have done many researches at my university that I can truly say as my own, so I know exactly what original research is. This article is more like a compilation of informations coming out from different sources. As said in my first comment, I have some trouble citing references. Quite many of what I've said here came from what I watched in different television programs. The problem is that Philippine TV networks don't have any accessible databases which give the episode titles, summary and other informations about their programs. I'm trying my best to look for alternative sources. If you feel a certain statement is way too much to be stated without a supporting reference, please remove it. However, please make all necessary paraphrasing so that the organization of the article is not sacrificed.

Also, I'm aware that there is a current debate among wikipedians on what type of reference is acceptable. Some are against web sources, while some are not. Most of my references here are web sources. I guess that while this debate is not settled, web sources can still adequately support the statements they are foot-noted to. I'll try searching our College of Law Library again this summer (April-May = Philippine summer) to provide more strong references for the history and policies parts of this article.

However, sad to say, I will surely have hard time citing sources on the Response to Illegal fishing section. The arrests are easy to support by citing available online news sources (the pictures have the footnotes). The Filipinos concern for endangered species and the anti-Chinese sentiments, on the other hand, are supported by only the Philippine TV new programs. I'm still trying searching for alternative sources for this part. eStaRapapax ^{xapaparatse! exsatpaarpa!} 15:40, 6 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your thoughtful response. I'll submit that if you can start adding even something such as "So-and-So News Program, on such-and-such date", it would be better. If these are not easily accessible, people won't be very happy about them as references, but it would be better than no reference at all. I'll look more at the article later, and try to come up with some more useful comments/ edits. Aleta ^Sing 16:43, 8 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

On the grounded ship[edit]

I would like to point out that it was not BRP Benguet that run aground the shallow coral base of Pag-asa Island but rather the BRP Lanao Del Norte. The current fate of the ship has found considerable discussions among members of the Philippine Defense Forum at Timawa.net. A March-2011 photograph of BRP Lanao Del Norte was even posted by Blackhand. You may also read a July-2011 article entitled "Phl Sending more troops to Spratly's" written by Jaime Laude of the Philippine Star.It was mentioned there that it was BRP Benguet that transported more troops and supplies to Pag-asa Island.Levekks (talk) 04:25, 17 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Airspace violation[edit]

Where, if anywhere should content regarding airspace violation be included? This reliable source states that there was such an action in the vicinity of the Reed Bank.--RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 19:07, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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"The latest arrests" vs. DATED, NOTNEWS, and NPOV[edit]

This edit caught my eye. It changed a reported latest arrest of VN fisherman from a 2007 incident to a 2014 incident. Reportage of "the latest" info strikes me as introducing a WP:DATED problem and as contrary to WP:NOTNEWS. Also, if such reportage is to be done here, incidents involving countries other than VN ought to be treated similarly (e.g., by including perhaps info from this reportage of the May, 2014 arrest of some Chinese fishermen) -- not treating all countries evenhandedly in this regard could be argued to be WP:NPOV problem. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 19:08, 7 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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Apparent major error: "only a few miles east of the Spratly Islands"[edit]

The caption of a group of two images in the article reads: "US and Filipino soldiers on a joint amphibious assault exercise last 2004 in Palawan, only a few miles east of the Spratly Islands." However, one of the images, File:Balikatan3.jpg declares this as the source of the image. That is a dead link, but an archived copy here appears to identify the location as Dingalan, Aurora, which is quite remote from the Spratly islands. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 16:27, 5 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Tagged as POV[edit]

Per discussion at the NPOV noticeboard. Barnards.tar.gz (talk) 08:35, 31 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]