Talk:Native American fashion/Archive 1
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| Archive 1 |
Scope of article
Amazing work! However, Wikipedia defines "Native American" as being Native Americans in the United States. The non-US material could be split into an Indigenous fashion of the Americas article. Ahalenia (talk) 16:52, 14 February 2018 (UTC)Ahalenia
- Ahalenia Yes, I am aware of the problem with definition, but the scope of the article was to discuss trends throughout the Americas. Indigenous American fashion will also take you to the article. It is a relatively new endeavor (mid-20th century) for indigenous designers to move their designs from artisan craft and personal dress to aim at the haute couture markets. More specifically, the trends—mainstream treatment of indigenous clothing as costumes, gaining acceptance through a pan-Indian approach, incorporating native designs in mainstream fashion, development of designers personal style—as the field has grown have been repeated throughout the Americas, so I felt that one article made more sense to show that the experience of designers has been similar, regardless of where they have lived or their tribal affiliation. Clearly as the field develops other articles can be split off, but I find that an "anchor article" so to speak, giving a broad overview is often helpful to understanding the complex history of things and their interrelatedness. Since there was no article on the subject and I kept encountering designers, it seemed that one was needed. Lots of work still to be done on the subject ;) SusunW (talk) 20:07, 14 February 2018 (UTC)
- Hi, since your proposed scope is hemispheric, then I'll formally propose moving the page to Fashion by indigenous peoples of the Americas. Ahalenia (talk) 21:30, 15 February 2018 (UTC)Ahalenia
- Ahalenia Yes, I am aware of the problem with definition, but the scope of the article was to discuss trends throughout the Americas. Indigenous American fashion will also take you to the article. It is a relatively new endeavor (mid-20th century) for indigenous designers to move their designs from artisan craft and personal dress to aim at the haute couture markets. More specifically, the trends—mainstream treatment of indigenous clothing as costumes, gaining acceptance through a pan-Indian approach, incorporating native designs in mainstream fashion, development of designers personal style—as the field has grown have been repeated throughout the Americas, so I felt that one article made more sense to show that the experience of designers has been similar, regardless of where they have lived or their tribal affiliation. Clearly as the field develops other articles can be split off, but I find that an "anchor article" so to speak, giving a broad overview is often helpful to understanding the complex history of things and their interrelatedness. Since there was no article on the subject and I kept encountering designers, it seemed that one was needed. Lots of work still to be done on the subject ;) SusunW (talk) 20:07, 14 February 2018 (UTC)
Requested move 15 February 2018
- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the move request was: no consensus to move the page at this time, per the discussion below. Dekimasuよ! 19:48, 22 February 2018 (UTC)
Native American fashion → Fashion by indigenous peoples of the Americas – As the article's author has stated, the scope of this article is all Indigenous peoples of the Americas, not just Native Americans in the United States, so the page name should reflect this and be in keeping with parallel articles, such as Visual arts by indigenous peoples of the Americas, Photography by indigenous peoples of the Americas, Category:Indigenous basket weaving of the Americas, Category:Public art by indigenous artists from the Americas, etc. Ahalenia (talk) 21:30, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
- "Native American fashion" results in 13,800,000 google hits, "indigenous American fashion" results in 1,030,000 hits and "Fashion by indigenous American peoples" results in 4,110,000. The article was created as a collaborative project during Women in Red's fashion editathon, thus, I take no credit except as a participant. We used the naming scheme because it follows the majority of sources with redirects for other searches. It really makes no difference to me what you call the article, but if I am understanding the proposal, it is to make it without redirects, which is illogical. The major source on the topic, Metcalfe (Chippewa), uses the term "Native American fashion" and discusses the evolution of the industry in the United States and Canada under that topic title. In searching for designers to include in the article, the majority of them were found using "Native American fashion" designers. Logic indicates that a redirect exist, if the article is renamed. SusunW (talk) 00:22, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
- If you peruse the other articles about Indigenous peoples of the Americas on Wikipedia, the usage has been consistent. "Native American" has been used for Native Americans in the United States. (Native American jewelry actually is only about jewelry by Native Americans in the United States.) I don't understand the thinkingthat there wouldn't be redirects. There are always redirects when an article is moved. Ahalenia (talk) 00:27, 16 February 2018 (UTC)Ahalenia
- The template above says no redirect. If that isn't what it means, then as I said, changing the name isn't objectionable, as long as redirects to the common name remain. SusunW (talk) 03:30, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
- I think the title should remain as it is. There is no reason why native American should apply only to the United States. If Wikipedia has been misusing the term, then corrections should be made. I have also noticed that many of the articles on indigenous peoples of the Americas deal first and foremost with those outside the United States. Once this discussion is over, I suggest having a redirect from "Fashion by indigenous peoples of the Americas", but doing so now could upset things.--Ipigott (talk) 10:51, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
- The template above says no redirect. If that isn't what it means, then as I said, changing the name isn't objectionable, as long as redirects to the common name remain. SusunW (talk) 03:30, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
- If you peruse the other articles about Indigenous peoples of the Americas on Wikipedia, the usage has been consistent. "Native American" has been used for Native Americans in the United States. (Native American jewelry actually is only about jewelry by Native Americans in the United States.) I don't understand the thinkingthat there wouldn't be redirects. There are always redirects when an article is moved. Ahalenia (talk) 00:27, 16 February 2018 (UTC)Ahalenia
- "Native American fashion" results in 13,800,000 google hits, "indigenous American fashion" results in 1,030,000 hits and "Fashion by indigenous American peoples" results in 4,110,000. The article was created as a collaborative project during Women in Red's fashion editathon, thus, I take no credit except as a participant. We used the naming scheme because it follows the majority of sources with redirects for other searches. It really makes no difference to me what you call the article, but if I am understanding the proposal, it is to make it without redirects, which is illogical. The major source on the topic, Metcalfe (Chippewa), uses the term "Native American fashion" and discusses the evolution of the industry in the United States and Canada under that topic title. In searching for designers to include in the article, the majority of them were found using "Native American fashion" designers. Logic indicates that a redirect exist, if the article is renamed. SusunW (talk) 00:22, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
- Oppose. The article is about fashion inspired by Native American styles, not clothes actually worn by indigenous peoples. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:47, 21 February 2018 (UTC)
- Actually it isn't. It is an article about how native designers have carved out a niche in the fashion industry to create clothing which may or may not incorporate traditional styles and iconography to be worn by the public at large—which may or may not include indigenous wearers of their designs. It is about a specific set of designers who have focused on fashion design to express their creativity and open doorways for evaluating cultural expression within mainstream fashion. SusunW (talk) 16:25, 21 February 2018 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.