Talk:My Chemical Romance/Archive 2

Stop this stupidity

I'm only going to say this once. Then people will start beginning edit wars here.

If there's something that we can simply all agree on without editing other people's works, is that My Chemical Romance is a rock band. We can't argue with that here. I don't give a damn if they're emo, or pop, or other kind's of bullshit. I would have to put this page on protection if vandalism is continued. If I can't, I'll simply find one who can. -Follow The Leader 21:18, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Of course their a rock band, but because this is an encyclopedia all of these sub-genres should be covered. Until we can come to an agreement then we should keep it rock, but maybe we should take the time now to come to an agreement. What exactly are they? Post-hardcore, Rock, Punk rock? Emo? I wouldn't say Pop Punk since they don't sound poppy or something like that. I personally wouldn't say Emo but if that's what they sound like it should be documented. So I think we should come up with at least an agreement so that we can finally end all the editing on a silly thing as a genre.  Orfen ^{User Talk} 21:47, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree with you. But this whole genre disputing on this article is getting out of hand and it's really tiresome for me and others as well. I will do my best to make some research on their genre. I would definitly like to see this edit war about the genre stop for once, though. -Follow The Leader 22:13, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

I feel we need to come to a consensus then as to what their genre is like they did on the Green Day article. On the talk page it is stated that their genres have been agreed upon and all changes will be reverted. I feel if we can figure out what their genres are and other people agree to it then we can at least put this war to an end for a little while at the very least.  Orfen ^{User Talk} 22:24, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

I think the best we're going to get is that they're an alternative rock band. Mention that, and that they have been variously labelled by media as "emo", "pop punk", "punk rock", "post-hardcore" and anything else, and that they say they are influenced by heavy metal, grunge, glam and anything else, all with proper citations of course. --Switch 12:31, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

I would have to say they are not pop punk because none of their music is pop punk. I think if there was enough reliable people saying they were emo then say that, but a majority of the people that say their emo don't know their music. For genres I would have to say Alternative Rock, Rock, Post-hardcore, and punk rock. Punk rock because they do have a punk rock influence and they do sound a little punk rock in some of their songs. But I would say they are the 4 genres I have stated but not pop rock, but POSSIBLY emo if enough a reliable source or person comes out and says it. We can say influences in the article, but we should find out the genres their music is first.  Orfen ^{User Talk} 20:01, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, but we should go with citations - All Music Guide calls them "an alternative pop/rock and punk pop band" and lists their genres as "Punk revival", "post-hardcore", "punk-pop" and "emo". MTV Online calls them "punk pop", AOL Music says "emo", "punk pop" and "punk revival", VH1 says more of the same, Amazon's official review says "indie-punk". Their official website only says "rock" and "violent, unsafe pop" (from Gerard Way). I think, going on most major media, we can say they are known as "Emo", "Post-hardcore" and "Pop punk". Most of those sites, again, said they had a pop punk influence, and looking at the article on pop punk, you can't really say they're wrong, or that they aren't pop punk. I think that should clear genres:

My Chemical Romance are an alternative rock band blah blah... They have been described variously by the media as "emo", "indie", "pop punk", "post-hardcore" or "punk revival". The band have described themselves as "rock" and "[[violent, unsafe pop", as well as rejecting the label "emo". Various influences to be cited are Thursday, The Cure, The Smiths, Iron Maiden...

...and whatever else you can find citations for. I am changing that to the article now, and if it changes it will be reverted. What it says there is accurate and indisputible. Maybe you don't think they're one of those genres; tough. I'm not claiming they are, I'm saying that's what the media has called them, and it's true.

Up next: getting their influences!--Switch 01:13, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

"My Chemical Romance has never described themselves as "unsafe pop" but I would say "unsafe and dangerous rock". They have also called themselves a touch of punk rock and they are not revival. I'll make my changes to that paragraph, but overall I think it is a good change.  Orfen ^{User Talk} 20:05, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Actually, on their official website, they do describe themselves as "violent and unsafe pop". You just need to look at their band history, third paragraph. I also don't think "punk revival" is a genre, but I read it in a few places so I'm not sure what should be going on there. Good news is that we're finally making progress. --Switch 08:18, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

So shouldn't we just write down the genres that their influences are. I'm pretty sure the influences I've heard mentioned are, Queen, Thursday, System of a Down, and the Misfits. íslenskur fellibylur #12 _(samtal) 01:58, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

To add to that, Pink Floyd especially on this new album. The Smiths and Morrissey as well. I believe Black Flag as well. I know from Frank's end there is Green Day and Gerard has said before he used to be into old Green Day. I think Ray said Metallica and other metal bands for him. Not sure, just trying to remember what was said on Life on the Murder Scene.  Orfen ^{User Talk} 02:32, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Also, I would like to add The Smashing Pumpkins. Stated in an interview by Gerard Way on www.mtv2.com and their $2 Bill performance.  Orfen ^{User Talk} 23:27, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

I Don't think Pink Floyd influence this band at all to be honest. And Alternative Rock is listed twice under their genre list and emo not at all...what gives? -Friend of Ron

ok. before we chose anything, lets cometo a defenition of emo, shall we? because really, ive heard about 3 completely different defenitions. ive heard tahts its suicidal depressed music, ive heard that is kinda loser-ish, and ive heard that its crybaby whinny music. personally, i think it has punk roots, but the lyrics are differentthan that of punk, as punk (TRUE punk, not simple plan or good charlotte) has rebellious and/or politically charged lyrics, whereas emo usually has depressed lyrics. in my opinion, mcr is a great example of emo. i mean come on; has anyonethat claims their not emo listened to the song "im not okay (i promise)"? that song is practically the anthem of all emo kids. and while were at it, im guessing the "violent unsafe pop" comment was a joke by gerard, because they are in no way pop or pop punk. like i said, i think their emo, but just to compensate for their being a tad bit more hardcore than other emo bands such as taking back sunday and brand new, lets call them hardcore emo. or emocore. whatever works.--Late Leo 22:06, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Reading it in context, on their website, it's not a joke. By the way, I'm changing it back to "violent, dangerous pop", which is what he said. --Switch 08:00, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

I think what he means by it is that they have popular music that is actually dangerous and violent. I don't think he means "pop" in the sense of say Justin Timberlake or something like that. I just think since they are now mainstream their music is popular and it is dangerous music.  Orfen ^{User Talk} 15:36, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Keep it Alternative Rock and delete all other genres and lock it up! --200.92.116.226 00:50, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

"Keep it Alternative Rock and delete all other genres and lock it up!"

How do you justify this. First off you seem to have ingnored the entire dicusion above you. My personal opinion is to go with the poular concensess of MTV AMG VH1 and all that stuff (even though i disagree with the pop punk thing" but i think we should put it to a vote. -JC

I think the constant denials of MCR being "pop" is not justified. Pop music utilizes musical techniques such as the chorus, catchy rhythm and lyrics. You can't deny that they use 'em. Even Frank quoted on L.O.T.M.S. that they had to learn how to use song structure. Pop does not mean the artist has to be a teenage bimbo in every case or anything - and when Gerard wrote "violent, dangerous pop" .. I think it was pretty accurate description. Their form of pop isn't safe and fluffy like Britney Spears. I think the "pop punk" is also too easily dismissed. They do mention on their DVD that they would tend to have a punk undertone due to various artists they are influenced by. Personally I think MCR fits best in "alternative rock" though. They do NOT fit into the "hardcore" genre. Even attached to "emo" it doesn't feel right. I listen to actual hardcore/metalcore, and I find MCR are quite different. If there was any connection it would be to metalcore due to their metal influences. -Maddy

Semi-Protection

I put this page under semi-protection due to heavily recent anonymous/new users vandalism. Let this be a warning to all standard users as well. Take my advice. I strongly urge you all to think before you edit. -Follow The Leader 18:47, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

In the little "info box" it says "Coutry: USA", what does that mean? MCR are pretty big everywhere, are they not? Shamess 20:59, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Their country of origin. So yeah, New Jersey, USA. All band pages should have it.  Orfen ^{User Talk} 21:03, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

WPMCR

Just reminding all those MCR fans out there to check out Wikipedia:WikiProject/List of proposed projects for Wikiproject: My Chemical Romance! Just add your name to the list of interested users and then add User:Icelandic Hurricane/Wikipedia:WikiProject My Chemical Romance. So far, there are two members. Once 5 users join, I'll make the project official. Hope you join! íslenskur fellibylur #12 _(samtal) 23:51, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Genre dispute talk page

As this talk page is quite long and a majority of it is about genre disputes, I propose we do with what they did on the Talk:Green Day page and make a Talk:My Chemical Romance/Genre dispute page. That way we can make this page shorter and we can try and hopefully settle the genre dispute once and for all since it isn't quite settled yet.  Orfen ^{User Talk} 21:16, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Or we could just move all the older discussions to Talk:My Chemical Romance/Archive 1. íslenskur fellibylur #12 _(samtal) 01:15, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

I thought about that as well, however, I feel that the genre dispute is an issue that should be resolved and a lot of the topics in the talk page are about genre disputes, I think we just need an ongoing talk page or something so people know where exactly to go and don't keep making new sections. That's just how I looked at it.  Orfen ^{User Talk} 01:32, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Then just do whatever you think is best. I don't really care. íslenskur fellibylur #12 _(samtal) 01:35, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Ok, I archived the talk page. Kept the recent topics and moved the rest to the archive.  Orfen ^{User Talk} 22:27, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

why not just put the genre that they have on their myspace. if they dont know what genre they play, then no one else ever will. Dizzydark 23:40, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

The argument other people are saying is saying what genre your band is and what your band's genre really is, is two different things. For example, if I start a band and say our genre is Jazz but we really play Metal. I personally think that My Chemical Romance is Alternative Rock, Rock, Punk Rock, and Post-Hardcore. Originally before this emo war started I believe that is what was listed and I believe it to be true. One of the main reasons the label "emo" has been slapped on My Chemical Romance is because of the song "I'm Not Okay". I also think that just because their genre on one song might change that doesn't mean their main genre is that. "I'm Not Okay" is not an emo song however I think there could be a song or two that could be considered emo. Anyways, that's my thoughts on the genre.  Orfen ^{User Talk} 23:57, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

"I'm Not Okay" not an emo song? Sounds pretty emo to me. -- Anonymous, 25/10/06

I think the only emo songs in 3 Cheers 4 sweet revenge are Cemetery Drive and It's not a fashion statement, it's a deathwish. íslenskur fellibylur #12 _(samtal) 21:18, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

I could probably agree with that, especially Cemetery Drive. I'm not sure about Deathwish since the whole concept with that is revenge and not really emo or something. I could see how it could be considered though.  Orfen ^{User Talk} 03:02, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

The main problem is, if we listed what bands say they are as their genre, then Linkin Park would be "metal", Good Charlotte would be "punk", Motion City Soundtrack would be "punk-glazed bubblegum indie rock", Motörhead would just be "rock and roll" and System of a Down wouldn't even have a genre. Going with reviews from real critics is a much better system. --Switch 13:48, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

i agree with that, but hey claim that their rock, metal, post hardcore. that seems pretty damn close to me. Dizzydark 21:47, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

1. Can't allow a precedent. For the sake of consistency, it has to be the same criteria for each article. 2. They are not metal. Go to the Heavy Metal talk page if you need more clarification. --Switch 16:23, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

I would have to agree that they are not metal either, even though there is many different types of metal. So what can we agree upon so we can finally get this resolved? I say Alternative Rock is already in. But can we agree with Post-Hardcore then?  Orfen ^{User Talk} 16:43, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Sure. íslenskur fellibylur #12 _(samtal) 16:44, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Emo has not bee agreed upon yet. That's the main dispute with the genre. I think My Chemical Romance might have a few songs that could be considered emo but there isn't enough for their whole genre to be considered emo.  Orfen ^{User Talk} 19:53, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Oh, my bad. íslenskur fellibylur #12 _(samtal) 21:46, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

That's fine, I was just saying why I changed it. I think Post-Hardcore was sort of agreed upon a while ago so I left that but I think we need more people to agree before we should start changing it.  Orfen ^{User Talk} 22:30, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

errr, post-hardcore is a must. the only band that i've ever seen rival their vocalist's energy is the Strike Anywhere vocalist, and trust me, they're band is definetly post-hardcore. i wouldn't say that their metal, only because they're music is loud and stuff. there's more to metal than volume. also, as for emo, i'd agree pretty much on that because when tons of people think of the word "emo" their mind just jumps to MCR. as for the alternative rock part, of course! if you go onto myspace and stuff, half the rock bands there put themselves as rock/alternative. alternative is really broad, so of course MCR fits into them. they're slightly pop punk, but only because their songs are slightly pop-minded, but it's hard not having any at all.66.57.12.148 00:54, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

I would agree with this. However I don't think we should add the genre as emo, but merely mention they are often thought of as emo. Also, I agree with the current Horror rock genre because they are influenced by horror films and such and that could help explain the sort of "emo" thing people are getting at. Currently I'd have to say post-hardcore, alternative rock, and horror rock. Maybe punk rock/punk/pop punk as well.  Orfen ^{User Talk} 22:07, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

It all depends on whether you are going to specify that they are third wave emo. The emo article is really accurate, and I'm sure no one who has heard Rites Of Spring would say MCR are in any way similar. That said they are very closely linked with what is now termed emo. I guess it depends how much of a purist you are. User: miss.k

The article says the media calls them "emo", I think that's enough. We should only have a couple of genres in the infobox - I like having Alternative rock and Horror rock. --Switch 12:01, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Neutrality

Can someone who isnt a complete nerd rewrite all that stuff about fan fiction? or can we take it out? its completely unecessary and obviously written by someone who knows way to much about it. stop writing gay stories about original bands who get really big and then becuase of their talent play themselves into the "sellout" corner! (very reminicent of green day in the past several years) Avenged Evanfold 00:56, 30 September 2006 (UTC) p.s. and yes i do mean original, they were one of the firsts to do this kinda stuff, its not their fault people like i so much they want to make exact copies of their music.

It's still sourced criticism which is the issue they were having with the Green Day article recently. They didn't have sourced criticism but no one wanted to take it out. We sort of in the opposite right now. We have sourced criticism (the fan fiction) and everyone wants it out. I think it needs to stay in there because it is neutral. Both sides are covered. I will look at it and see if I can make it a little better but it needs to stay in because it's sourced.  Orfen ^{User Talk} 01:32, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

I reworked the whole section to my best ability, however some stuff still needs sources and it might need some more work. Basically about the fan fiction though I removed the specifics since we don't really need to know who the fan fiction is about. Other than that I worked some stuff around to try and make it a little more organized.  Orfen ^{User Talk} 01:52, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

picture

i found some decent photos on this site [1]. id add one myself, but i've no clue how to cits it.Dizzydark 00:51, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

I don't know if we're allowed to use that pic. Someone should contact an admin. íslenskur fellibylur #12 _(samtal) 15:59, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Dead!

There are two pages for the song Dead!...

1. Dead!
2. Dead!

CustardToast 15:52, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

NOt anymore. íslenskur fellibylur #12 _(samtal) 13:56, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

WPMCR

I'm kinda busy right now, but someone can move the temporary project page for WPMCR to a normal wikiproject page and make it an official wikiproject. íslenskur fellibylur #12 _(samtal) 15:46, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Sure, done... I added a redirect on your User Page one, so if you don't want that you can always just delete it, but it's at Wikipedia:WikiProject My Chemical Romance and a shortcut at WP:MCR. Was wondering when you were going to get around to doing the page, I can add more to it later.  Orfen ^{User Talk} 23:24, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Why is there a WikiProject? What can you possibly achieve with a specialised WikiProject for MCR that you couldn't within a more general one? --Jamdav86 09:39, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

EMO

Stop putting emo in the genre they reject the term they do not have emo lyrics , just a bit their physical apperance , that all, but their music is not EMO

• of course they reject the term it's insulting...

Where did the emo thing come from? They're more goth than emo (though they're not really that either, their image is neo-goth, not emo).

They're not goth at all. AT ALL.

They're an overtly theatrical, very trendy pop-punk/alternative rock band with a singer who sounds like he's been emasculated. That's why people think they're emo. It's not hard to understand. They embody many of the musical elements people associate with "emo" these days. --Switch 03:06, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Wrong, emo is classified from a lyrical stance. Emo is about candy asses singing about how much their life sucks and crap like that. And Revolver(I think) listed them as part the deathrock revival, and they apparently didn't take issue with that, so that comparison is valid. Though not actually be part of the GR/DR genre, but that IS where their original image comes from, it is a parody of the "conventions".

1. Emo is classified in various different ways by different people. See Emo (music). Additionally, some people use the emo slang term to refer to bands as "emo". Even in the earliest days of emo, when it actually had a relatively static meaning, it did not only refer to lyrics.

2. Deathrock is not gothic rock, despite their similarities. (Edit: Deathrock is totally synonymous with Batcave-era Goth Rock.) (Another edit actually by Switch: MCR was not around in the Batcave era. The members were like four years old then.)

3. The "deathrock revival" was probably yet another euphemism for what most people call "emo". I don't remember any recent influx of deathrock bands. If you can remember the magazine and issue, I'll add that to the article though.

4. Okay, they wore makeup and lots of black. What else about their image was goth? They never looked much like Bauhaus or The Sisters of Mercy. Or even The Cure or Siouxsie and the Banshees, which are bands considered to be outside of what is strictly goth but still have an archetypal gothic appearance. If they had had teased, wild hair, drab clothing or Victorian or Elizabethan style clothing, excessive amounts of jewelry, large pewter crosses and belt buckles, big boots, and/or a BDSM-influenced/heavily sexualised image, that would make sense. But they never did. --Switch 08:53, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Maybe we should bring this up at Wikipedia:WikiProject Emo music. íslenskur fellibylur #12 _(samtal) 13:57, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Here's the link. íslenskur fellibylur #12 _(samtal) 14:02, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

I'd hazard a guess that the person claiming they're part of gothic rock/deathrock doesn't know what they are talking about. There is a DR revival of sorts but this band is not part of it. The revivial of sorts is based in small clubs in California and London, as well as small festivals (in Germany for one). This band haven't played any of these, and don't have the same musical characteristics as any the bands that do.

Its ridiculous history revisionism by fans trying to distance this band from the "emo" tag which detractors have put on them. The fact that one member of the band had longish black hair doesn't make them "goth", or should we continue with the history revisionism and try and make out Frank Sinatra and Elvis Presley were gothic musicians too? - Deathrocker 12:36, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

You do have a point and I don't think they are gothic rock/deathrock however, I believe that just because they didn't play at a certain club or something doesn't mean they aren't a certain genre. We're talking about musical aspects, not location or style. I know location is an influence on someone's music but it doesn't necessarily make the music. I agree with what you mean though we shouldn't just assume they are gothic or DR because of how they look or whatever but I don't think we should assume genre based on location either. Just a thought.  Orfen ^{User Talk} 20:49, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Not horror punk

They are NOT horror punk. Having a sort of horror/goth influenced image does not make them horror punk. Dwnsjane2 19:44, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Horror rock is music about vampires and stuff, which makes them Horror rock, or atleast their first 2 albums. íslenskur fellibylur #12 _(samtal) 23:19, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Yes, the genre is for their music which is influenced by horror films. It has a somewhat supernatural or movie, theatrical feel to it. I do not believe it was horror punk that was listed as the genre but rather horror rock, which is different.  Orfen ^{User Talk} 00:03, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

The band do not play horror rock music and have nothing to with the style of music described on that genres page. Just when you thought the insane genre disputes for this band were over... it starts again haha. - Deathrocker 12:23, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

That's because there isn't a page for horror rock; it's a redirect to horror punk, which they most certainly do not play. --Switch 00:59, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

There is an element of punk in their music. No it's probably not their primary genre and horror rock or horror punk probably isn't either, however there is still a little bit of influence. There are plenty of songs dealing with the supernatural and other horror elements. "Vampires Will Never Hurt You" is most certainly one of them. Also a lot of the songs on their new album have to do with Hell and demons. The 2nd album was about making a deal with the devil. I'm not saying it is their primary genre but I'm saying it should be listed because it has been talked about in their music and not just once or twice.  Orfen ^{User Talk} 01:05, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Orfen. íslenskur fellibylur #12 _(samtal) 01:12, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

It isn't as simple as that, White Zombie and Rob Zombie cover similar topics, such as the devil and vampires.. but they do not play horror rock either, neither does Alice Cooper because that isn't the specific form of music they play. Its a defined musical form with characteristics that this band doesn't play. - Deathrocker 12:29, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Characteristics such as? íslenskur fellibylur #12 _(samtal) 22:50, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Predominantly punk rock music, and Doo-wop musical elements. Read into bands who are part of that genre and compare them to this band, they are not one and the same. - Deathrocker 11:31, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

AHHHHHHH!!!!!!! My mind keeps spinning with this! I keep having to change the genres on my iPod! I wish My Chemical Romance just had its own genre. It should, and I heard it had been considered. But what to call it. Violent Rock? Unsafe Rock? Whatever. íslenskur fellibylur #12 _(samtal) 11:49, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Also... before somebody says, but "they claim to be influenced by the Misfits"... they claim to be influenced by Iron Maiden too... Iron Maiden have worn black, sing about "the beast", just look at one of their album covers, etc... should we pretend that MCR are part of New Wave of British Heavy Metal due to this? Even though like horror rock, they don't have the same musical characteristics as that genre either? - 11:55, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

They're also not Post-Hardcore since none of the members were even in a Hardcore Punk band. --Inhumer 21:10, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

That isn't a requirement for a band to be a certain genre. My Chemical Romance is about My Chemical Romance and not what the members have done in other bands. But about the horror punk/horror rock thing... If the article says that The Misfits are horror punk and My Chemical Romance does claim them as an influence and they do have songs about horror movies, books, and other horror themes shouldn't they be horror rock?  Orfen ^{User Talk} 21:45, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

"Horror rock", maybe. But horror rock doesn't have an article, and it redirects to horror punk, which they don't play. Tough call.

But Post-Hardcore is really just a term that refers to non-Hardcore Punk bands whose members were previously in Hardcore Punk bands. --Inhumer 02:37, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

No, it isn't. It's a genre with defined characteristics. --Switch 11:22, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Not really. --Inhumer 23:43, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Not really what? Can you please elaborate on your comment?  Orfen ^{User Talk} 23:56, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Not really--Inhumer 23:58, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Also, going by that article, MCR still don't fit into it--Inhumer 00:03, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

I know. But that's neither here nor there. They are certainly not a horror punk band. And as "horror rock" is only a redirect to horror punk, we probably shouldn't list them as that either. Agreed? --Switch 11:10, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Merchandiase

Should we create a section on merchandise? I think it should be done, but I don't think I would be the person to write it. Also, what about a tribute section? íslenskur fellibylur #12 _(samtal) 14:13, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm no sure it really needed. If you could make it sound likes its important to how the band works then maybe it would fit.--Lotrgamemast 17:01, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

I would have to agree. I don't feel it is really needed because they don't have any Merchandise that is out of the ordinary and needs to be mentioned. They got t-shirts, action figures, and loads of other clothing and little extra stuff. I just feel it needs to be mentioned. If you could however find a good enough reason to add it, I would support it but right now I just don't see it. What would a tribute section be like though?  Orfen ^{User Talk} | _Contribs 18:00, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Just mentioning any tributes to the band. Like I found a violin quartet tribute to MCR that's pretty cool. So I thought mentioning tributes to the band should be mentioned because it shows that they're very well known. íslenskur fellibylur #12 _(samtal) 18:24, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

I know a couple bands did some tribute CD with some of MCR's songs on it. I don't know, there might be some place for it in there, but I don't know. I'm not sure if it needs another section, maybe it does, but maybe it can be fit into the article somewhere.  Orfen ^{User Talk} | _Contribs 18:26, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Under Pressure Video

I was wondering if we should add the video MTV2 has, for their "Under Pressure" song, from YouTube ([2]). I was going to add it, but I wasn't sure if it was against any copyright policies (as far as I know, it's not protected, as it hasn't been released).

Just to be safe, I'd say don't add it since it's not really needed. It could and quite possibly is against copyright policies, but to make sure I'd say don't add it since there isn't an absolute need for a movie of "Under Pressure" mentioned.  Orfen ^{User Talk} | _Contribs 20:32, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Genres in infobox - voting method

Here are the genres that it has been suggested be put in MCR's infobox. This is the place to debate the inclusion of those genres. Please inset rebuttals using colons (:) at the start of the line you are typing, and mark as rebuttals using italics. --Switch 11:22, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Alternative rock

For

MCR clearly fit into the alternative rock genre. As their genre is the source of much controversy, I think it should be left simply as "alternative rock" in the infobox, with the article giving additional information as it currently does. --Switch 11:22, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

MCR does fit into alternative rock.  Orfen ^{User Talk} | _Contribs 20:11, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

I too think MCR fits perfectly into this category. They aren't to hardcore and they aren't to punk, so I think alternative rock fits perfectly for the band. - MyChemical 14:31, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Against

They are simple far too mainstream orientated these days, to be considered an 'alternative' band. --Neon white 13:55, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Horror rock

For

MCR does have horror rock songs. Their music is influenced by horror movies and they have a horror style to their look. Their song titles even have a horror reference. I suggest if we cannot come to an agreement to use the link I suggest that we just put horror rock into the genre box because they still play horror rock. It is music influenced by horror movies and one of their influences is The Misfits which are listed in the horror punk article. I suggest we just list the genre even if we're not going to link to it.  Orfen ^{User Talk} | _Contribs 20:14, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Having neo goth imagery doesn't make them a horror rock band. Horror rock is basically the same genre as horror punk. Which they are not. True, they claim to be influenced by the Misfits (Which is the only horror punk band they claim to be influenced by). And as you should know the Misfits have influenced many bands outside of horror punk. Dwnsjane2 22:45, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Against

Horror rock, as you can see, does not have its own article and redirects to horror punk. They certainly do not meet the characteristics given in that article. As listing a genre they may fall under which redirects to a genre they don't fall under may confuse some users, it should not be included in the infobox. --Switch 11:22, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Beat me to saying it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dwnsjane2 (talk • contribs) 22:48, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Strongly against; their music does not share the characteristics of bands who are part of this genre. - Deathrocker

Emo

For

See here.

Against

See here.

Post-hardcore

For

I do not understand where in the article it says that MCR could not qualify as not being Post-Hardcore. Their singer has an intensity to his vocals and their guitar playing is also intense. Their drum ryhthms are often simple but heavy. I am not sure how they are not post-hardcore. It says in the article that it is sometimes described as "sometimes amateurish musicianship of punk rock." MCR does have a punk element to them. If they are not post-hardcore and they are not punk rock, then what are they? Because there is still a slight bit of punk in their music and just about every song has that element. It isn't just one or two songs.  Orfen ^{User Talk} | _Contribs 20:19, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

It says that post-hardcore bands eschew (that means forgo; so not comply to) the amateurish musicianship of punk. Their guitars aren't that intense, they don't have precise and unsyncopated rhythms, they don't feature "unique balance of dissonance and melody", or dissonance at all for that matter, they don't have "intensity and social awareness as well as a DIY punk ethic". Being influenced by punk doesn't mean you have to be either punk rock or post-hardcore. You could be any of the hundreds of alternative music subgenres. --Switch 06:04, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Furthermore the article states "However, the usage of this term does not mark a musical movement but rather a group of bands who draw influences from punk, emo, hardcore, metal, etc." Some of MCR's influences are punk bands and metal bands. Such as Iron Maiden, The Misfits, and Thursday (which is considered a Post-hardcore band).  Orfen ^{User Talk} | _Contribs 20:26, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

So? Most of Metallica's influences are hardcore (Black Flag, Misfts) and heavy metal. Does that make them post-hardcore? No. What about Nirvana? AFI? Caustic Christ? They aren't post-hardcore. --Switch 06:04, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

I disagree with most of that. The band basically lost their post-hardcore influences after their first album. Dwnsjane2 22:40, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

So then we can put in the infobox "Post-Hardcore 2001-2004" and then whatever they are now after it. íslenskur fellibylur #12 _(samtal) 00:15, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

I still believe that they are still Post Hardcore, but I would agree with this. To put the years if the community believes that they are no longer Post-Hardcore.  Orfen ^{User Talk} | _Contribs 00:19, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

I wouldn't say one album that (sort of) belonged to the genre would constitute it being added as a primary genre for the band. Dwnsjane2 04:21, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree. --Switch 06:04, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Against

Do not meet the characteristics given on the article. Also bear no musical resemblance to archetypal post-hardcore bands such as Fugazi etc. --Switch 11:22, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Agreed Dwnsjane2 22:47, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Pop-punk

For

Yes they are pop-punk. Simply because if you look at many music sites, they are listed as pop-punk. Hell, look at their own biography "My Chemical Romance are an alternative pop rock/pop punk band...." Dwnsjane2 22:38, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

I'd say this along with Alternative rock, the music they play has similarities to some bands in this movement, and they have also played Warped Tour with many similar acts. - Deathrocker

Strong support for pop punk. Nearly all sites call them that, including respected journals. --Switch 06:12, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Against

I feel MCR does not fit into pop-punk. Their music is completely different from the bands stated in the article. MCR's sound is different than Green Day, Good Charlotte, Fall Out Boy, and Panic! at the Disco just to name a few. The sound of MCR and the sound of those bands is two different things. Although MCR does have an element of punk in their music, I do not feel it can be compared to a Green Day sound but rather a more aggressive sounding punk.  Orfen ^{User Talk} | _Contribs 20:23, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

They sound similar to Bad Religion and A Wilhelm Scream, not to mention them not being all that different than Panic! at the Disco. Pop-punk covers a wide variety of styles, and Warped Tour - which they've been on - is almost exclusively a pop-punk tour. --Switch 06:10, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

I also feel MCR does not fit into the pop-punk genre. They aren't like most pop-punk bands, let alone sound like them. To me they are just plain rock, they aren't two hardcore, so they are easy to understand what they are saying when they sing, which makes them an awesome band to listen to. - MyChemical 14:23, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Genres in infobox - sourced method

Try googling the band, find respectable sites and look at what the band is categorized as. This helped for the Taking Back Sunday article. Darthgriz98 20:29, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree. However, I would take it to another level. Go through all the magazines with MCR in that you have, note the magazine name, issue, date, page number, interviewer and place in a Genre section your findings, which will have headings for all the genres mentioned. It will have footnotes, and include websites as well. In the infobox, you write "Disputed" with a link to the genre section.

We do not make a decision on the genre, we just present the facts. To make a decision would be POV. --Jamdav86 09:39, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Okay, then here's a short list of their genres:

Pop punk. Punk rock (and punk revival). Hardcore. Post-hardcore. Emo. Metal. Deathrock. Alternative rock. Pop rock. Pop. Horror rock. Indie rock. Hard rock. Gothic rock (and neo-goth). Post-punk (and Post-punk revival).

Do you think we should put all those genres in the infobox? The point of the discussion is not to determine which genre MCR is, but to determine whether or not a genre they play (or don't play) belongs in the infobox. There is already a paragraph in the article - the second one, in fact - that goes over the fact that they have had many labels applied to them. Unless you want nearly every alternative rock subgenre in the infobox, I don't think that would be a great idea. We are trying to limit the infobox to only including primary genres, or labels most often and accurately applied. --Switch 06:55, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

No. I think you should have "Disputed" in every MCR infobox with a link to a section of the MCR article discussing the genre, which will include all of the above with multiple references, to show there is no OR in the article. --Jamdav86 10:48, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

I actually like this idea better. Since it is so hard to determine the actual genre and there is so many conflicted reports I feel we should just create a section in the article discussing their genre and then possibly their influences as well. If we have a source for everything then this is a good idea because there shouldn't be original research in Wikipedia. I say we do as said above, put Disputed in the infoboxes and then have a section in the article (not the main paragraph) describing all their genres sourced. That way everything will be covered and there won't be possible POV issues.  Orfen ^{User Talk} | _Contribs 17:41, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Okay, I understand now. How about instead, we list the genre they definitely belong to (alternative rock) in the infobox, as well as having a section discussing the various genres they supposedly belong to in the article, and what they say on the matter, etc.? Essentially, the same thing but with "Alternative rock" and "Disputed subgenres", not just "Disputed". Does that make everyone happy? --Switch 05:09, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm fine with that, as long as everything is listed then I'm fine with it.  Orfen ^{<;font color=#FF0000>User Talk} | _Contribs 21:02, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

I always find band articles on wikipedia amusing for this very reason... genre disputes, lol. It's great how various fans always seem to invent sub-sub-genre upon sub-genre. As regards your sourced method idea - well it seems the obvious way to go. Ever been to metacritic.com? See here. There's all the sources you'll need to make a start on this, and a suggested starting point of "Alternative, Rock, Emo". Hardcore-punk? Post-Hardcore? Pop-punk? keep inventing them I'm sure no-one will take any notice. aLii 13:54, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Jack the Ripper

I think that we should some how incorporate info on the song Jack the Ripper (song) into the article. If any of you don't know about the unreleased song, it's right here. And if there are any other unreleased MCR songs i don't know about, I think they should be mentioned too. íslenskur fellibylur #12 _(samtal) 00:55, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

A "Songs covered" section would sort that out. --Jamdav86 09:39, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Sorry guys, this isn't a fansite. I've already removed that kind of content from the Rage Against the Machine page, where it was probably more notable as they actually had heaps of unrecorded/unreleased songs. It should probably be removed. --Switch 03:54, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Gay rumors?

What is this crap about them being gay? can someone clear up this? Or is that just MCR flaming and that fan fic crap? Just wanted to clear this up. Zombieminion 26 October 2006 (UTC)

It's all fake. íslenskur fellibylur #12 _(samtal) 21:36, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Hardcore Punk

Aren't they Hardcore punk?--Kingforaday1620 21:56, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

IMO, yes. íslenskur fellibylur #12 _(samtal)

IMO, not even slightly. --Switch 10:46, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

It's debatable, reinforcing the need to put "Disputed" in the genre field (see above). --Jamdav86 16:44, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

why cant we just leave it at rock? thats what it is. MCR is not alternative, but it certainly isnt pop either.

MCR is definitely, absolutely, certainly alternative rock, despite not being "alternative" in the "non-mainstream" sense. It doesn't mean they're an underground band, it means they belong to that genre. --Switch 03:37, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism

I think we should remove the banner that disables new or unregistgered users from editing from vandalism. It has been there since at least before Mid-July, and it's been there long enough. Also, I think the bottled section about them playing in London should be merged with another part of the article. User:Coocooforcocopuffs 02:21, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

"Disputed genres" section

I went ahead and changed the infobox and created a Genre disputes and influences section linking from it. Please do some research and add more subgenres the band has been labelled/have labelled themselves or more influences the band has cited, as well as adding some citations to the subgenres currently there. Thanks. --Switch 05:12, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Great! It may look crappy at the moment, but this is the sort of thing that should grow. Citations for every genre please, and multiple citations are welcomed. --Jamdav86 17:28, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

I've quickly added a couple of citations. However, they've apparently made over their site for the new album, removing the part of the site in which they described themselves as "rock" and "violent, dangerous pop", and I can't find a mirror anywhere. There are several other pages that describe the band using that phrase, but most are wiki mirrors, and none of the others point out that the band themselves said it. So I don't know how to add a citation for that now. --Switch 09:55, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Their genres.

I think that they're post-hardcore, pop punk (or punk pop, whatever) and horror rock. You know, just that there won't be debates about that any more, we have to list three or four genres they fall in. Litis 16:26, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

How about the genre 'Mainstream'? Because they are technically a mainstream band. They aren't pop/rock.. they aren't alternative rock.. do they sound anything like Radiohead? no. They aren't metal.. thats for sure. Calling them Emo would be desirable, seeing as most of their fans seem to fit into that genre. That and they once called themselves 'Emo' before that term became degrading.

I just don't think they are heavy enough to be considered rock. The voice is not rock. The instruments are pop. the voice is high pitched.. definitive in most pop/mainstream bands.

Just my two cents.

--Wikiphreak 20:25, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

The grenres are fine how it is now because it is a way to not have any POV. Also they are rock because it is the style of music they play which can be classified through the drum rhythms and guitar rhythms. You don't have to be "heavy" to be considered rock. Mainstream is also not a genre. They are also alternative rock because they have an element of punk but probably people won't be able to agree with punk rock or punk as a genre. The genre list is fine how it is because the genres are sourced and if you can find a source put it into the section.  Orfen ^{User Talk} | _Contribs 21:15, 3 November 2006 (UTC)