Talk:Oxbow (band)

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Marianne Faithful Guest Vocals[edit]

Untitled[edit]

http://www.smother.net/interviews/oxbow.php and http://www.metal-archives.com/review.php?id=45822 both discuss Marianne Faithful's vocal contribution to the cover of Willie Dixon's "Insane Asylum." I initially thought to look here to find out who did the vocals, so it might be worth including. However, I'm wary of starting a new section and I think someone else may have a better idea for working the info into the existing article. It isn't mentioned in her article either, but relative fame may not make it noteworthy enough for her page. I did go ahead and add Oxbow/Faithful to the list of covers of Willie Dixon songs. --208.81.105.101 (talk) 19:48, 13 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Mention of Faithfull's contribution added with source. --Michig (talk) 21:20, 17 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Photos[edit]

There are free photos of the band avalaible on flickr. Xic667 (talk) 11:47, 14 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. Images now added. --Michig (talk) 21:20, 17 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Undue weight[edit]

By a word count, this article devotes almost 20% of it's prose to describing poor habits of Robinson. Could this be resolved by stating that he is known for his unconventional behavior, or something along those lines? Ryan Vesey Review me! 20:10, 17 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It may be that the singer's non-singing is the major topic of discussion in sources, perhaps dubious. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 20:18, 17 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Not any more, and it's a matter of opinion whether these are 'poor habits'. Replacing specific details with vagueness would not be an improvement. --Michig (talk) 21:20, 17 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Cajun Man[edit]

This was a brief mention in a review of one track that Robinson contributed to another artist's album. I don't fell that it is really helpful or useful to the reader to include this comparison here. --Michig (talk) 16:40, 18 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The Village Voice was the one reliable source from a reputable news publication in the article, and so it stood out. I was surprised to see that you had cited it to establish that Robinson was the singer of Oxbow.
It seems to me that the description of Robinson's singing should have some mention of criticism, particularly if reliable sources contain criticism even more than comparisons to Robert Plant and Nick Cave. 20:31, 18 July 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kiefer.Wolfowitz (talk • contribs)
It is an offhand comment about one track and is not representative of the coverage of Robinson's vocals, while the others are consistent with the majority of coverage. Why don't you give it a rest and walk away. --Michig (talk) 20:35, 18 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Michig,
WP is a collaborative encyclopedia, and this article is not your playpen. You have complete control of your sandbox---why not use it?
Kiefer.Wolfowitz 20:40, 18 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Your position is clear here and I see no point continuing this discussion with you. The views of other editors would of course be welcome. --Michig (talk) 20:55, 18 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The Voice has some of the world's most influential critics. The other sources are barely reliable and certainly low quality, if reliable. Can you find a reliable source ever reporting on one of the "awards" you listed? Kiefer.Wolfowitz 21:53, 18 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
On the topic of awards does being rated 2011's greatest LP by "Adam Anonymous" really count? I don't know what they do about their contributors, but it appears like this is the view of one man, not Drowned in Sound. Ryan Vesey Review me! 21:59, 18 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Well, Michig is deleting sourced quotations by the Village Voice, an article he added as a citation, which contains nothing on Oxbow apart from the Cajun Man slam of Robinson.
Why not continue selecting only positive evaluations, no matter how bizarre or incredible? The Screwtape Letters and Vice magazine's accolades trump WP's "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" policy. "Album of the Year" indeed. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 08:18, 19 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Robinson ain't David Thomas (Pere Ubu), but Oxbow does appear in several reliable sources. We don't need to quote from Wayne's World. Highbeam has several discussions of the band. Let's get rid of the sources discussing the nonsensical ("most unique") and absurdly vacuous ("sings between Robert Plant and Nick Cave"), and use RSes in English. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 22:17, 18 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • A few points here to hopefully knock this on the head: Firstly, the descriptions of the album as the best of 2007 are not awards, nor are they claimed to be - I will copyedit that section to clarify this. Secondly, this article is about the band Oxbow, and the Musical style section is about the musical style of the band Oxbow. What Eugene Robinson may or may not have sounded like on a guest vocal on a single track on an album by another artist is not relevant to this article. Finally, the fact that a writer uses poor English in a sentence has no bearing on the reliability of the publication in which the article appeared (or on my command of English since this insult has been thrown around elsewhere), otherwise we could use this as a reason to exclude virtually every publication in existence. --Michig (talk) 16:49, 19 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'll agree with you on Cajun Man. There is nothing stating that he sounds like that when singing with Oxbow. I still object to the reliability of the Drowned in Sound source and have marked it as possibly unreliable. Ryan Vesey Review me! 16:55, 19 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
DiS has been accepted for some time as a reliable source for album reviews. --Michig (talk) 17:07, 19 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I did some research and found that DiS has been repeatedly described as unreliable at RSN. See this and more importantly this. Drowned in Sound's terms state that "We accept no liability in respect of any material submitted by users and published by us and we are not responsible for its content and accuracy". The sight contains user submitted content, and the particular content we are dealing with was submitted by "Adam Anonymous". That hardly gives me confidence in the reliability of anything posted by him. In any case, the information presented by him is his opinion which means that it was described as the best album in 2007 by a contributor of DiS, not DiS itself. I find no reason for Wikipedia to feature the opinions of a contributor, hidden by anonymity, to a site that doesn't take responsibility for it's content or the accuracy thereof. Ryan Vesey Review me! 19:44, 19 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Note that if you still disagree with me, we can take this to RSN again. Ryan Vesey Review me! 19:44, 19 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Removing DiS (Adam Anonymous) removed the referent for this, which is moved here for safekeeping, pending the RS discussion.
and as "genius soundbites emerging from his catalogue of last real bluesman howls, yabbers and harrowing squeals".[1]
  1. ^ Cite error: The named reference DiS was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
    2. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 19:54, 19 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    Sorry about that, I checked for "Dis" and didn't get another link. I'm surprised I didn't find it. Ryan Vesey Review me! 19:56, 19 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    Dis is evil. You meant "DiS". Kiefer.Wolfowitz 20:01, 19 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    Surely. Ryan Vesey Review me! 20:11, 19 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    Those RSN discussions generally have a few users involved and cannot be regarded as authoritative decisions. DiS is a respected music website with a list of contributors listed here. You may note that it includes respected music writers such as John Robb and Everett True. The site has a forum section which anyone can contribute to, which is clearly not reliable, but the reviews by regular listed contributors certainly are. See the awards section here - this site meets the criteria of being a reliable source. If you want to raise it at RSN go ahead - it would have been more constructive to do that in the first place rather than removing the reference.--Michig (talk) 20:02, 19 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    Listed at WP:RSN#Is it acceptable to use Drowned in Sound as a source in Oxbow (band). Ryan Vesey Review me! 20:10, 19 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

    Highbeam sources[edit]

    This is an only slightly filtered list of sources I received in a search for Eugene Robinson Oxbow on Highbeam. Feel free to reformat the list in any way you like. Ryan Vesey Review me! 22:31, 18 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

    Good work! Kiefer.Wolfowitz 07:37, 19 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    The Buffalo News (a hs junior) wrote "it's all in his delivery. He doesn't necessarily scream or sing; he falls apart. His vocals are equally awkward, incomprehensible, disturbing, and forceful. Putting them together with the equally bizarre music creates a dizzying sense of gloom unlike anything you've probably heard." Jerry Seinfeld made a similar comment about sky-diving by a blind man and his seeing-eye German shepherd. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 07:48, 19 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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