Talk:Pacific Highlands Ranch, San Diego

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Pacific Highlands Demographics[edit]

First of all, the city only sponsors the information given on this site [[1]]. Your link is to other information that is from another time (2006), which is not endorsed by the city-they only endorse information given in 2000.

Second of all, we can only use the information published by the government association published in 2000, because it is the only reliable information we have. Using the 2006 information, knowing it is just estimates, violates the Wikipedia rule regarding verifiable information, and original information. The information you provided was from 2006, and if it is not from 2000, then it cannot be used, because we know it is all just a guess. We must use the stuff given by both the city of San Diego and what we know about the census, which was held in 2000. [[2]] This site shows you how they only back the 2000 demographics, not the 2006 demographics you provided.

In theory, an encyclopedia would reject both because they are both original research given that they do not follow any census tracts used during the census of 2000, and census itself does not release smaller sample areas to validate these population figures. However, since San Diego did publish this page, it can be accepted. Please only use the statistics from the 2000 Census information by the government association, and not the 2006 given information.76.175.69.109 01:55, 10 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Response comment[edit]

"First of all, the city only sponsors the information given on this site [[3]]. Your link is to other information that is from another time (2006), which is not endorsed by the city-they only endorse information given in 2000."

San Diego Association of Governments (SANDAG) is made up of 18 cities, including San Diego. SANDAG does a lot of regional planning for San Diego County and that is why it is on their web site, which the City of San Diego endorses (as they are part of the association). Even if San Diego did not endorse it, SANDAG is a reliable source and to my knowledge Wikipedia has any guidelines that all demographics have to be endorsed by the city or federal government.

"Second of all, we can only use the information published by the government association published in 2000, because it is the only reliable information we have. Using the 2006 information, knowing it is just estimates, violates the Wikipedia rule regarding verifiable information, and original information."

I labeled them estimates because using 2000 Census data would be pointless because it does not give an accurate view of the current demographics, since the population increased over 1,000% between 2000 and 2006. Futhermore, If you read Wikipedia:Verifiability, it states that "'Verifiable' in this context means that any reader should be able to check that material added to Wikipedia has already been published by a reliable source"; if you read Wikipedia:Reliable sources, you will see that SANDAG is a reliable source; and if you read Wikipedia:Attribution#What is original research.3F, it states that "Original research is material that cannot be attributed to a reliable source." Try reading the Wikipedia guidelines before you assume they are being violated, which clearly in this instance they are not. Please stop reverting my reverts of your edits. Thank you.

—Christopher Mann McKay 04:27, 10 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The link I lead you to had a link to the 2000 demographics on the side of the web browser page.

And, I do not question the reliability of the municipalities, afterall who knows them better then the cities themselves? Nobody. However, when you get large associations together, their information can only be deemed reliable to a certain extent because they are not using real numbers given by any poll of people.

If all these boundaries followed census tracts, then it would all be fine, but the fact is that they do not follow census tracts. So how is that reliable if a person "guesses" how many people live in certain places and all their household statistics? Do you see what I mean? How can it be assumed that one household has 2 caucasian residents, or 3 asian residents when looking at specific households outside certain census tracts when this information was not released. It cant, at least without violating the original research rule.

However, since the city itself published this information, then I can give it more credability even though it doesnt have a whole lot of basis.

However, this is not my arguement. Now, to even make the research more original, they are taking their "imaginary residents" outside census tracts to conform to community boundaries and giving these people new incomes, assuming household sizes, assuming household race, etc. when we never even know that in the first place. Now, it is just becoming way too original research when you give "imaginary people" updated statistics.

Furthermore, I see that this community has grown. However, no census has been held since the figures were compiled in 2000 stating that there were 1000% less people than there were in the 2006 SANDAG update. Now, we are assuming 96% of the communities income levels, race, marriage and family situations, etc. Those are big assumptions to just "put" into a credible encyclopedia when as much as 96% of it is all a guess. Even the city does not recognize the new 2006 SANDAG update as valid, for it still has the 2000 statistics posted.

All I am saying is stick to the 2000 statistics for they are fairly reliable, although not completely. But the 2006 statistics are just too much of an assumption to believe, and to not be considered original research. 76.175.69.109 05:02, 10 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I am not sure how SANDAG estimated the 2006 figures, I would guess that they used drivers licenses and tax returns, but I'm unsure. If you want, e-mail them and ask how they got their figures, because I highly doubt they just guessed them. As for your original research claim, read Wikipedia:Reliable sources and Wikipedia:Attribution#What is original research.3F and you will see that these 2006 demographics estimates are not original research; I think you are misunderstood as to what Wikipedia's guidelines on original research are. —Christopher Mann McKay 15:53, 10 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Move discussion in progress[edit]

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Otay Mesa, San Diego, California which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RM bot 20:00, 8 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Move discussion in progress[edit]

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Otay Mesa, San Diego which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RM bot 23:00, 21 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]