Talk:Paul Vanden Boeynants

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Murat Kaplan[edit]

Removed: 

Murat Kaplan, one of them, escaped again when he was granted a weekend parole, on July 17, 2006.[1]

Kaplan joined the two Haemers-gang members when they escaped from jail. However he was not himself member of that gang and therefore is not relevant to the kidnapping of VdB. BertK 22:31, 17 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I reverted the addition of Kaplan again: he has no relevance at all with this article. He was not involved with the kidnapping. The fact that he escaped prison recently is interesting, but belongs on his own page. BertK 18:27, 18 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, there is one source (Belga) that reported Kaplan being a member of the Haemers Gang. Anyways, that he broke away with 2 of the kidnappers of Vanden Boeynants seems to enough for a brief mention though? Intangible 18:40, 18 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Kidnapping mystery[edit]

Why refer to the kidnapping being disputed, but give no reason for the claim?Royalcourtier (talk) 09:57, 7 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Imprisoned but not imprisonsed.[edit]

The statement that "Vanden Boeynants escaped jail but was sentenced to three years" makes no sense at all.Royalcourtier (talk) 09:58, 7 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Sex trafficking allegations[edit]

Been noticing a lot of vandalism and un-sourced edits to this page referencing sex trafficking allegations against Vanden Boeynants (the most recent three: this, this, or this).

A quick google search doesn't yield any reliable sources showing that Lucas accused Vanden Boeynants directly, instead most articles reference Belgian Aristocrats or Belgian politicians

Opening discussion here since it seems to be a popular narrative at the moment. Will post more as I have time to research

SpookyTwenty (talk) 16:57, 13 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Adding that the edits reference Anneke Lucas, who is the Lucas mentioned above SpookyTwenty (talk) 17:36, 13 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
See Talk:Anneke Lucas. And:
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Anneke_Lucas&redirect=no
There is a January 28, 2023 video of Anneke Lucas speaking:
YouTube: I Was Sold Into An Elite P*dophile Network | A Child S*x Trafficking Story.
She states around 15:31 into the video that Paul Vanden Boeynants was the head of the pedophile network in control of her at that point in 1974. She was born in 1963.
She wrote a book that came out in 2022.
"Quest for Love: Memoir of a Child Sex Slave".
I am not sure, but I don't think she named him in that book. According to this Google search:
https://www.google.com/search?q=Paul+Vanden+Boeynants+Quest+for+Love%3A+Memoir+of+a+Child+Sex+Slave
I don't see any way to search inside that book at Amazon or Google Books.
Here is a detailed bio page on her.
She has a website and Youtube channel too. Her social media sites are linked at the bottom of her website home page.
One reason I mention all this is that it seems she has only recently started naming names, and those may be the places to look for that. Her book got some media coverage, and so the media will probably start covering the names too. Which might then be used as Wikipedia sources, especially if corroborated. --Timeshifter (talk) 04:21, 17 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I am currently doing a deep dive into SRA research. I just finished her book. She absolutely mentions him in her book, several times throughout. The reason for me researching him right now.
Anneke is a brave soul. Her dedication to helping other survivors heal is beyond incredible. I hope to meet her someday. 174.228.99.68 (talk) 21:45, 8 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
This might be an opinion too unpopular for YouTube, where I won't comment. If you watch Anneke Lucas' accounts (I have not read her book), there are a few moments where my alarm bells went off. One of the more egregious ones is that a countess from her pedophile network apparently wanted to know who Anneke's father was. She was a small child at that time, so we are talking early 1970s. According to Lucas, they took her blood to analyse it and established that she belonged to "one of the bloodlines", presumably some descent-group that was relevant to the network's interests. I cannot speak to Lucas being "a brave soul" or not. I don't know what her biography actually entails. But I know that there was no DNA-testing for human "bloodlines" in the early 1970s. There are many other elements of her story that make them dubious at best. E.g. that she was "deprogrammed" in a way that would ensure that she would never be successful in life, after she had been set up for stardom by the same network that apparently had groomed her to be a child sex slave. It just rings odd. Truth be told: I have as much faith in her origin story as in Buffy Sainte Marie's (who alleged that her brother had sexually abused her, but only once he had become more outspoken about her being a pretendian). Trigaranus (talk) 20:33, 11 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I am not wedded to any of this. Just curious. See Jan 20, 2017 article:

Her birthday is April 12 according to this Facebook post from her:

So that means her date of birth is April 12, 1963. See DNA paternity testing#History. There was gradually increasing specificity of blood testing in the 1970s. More towards excluding who the father was. Maybe in a kid's mind "bloodlines" got mixed up with people testing her to see if one of the rapists in the pedophile network was her father or grandfather. Or if that could be excluded. Her mother apparently was pretty despicable, and probably had sex (forced and otherwise) with the network. So anything was possible.

She has a Facebook page:

She links to others speaking out. So maybe corroboration is available now, and Wikipedia might be able to use it. More interviews of her and others in print and video. She links to this too:

Pedophile networks are real, and have been prosecuted. See: Child sex ring. On the other hand people should be skeptical of women whose sexual abuse beliefs come solely from hypnosis, etc. and not conscious memory. See: Ritual abuse. Some of the religiously (Satanic, etc,) sexual abuse is real according to that article, but most is not.

Lucas does not say her abuse was religious/ritual based, as far as I can remember. At least not most of it. And her memories are conscious memories. More info on her such as other social media links:

More articles:

--Timeshifter (talk) 00:51, 12 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Timeshifter
Facebook group and Sun articles fall short of essential criteria regarding reliability. But I am definitely on the fence about what happened to her and what did not. She may indeed have an awful past that we wouldn't wish on our worst enemies. I am also aware of the phenomenon of child sex rings -- yet find the differences far too striking between what Lucas says and what confirmed instances of such networks actually look like (Telford, Dutroux, Epstein, etc.). A lot of what she says, including the fact that she offers such in-depth insight into the organisations she was enslaved by, ring more like an adult's narrative than the recollection of childhood experiences remembered from a child's perspective. I hate the idea that what I am casting doubt on here may be real traumata; but I picked the analogy to Buffy or to Sacheem Littlefeather (who spent their lives wearing a made-up mantle) specifically because I also hate the idea that she might be courting attention with a series of tall tales that are so hugely sensational as to eclipse the very banal horrors of widespread everyday abuse. I do hope that in the long run we will be able to confirm or refute her story. At the moment it looks doubtful. Trigaranus (talk) 05:23, 12 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think it belongs in the Wikipedia article without corroboration. And it is good to be skeptical. But I tend to believe her from the articles and video I have seen. She mentions that she recognized some of the people in the news or in the court cases when she was an adult. So there is an adult perspective piecing it together. She remembered some of the others before she saw them in the news. I don't see how she was wearing a made up mantle. She didn't come out about it until that 2016 article. Most rape victims never go public, and never take it to the police. Many are traumatized. Many are terrified that their abusers will kill them if they bring it to the police. Even today. She waited until she left Belgium. And many of her abusers are elderly or dead now. --Timeshifter (talk) 06:43, 12 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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