Talk:Pat Williams (American football)

This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.

If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.

Biography: Sports and Games

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	Sports portal This article is supported by the sports and games work group.

College football

	College football portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject College football, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of college football on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.College footballWikipedia:WikiProject College footballTemplate:WikiProject College footballcollege football articles
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

National Football League: Vikings

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject National Football League, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the NFL on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.National Football LeagueWikipedia:WikiProject National Football LeagueTemplate:WikiProject National Football LeagueNational Football League articles
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by the Vikings task force.

United States: Texas / Texas A&M Low‑importance

	United States portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the United States of America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions. Template Usage Articles Requested! Become a Member Project Talk Alerts United StatesWikipedia:WikiProject United StatesTemplate:WikiProject United StatesUnited States articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	Texas portal This article is supported by WikiProject Texas (assessed as Low-importance).
	Texas portal This article is supported by WikiProject Texas - Texas A&M (assessed as Low-importance).

317 pounds[edit]

I don't care what it says in the team guide. He's closer to 350 than he is to 317... 74.166.231.47 (talk) 04:52, 9 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians, I have just added archive links to one external link on Pat Williams (American football). Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

Added archive https://web.archive.org/20081205093105/http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com:80/2008/football/nfl/12/02/nfl.ap/index.html to http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/football/nfl/12/02/nfl.ap/index.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know. This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—^{cyberbot II}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 18:34, 17 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 7 May 2020[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: No consensus. (closed by non-admin page mover) Calidum 19:53, 19 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Pat Williams (American football) → Pat Williams (defensive tackle) – Replacement of parenthetical qualifier "(American football)" with "(defensive tackle)" would depict this main title header in a form analogous to Patrick Williams (wide receiver). Alternatively, since one of these men is referenced as "Pat" and the other as "Patrick", each is eligible to use the same qualifier, "(American football)". Thus if consensus skews towards leaving this header in place and moving Patrick Williams (wide receiver) → Patrick Williams (American football), I would also support such an analogous resolution. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 19:54, 7 May 2020 (UTC) —Relisting. King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 04:11, 31 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support moving Patrick Williams (wide receiver) → Patrick Williams (American football), and leaving this article at current title. These are different player names, so no need to differentiate between the two players. Eagles 24/7 (C) 20:02, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. It might be added, as an additional detail, that similar circumstances exist with regard to Pat Williams (basketball) and Patrick Williams (basketball) as well as with Pat Williams (Montana politician) {Pat Williams (politician) is a redirect} and Patrick Williams (Louisiana politician) {Patrick Williams (politician) is, as of this writing, a redlink. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 20:16, 7 May 2020 (UTC)}[reply]

I would also support moving the Montana politician to Pat Williams (politician) and moving the Louisiana politician to Patrick Williams (politician). Unless I am mistaken, we only disambiguate for people with the same name, not just similar names. Eagles 24/7 (C) 20:25, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

No, this is not true. If both are called Patrick but only one is commonly known as Pat then Patrick Williams (politician) and Pat Williams (politician) are confusing and incomplete disambiguation. The latter is correct (as the only possible one). The former is not (as both could be referred to in this way). -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:11, 13 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Necrothesp: I'm not sure it's relevant what the person's full legal name is if they are commonly known by a hypocorism. WP:SMALLDETAILS has some related guidance, but it's not explicitly mentioned what to do in this situation. As an example, Tom Smith and Thomas Smith are two completely separate disambiguation pages, due to the sheer number of people with these names, as well as the difference in actual article titles. Eagles 24/7 (C) 15:23, 13 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

You're missing the point. Are you sure that someone commonly known as Pat will never be referred to as Patrick? I think not. Hypocorysms are frequently not used in official publications, for instance. Therefore it's incomplete disambiguation. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:30, 13 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Necrothesp: If Pat Williams becomes commonly known as Patrick in the future, we will have to change the article name anyway to reflect that. WP:COMMONNAME says to use the name a person is most commonly referred to, and at the present time this person is typically referred to as "Pat" in reliable sources. There are two American football players with legal names "Patrick Williams", but one is commonly known as "Pat" so there's the disambiguation. No need to have a second disambiguation for their positions as well. Eagles 24/7 (C) 16:15, 13 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yes there is, as I have already clearly explained. -- Necrothesp (talk) 18:00, 13 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support. Differentiating by position makes sense. I don't think a Pat/Patrick differentiation should be made unless it can be shown that one of these two gentlemen strongly favored the shorthand "Pat" form of the name.--Bob not snob (talk) 07:44, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Bob not snob: I believe the defensive tackle strongly favors "Pat" as evidenced by his NFL.com profile, an ESPN article, a New York Times article, etc. I can't find too many sources on the wide receiver, but it seems that he is more commonly referred to as Patrick based on his Colorado football profile, a Rivals.com article, and a Green Bay Packers website article. Eagles 24/7 (C) 16:25, 13 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. Only one is known as Pat Williams, but they are both called Patrick Williams. The current disambiguation is therefore perfect. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:08, 13 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Necrothesp: I think there might be confusion with your oppose !vote here. Right now there is an article called Pat Williams (American football) and one called Patrick Williams (wide receiver). We should either move "Pat Williams (American football)" to "Pat Williams (defensive tackle)" or move "Patrick Williams (wide receiver)" to "Patrick Williams (American football)", because both of these players play American football but have different first names they are commonly referred to as and different playing positions. Eagles 24/7 (C) 16:18, 13 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Again, you seem to misunderstand. There is only one Pat Williams (American football), but there are two Patrick Williams (American football), one of whom is not referred to as Pat Williams. So the latter needs further disambiguation, but the former does not. -- Necrothesp (talk) 18:00, 13 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Necrothesp: There is currently an article titled Patrick Williams (wide receiver), but you said in your !vote that the current disambiguation scheme is "perfect". Even if I agreed that Pat is not different from Patrick, why would one article be called "American football" while another is called "wide receiver"? Okay, I understand your thought process with this, but I don't agree. I haven't seen something like that before, is there a guideline that supports this method or something similar that I can look at? Eagles 24/7 (C) 18:09, 13 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Every disambiguated entry at Patrick Williams cannot be analogously judged against another disambiguated entry, as evidenced by the previously-mentioned Pat Williams (Montana politician) {Pat Williams (politician) is a redirect} and Patrick Williams (Louisiana politician) {Patrick Williams (politician) is, as of this writing, a redlink. However, the also-previously-mentioned Patrick Williams (basketball) might retain the generic qualifier, per Pat Williams (American football), but Pat Williams (basketball), whose name is not indicated as being "Patrick" and who was not a basketball player, while also being involved with baseball, could be considered for a move to Pat Williams (basketball manager) or simply Pat Williams (manager). However, these would be elements for a separate Patrick/Pat Williams disambiguation discussion where additional options may be proposed to resolve any remaining confusion. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 02:23, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.