Talk:Peresadyes

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Multiple sources[edit]

This version has multiple sources, cited and supporting what is stated diff Megistias (talk) 20:18, 7 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The Hammond source, used multiple times already in the article clearly states "The Peresadyes were evidently Illyrians".--— ZjarriRrethues — ^talk 17:49, 8 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I see that 'Cambridge ancient history' has a different opinion on that: [[1]] The name suggests that they were Thracians... The suggestion has been recently strenghtened by the discovery of such gold masks...

Quite interesting, since the 'Cambridge history' a work of 1999 takes into account recent discoveries. Moreover I dont see the reason why one of the two versions should be removed.Alexikoua (talk) 19:28, 8 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It talks about the name connection and that they had contact with them. I didn't remove that the name is connected or that they had contact with the Thracians.--— ZjarriRrethues — ^talk 19:39, 8 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The name itself is very close to Thracian Berisades[3] (Greek: Bηρισάδης) and the Peresadyes seem to have had contact with Thracians.[5]

I haven't removed the name connection or that they had contact with them.--— ZjarriRrethues — ^talk 19:47, 8 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It seems you are confused: it doesn't say they were connected with the Thracians, but that they were Thracians. I've already gave the exact part [[2]], which needs to be presented in the article.Alexikoua (talk) 19:52, 8 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I linked the name connection with a possible origin. I don't think there is any unpresented theory now. And the verb suggest means that something is possible, it doesn't express certainty. --— ZjarriRrethues — ^talk 19:55, 8 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately the 30 years more recent work of 'CAH', that takes into account recent research excavation, doesn't agree with you while it mysteriously ignores the Illyrian options.Alexikoua (talk) 06:18, 9 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

This is the latest source that indicates the Thracian origin ref, it was in and the article version that had it was the most neutral one. You cannot beat archeologyMegistias (talk) 08:43, 9 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

WP:SYNTH[edit]

Hammond claims them pure Illyrians and places them with Taulantii in center Albania, the same for Stipcevic here [3] also Wilkes sees the culture of Trebeniste as of Greco-Illyrian [4] the Cambridge source says they maybe (from their name) they are Thracians and places them in Macedonia (Trebeniste). Combining them to create an article is the clearest example of WP:SYNTH Just try to figure out what this (lead of the article) could possibly mean Peresadyes, (Greek: Περεσάδυές[1]) were most likely a Thracian tribe[2] of the Edones or Illyrians[1](?!) that ruled[3] over, or(?!) with the Encheleans, or(?!) the Sesarethi, but only(?!) if the latter were not the Encheleans themselves(?!) and were part of the Taulantii group[4] of tribes.?!?!?!?! (talk) 12:27, 27 April 2010 (UTC) Moreover as 2000 here they are called Encheleae again [5] or Katicic (the great Yugoslav linguist specialist in Balkan linguistics, the one who is a reference for all regarding Illyrian linguistics) 1995 here [6] Aigest (talk) 17:15, 27 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Peresadyes, Sessareti, Encheleae, Dardani etc[edit]

Let's make a resume of the sources

Hammond opinion in 1967 "Peresadyes were Illyrians. They were part of Taulanti (central Albania) and they joined Encheleae"
Stipcevic opinion 1977 "Sessarethi were Illyrians part of Taulanti. Trebeniste culture is classified as Illyrian with Greek influence" [7]
Hammond opinion 1978 "Peresadyes probably came from north. They were probably part of Dardani north and they joined Encheleae" notice the fact that for Hammond Dardani are Illyrians
Cambridge opinion in 1994 "Peresadyes were the dynasty of Trebeniste. The name suggest they are Thracians" [8]
Wilkes opinion in 1995 "Trebeniste culture is the most known famous example of Graeco-Illyrian culture" [9]

Others opinion

Hesperìa: I greci in Adriatico. Supplemento del ..., Volume 11; Volume 15 edited by Lorenzo Braccesi, Mario Luni 2002 "Trebeniste Culture is synthesis of two cultures Greek and Illyrian"[10]
L'Adriatico greco: culti e miti minori By Benedetta Rossignoli 2004 "Trebeniste Culture is Greco-Illyrian" [11]

Majority of the sources (just check it over internet) maintain that Trebeniste culture is Greco-Illyrian do we agree on that? Aigest (talk) 21:59, 27 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]