Talk:Peter Halley

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The following Wikipedia contributor has declared a personal or professional connection to the subject of this article. Relevant policies and guidelines may include conflict of interest, autobiography, and neutral point of view.

71.234.71.221 (talk · contribs) This user has contributed to the article. (Special:Diff/85625239 insertion of DOB w/o source, strongly indicative of COI/U editing)

Organization[edit]

eek. this page needs some organization!Warrenking (talk) 22:17, 4 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

COI disclosure[edit]

The following Wikipedia contributor has declared a personal or professional connection to the subject of this article. Relevant policies and guidelines may include conflict of interest, autobiography, and neutral point of view.

Sapphire099 (talk · contribs) This user has declared a connection. ((Optional) disclosure: Halley is a friend and collaborator of user Sapphire099 and user Sapphire 099 participated in his show at the Lever House.)

Sapphire099 (talk) 15:37, 28 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Students[edit]

I don't think students should be included based on a list of alumni from Yale, but I am open to suggestions as to which criteria should be used for inclusion. What does strike me as unusual is that we would accept inclusion of one external link, exclusively for for Catherine Lan, but not for others, even though the source does provide them. Lam does not appear to meet our notability criteria for artists, WP:NARTIST. Lanqiaoru, can you please explain why we should treat Lan differently than the others, and what criteria you used for inclusion? Vexations (talk) 16:42, 16 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, There is one other who had a link. So I added her link. But I think we can either use all with or all without. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lanqiaoru (talk • contribs) 00:41, 17 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

For the current group of student names to be included as-is in the article, there should be decent secondary WP:RS covarage of the fact that they were his students. This includes Keltie Ferris, the current source [1] is not good enough. WP:BLP:s needs to be conservately written, this article probably needs more improvement in that direction. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 16:01, 18 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Link[edit]

There is one student who had a link, so Lan is added with. However, it could be adjusted to either a with or all without. Lanqiaoru (talk) 00:42, 17 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Lanqiaoru, thanks for getting back to me. Here's my problem with including a list of students, and perhaps I haven't been clear about this: we need a source that says: so-and-so was a student of Halley. I just don't see those. As for links; we make a link (once) to an article if we have one. It's OK to make a link to an article that doesn't exist yet, a so-called redlink, if you know that there are enough sources to create a new article. For Lan, I just don't see that. In summary, to include Lan in the list we need a source that says "Lan was a student of Halley", and to make a link, we need enough material to create an article about Lan. If you have that, I'm happy to help. External links should really only be used as descibed in WP:ELYES. Thanks, Vexations (talk) 01:51, 17 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

List of student[edit]

Although the Yale Alumni does not specifically say so and so is Halley's student, it shows the list of students while he was teaching there, which proofs to be so. It could easily be found through contacting the school or as evidenced on the web page and the list. It can also be proven by going to those artists websites to verify. Since there is a section on his teaching, it is important to include it. Lanqiaoru (talk) 04:03, 17 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Lanqiaoru, I have no reason to doubt the veracity of Yale's alumni list, although I'm not sure that graduating from a program means one is a student of the chair of the program, does it? I don't think we meet our policy on verifiabilty, WP:V by saying, "I'm going to make a claim that is not supported by any sources here and if you want to check it you can call the school". I'd like to see much better sources.

But also; why do we include some graduates and not others? What criteria do you propose we use? I think including artists we have articles on would be OK, and perhaps those where have the sources to potentially write one. But if we don't have such sources, why should we include them? Vexations (talk) 12:49, 17 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Student[edit]

Halley was teaching at Yale. He was a professor there as well as the director of the painting program. The wiki is not clear and made it look like he us only the administration chair. He interviews students as well and I am one of them. Originally the wiki already included his prominent students, which I believe is added by him or his employee. I see him almost every year as he organised new year party for all of his past students. I know all of them who were on the list since his prominent students are the ones who are still making art and have a higher exposure as seen in their websites. He has taught most of them but many are not artist anymore. Lanqiaoru (talk) 16:08, 17 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Sources[edit]

Not having sources - or not bring published dies not mean we should not include important information that is true and relates to his work and life. For example, there is also no source to say that he was married to Ann. Lanqiaoru (talk) 16:10, 17 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Correct! Such things should be cited or removed, especially since this is a WP:BLP. Also, you don't have to make a new section for each comment. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:46, 18 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Articles[edit]

There are many international students as well who are prominent outside of the country. They have articles in English but also mostly in other languages. I can provide you some if you'd like to help link those. Lanqiaoru (talk) 16:12, 17 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Lanqiaoru, I went through the list of graduates on the yale website, https://www.art.yale.edu/about/people/alumni and converted it into the kind of list that is used on wikipedia, with all the artist's websites formatted as references. You can find that list here. Using that list I searched every artist's website for any mentions of Yale, of which there were plenty and Halley, of which there were none. Not a single graduate's website mentions Halley. I have not found a single source that we could use that clearly and directly identifies a grad as a student of Halley. That is not acceptable. You may have personal knowledge of Halley, as do I (I've met him), but that is not how we write an encyclopedia. We're tertiary source; we summarize what other people have said, published by a reliable publisher, with a reputation for fact checking. I'm open to making an attempt at finding a source that discusses the blue linked artists (on whom we have an article) in the list I made, but so far, I've found nothing. Vexations (talk) 21:26, 17 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Student[edit]

I am Halley's student. The students normally do not mention in their websites but it is obvious that during the 10 years he was teaching at Yale and act as the Director of the painting department, he taught those who were there, which is on the list. Also, it is compulsory that we as students sign up with him every other week or so for studio visits. I am currently a doctoral student at Columbia University writing a dissertation that includes 3-4 artists who have influenced me , he is one of them and it will be published in the future. Lanqiaoru (talk) 14:41, 18 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]