Talk:Matthew Perry/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

Semi-protected edit request on 29 October 2023

In the death section, it says that he was founded in his apartment. He lived in a house so I would change this as it is incorrect. 124.170.97.93 (talk) 01:39, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

 Done Rkieferbaum (talk) 02:02, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

First paragraph after brief details (personal section)

Just a minor grammar issue. "Perry starred in in the television..". Doubled up 'in'. Pls change at your earliest convenience. Thanks. Also, the following sentence is incorrect too (of the 1st paragraph, as above)). You may want to amend that also. Thanks again. 120.16.10.56 (talk) 05:06, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

 Done –  Thanks, fixed. Fuzheado | Talk 05:22, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

Cheers 120.16.10.56 (talk) 06:19, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

Religion

Write down what religion he was from and his family also 223.123.105.72 (talk) 07:48, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

Cropped photo

I had cropped the photo in the infobox to be taller and bigger generally, I think it looks better cropped but that got reverted. Thoughts? TheLoyalOrder (talk) 03:35, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

Clarifying - used {{CSS image crop}} to do the crop TheLoyalOrder (talk) 03:36, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

I see someone changed the photo. I've changed it back this once. I suggest we get some consensus on what the best photo going forward to be the main one in the infobox. Personally think the 2012 photo is better over the 2013 one TheLoyalOrder (talk) 08:32, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

Also the photo to the right with him smiling a bit TheLoyalOrder (talk) 08:41, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

Nationality RfC

Heya. I just want to inform to ya about something. As stated in MOS:CONTEXTBIO, "In cases of public or relevant dual citizenship, or a career that spans a subject's emigration, the use of the word and reduces ambiguity."

Since Perry has dual American and Canadian citizenship, here are two choices for the proposed nationality changes in both the lead and the shortdesc. All of ya should vote.

• A. "American and Canadian"
• B. "American-Canadian"

What kin ya say? Whaddaya guys think? RMXY (talk • contribs) 10:12, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

Agreed, changed per MOS:CONTEXTBIO. Celjski Grad (talk) 10:29, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

Please stop!

My editor friends, Perry's death is a sensational story that is breaking and many of you are struggling to resist the temptation to read a newspaper or a story online and jump to Wikipedia to add things like you were a reporter. Please consult WP:NOTEVERYTHING: "Information should not be included in this encyclopedia solely because it is true or useful." We don't include facts simply because we know them. We are not a newspaper! We do not report on current events that are, at this point, moving targets. Please consult WP:NOTNEWS, where we are reminded that we don't write as if we were writing for a newspaper, awaiting the release of updated information. We write facts that will not change. I cannot emphasize this enough: encyclopedia style is different from any other writing style. Don't be afraid of short sentences. I cannot remove the inappropriate content here fast enough. When I try to remove it, I get an alert that I am editing an old version. You guys are editing so fast that it is difficult to try to bring this article back into proper style. Please stop trying to be newspaper reporters. His death is a moving target. The ONLY things that are appropriate at this point is that Matthew Perry died, when he died and how he died. What law enforcement says about this and that is inappropriate at this point. Please know this comes from a good place in me. I know you all are trying to do your best and that your edits are coming from a good place with you. Thank you so much for your contributions, but we must show restraint here. All the best to all of you. MarydaleEd (talk) 03:59, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

I added a draft for Matthew Perry's death so people can edit on it. Draft:Death of Matthew Perry SussyBakaSussyImposter (talk) 04:20, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

Comment about not needing an article on the death has been moved to above - Fuzheado | Talk 12:05, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

No. 173.240.131.117 (talk) 04:14, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

MarydaleEd. You are misunderstanding WP:NOTNEWS. Please read it carefully. It says Editors are encouraged to include current and up-to-date information within its coverage. What do you think that it says? Cullen328 (talk) 04:26, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

Thank you. We do not report information that is changing by the hour. This incident is under investigation and we do not report as newspapers do. I probably could have better used a different source, WP:RSBREAKING. "Breaking-news reports often contain serious inaccuracies. As an electronic publication, Wikipedia can and should be up to date, but Wikipedia is not a newspaper and it does not need to go into all details of a current event in real time. It is better to wait a day or two after an event before adding details to the encyclopedia, than to help spread potentially false rumors." All you have to do is look at the history to see how fast this article was being editing. Yes, many of them are mine, but once I go to an article to read something, I am going to edit the entire article while I am there. All I am suggesting is that we exercise an little restraint, follow the rules and slow down the breaking news editing. We are not a newspaper. Again, thanks for giving me an opportunity to clarify my point and my reference. And, thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. All the best. MarydaleEd (talk) 04:50, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

You said: We do not report information that is changing by the hour. But we do, quite regularly. See 2023 Lewiston shootings, Hurricane Otis or 2023 Israel–Hamas war for recent examples. While I appreciate what WP:RSBREAKING is trying to address, it doesn't really reflect reality, and some research shows that the guideline was added in 2014 with only a handful of voices involved with the feedback and addition.

Short of challenging that guideline and the questionable expansion of the "Wikipedia is not a newspaper" trope, in its current state it still leaves room for immediate updating of information that doesn't "spread potentially false rumors." As long as WP:V content is cited from WP:RS it is legitimate to add to Wikipedia. But what @Cullen328 notes here shows that we have a potentially conflicting set of statements. I'd point out that WP:NOTNEWS is a policy while WP:RSBREAKING is a guideline, but I'm not sure that distinction is that important. - Fuzheado | Talk 05:21, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

MarydaleEd, I disagree with you completely, on both the general point and the specific point. It is not up to individial Wikipedia editors to chastise other editors for updating articles by summarizing reliable sources as a story develops, or to unilaterally impose a restriction on how much detail is appropriate. Content referenced to unreliable sources should be excluded. Unreferenced content based on rumors or speculation should be removed immediately. But content that accurately summarizes what reliable sources say should be kept, unless their is clear consensus that it is undue, off topic, or trivial. People are curious about celebrity deaths. They do not come to Wikipedia for sparse, minimalist coverage. They want to see a summary of what a wide range of reliable sources say, and we will give that to them. Cullen328 (talk) 05:38, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

Matt Perry death article

There should be an article about Matt Perry's passing. Generally, if the traffic on that page is just about his death, there should be a whole article. Any thoughts? SussyBakaSussyImposter (talk) 03:46, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

That article would be pretty short. TheLoyalOrder (talk) 03:48, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

Yeah, because his death was about 5-6 hours ago and we dont have that much detail. SussyBakaSussyImposter (talk) 03:51, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

I made a draft for it so when news continues, we can add it there. Draft:Death of Matthew Perry SussyBakaSussyImposter (talk) 04:23, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

I don't think his death is that notable beyond inclusion on his personal wiki page. TheLoyalOrder (talk) 04:28, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

+1 NotAGenious (talk) 09:42, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

I don't think his death warrants a separate article as there isn't anything inherently notable about it. His article isn't large enough that it needs to be split and if it did then filmography is usually the sections which are made into separate articles. There's probably going to be more coverage over the next few days but info on reactions or similar information could fit into the article easily. Suonii180 (talk) 09:50, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

Ok, but now I redirected: Death of Matthew Perry to Matthew Perry#Death SussyBakaSussyImposter (talk) 13:03, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

That sounds reasonable. Thanks. - Fuzheado | Talk 15:33, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia does not have that many "Death of <individual>" articles, and when it does, it's about either very high profile people and/or the extensive circumstances around their passing. So far, the death of Matthew Perry is not likely to match that level of notability. (eg. Death of Michael Jackson or Death of Princess Diana). - Fuzheado | Talk 05:01, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

"Every day" vs. "everyday"

The one-word form is an adjective that modifies a noun. The two-word form must be used in every other case. Please replace "everyday" with "every day" in the last sentence of the lead. 71.255.77.207 (talk) 16:38, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

The End of Longing

The article now says that in 2016 he performed the lead in a play that he wrote, but his authorship is only noted en passant. It deserves at least a sentence, ie, he wrote a play (when) and it was (I have read) his only solo writing effort. Then we can say he starred in it in London and NYC. I've struggled with sourcing. Rutsq (talk) 22:16, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

Matt perry in Williamstown

It’s been reported that Mr. Perry did not return to his birth home of Williamstown Ma, he did in fact return many times to visit his grandfather before he passed. My good friend Mr.Stanley Sweet was his driver when he flew in to Albany N.Y. His grandfather was a very prominent and influential person in town who was very proud of his grandson.

Karl Reinke 2601:192:4C7F:4C90:88DD:B6C2:2A26:E96B (talk) 22:40, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

"It's been reported" without a citation of a reliable source is not useful here. Information that Mr. Sweet or you personally provide cannot be recorded here as it lacks a published, reliable source. General Ization ^Talk 22:43, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

Drowning != cause of death unknown

Either remove the category, or confirm the source that states he drowned. Can't have it both ways. 2A02:8071:184:4E80:0:0:0:27C2 (talk) 23:31, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

Personal life - properties

There is a paragraph in the personal life with seven near-consecutive sentences about Perry buying and selling houses, all of which resembling "In [month] Perry bought a house for [lots of money] in [California location]. He sold it in [month] for [lots of money]".

I err on the inclusive side that there probably is a notability for things that he paid so much money for, but the presentation is turgid and repetitive.

The article Christian Bale, a featured article about an actor, simply says "Bale has lived in Los Angeles since the 1990s." I think this perhaps goes too far the other way, but the question whether the reader is actually looking for such specific information about Perry's residences. Unknown Temptation (talk) 19:06, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

@Unknown Temptation I agree with this - listing his real estate history is probably irrelevant, especially since they're all in the same city (unless I missed a bit). Couruu (talk) 21:27, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

I won't jump to deleting everything just yet, but I'll try and clean it up a little. It probably would be best to remove most of the real estate information though, it doesn't seem like the most encyclopedic thing. TwinTails (talk) 00:17, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 29 October 2023 (2)

Hello, I think Matthew Perry looks out of place in the photo in the infobox - he has a weird expression. Wouldn't it be better to upload this photo there?

A photo with a better facial expression.

Matysek2000 (talk) 17:38, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

PS: I also uploaded a photo of his signature (no background) to Wikimedia.

Original file: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Matthew_Perry_signature.png

Background free: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Matthew_Perry_signature_(background_free).png

The most appropriate lead image now would be a photo of Perry from the time Friends originally aired. That is his most recognizable look. Surtsicna (talk) 18:56, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

That's fair, but the current photograph (at https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Matthew_Perry_and_Valerie_Jarrett_in_support_of_Awareness_on_Drug_Courts_and_Reduce_Substance_Abuse_(cropped)_(2).jpg) is recognisable and generally positive in expression. TwinTails (talk) 00:06, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

Abysmal quality though TheLoyalOrder (talk) 01:00, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

Perry's finger

An editor added a piece of "trivia" about Perry missing part of a finger on his right hand. The editor initially added it citing to IMDb. I reverted because IMDb is not a reliable source for such things. The editor reinserted it with a "citation needed" template.

My view is that even if we could find a reliable source in support of the assertion, it's not sufficiently notable for inclusion. More simply put, who cares, and more important, why should Wikipedia report such things?

Comments?--Bbb23 (talk) 00:49, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

I think it could be mentioned, maybe in a private life section. Here's a better source: Mirror.co.uk

Mateussf (talk) 01:01, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

no neeed to write this 😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡

no more 92.12.53.143 (talk) 21:03, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

@Mateussf I don't think the Mirror is much better; it's a tabloid after all. Couruu (talk) 21:29, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

@Couruu:.

Oh you're correct. Thanks. I checked WP:DAILYMIRROR and I'm sure there are better sources for this Do you have any opinion if it's relevant, and if it should go on the Personal Information section? Thanks Mateussf (talk) 21:37, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

I'm not convinced by its relevance, unless it had some kind of significant impact on his life - if other editors disagree, though, it should go in Personal life (possibly under the Health subsection). Either way needs a better source :) Couruu (talk) 12:02, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 30 October 2023

Matthew Perry's mother is called Suzanne Perry. The parents split when Matthew was a child. Sourced from the BBC: www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-67257151.amp 80.4.16.236 (talk) 05:45, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

 Already done Already reported accurately in the section Early life and education. General Ization ^Talk 05:48, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

But it just shows father and stepfather in the parents section 80.4.16.236 (talk) 05:49, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

That section lists parents who are notable and thus have Wikipedia articles. His mother does not. General Ization ^Talk 05:51, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

So you decide that his mother isn't "important" enough to have her name written because she hasn't got her own Wikipedia-page? 188.113.95.213 (talk) 06:36, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

Per Template:Infobox person, the parameter says the following: Names of parents; include only if they are independently notable' [...] (Emphasis mine) In this case, his father has his own article due to being notable enough as an actor. His stepfather is notable enough as a news anchor. It might be possible that his mother is notable enough for an article, but it hasn't been written yet. --Super Goku V (talk) 09:41, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

But you could show more respect and add the name of his mother bolow his father's name, despite his mother not having her own wikipedia-page. Lots of other wikipedia-pages does that. 188.113.95.213 (talk) 12:24, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

"Foul play?"

"Death On October 28, 2023, Perry was found unresponsive in his hot tub by his assistant at his home in Pacific Palisades, Los Angeles, and later pronounced dead by officers from the Los Angeles Police Department. According to police, the cause of death is unknown and there were no signs of foul play."

Foul play? It's better to use the adult word "Crime" is it not? 188.113.95.213 (talk) 21:02, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

@188.113.95.213 Source says foul play, and it's a known way of saying "he wasn't murdered". Couruu (talk) 21:26, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

So the source is taken from junior baseball? The correct english, adult word is crime. 188.113.95.213 (talk) 21:45, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

@188.113.95.213 Foul play isn't a euphemism; it's more specific than "crime" because crimes can be committed without any foul play occurring. Besides, and more importantly, foul play is what the source said, so we go off the source. Couruu (talk) 21:59, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

So why does all media all over the world say "Crime"? And all other wikipedia-pages in every languages says "Crime"? 188.113.95.213 (talk) 06:42, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

It isn't at all referring to baseball. Per Dictionary.com, the first definition of foul play is any treacherous or unfair dealing, especially involving murder: We feared that he had met with foul play. Per the Cambridge Dictionary, the first definition is a criminal act that results in serious damage or injury, especially murder: suspect foul play It is not clear what caused the explosion, but the police do not suspect foul play. (Formatting copied from Cambridge, no emphasis added.)

Oxford has the first as:
criminal or violent activity that causes somebody’s death
Police immediately began an investigation, but did not suspect foul play (= did not suspect that the person had been murdered).
The police found no evidence of foul play.
The police have ruled out foul play in the case of his death.

To conclude with an example used in an article, see the article Mary Celeste which not only uses foul play in the lede, but also as the name of a sub-section. Hopefully this resolves the issue. --Super Goku V (talk) 07:27, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

Yes it was a respectful word for grow-ups until the americans chose to use it in their junior league sport. So today we have to use the word "Crime". 188.113.95.213 (talk) 12:29, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 30 October 2023 (2)

Under his health issues when discussing his treatment it says ECMO "breathed for him". ECMO does not breathe, it oxygenates blood. While on ECMO you are still on a ventilator which is what is breathing for you. I would suggest the edit to change "which breathed for him." to "which oxygenated his blood for his lungs.". There are different kinds of ECMO, some also provide circulatory support, but the main function is the oxygenation of blood. 2603:9009:BF0:7E10:B9E9:FB6E:83A:E40E (talk) 14:05, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

 Done Removed the oversimplified explanation of what an ECMO machine does. Since there is a link to ECMO, anyone wanting more detail can click on it. General Ization ^Talk 14:55, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

His death

He was found in his hot tub on Saturday October 28th 2023 he had drowned. This was just 8 days after he had posted a picture on social media in the same hot tub. 24.228.89.162 (talk) 00:30, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

Are there better quality sources besides TMZ to confirm this? --NoonIcarus (talk) 00:33, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

The LA Times has reported on it since they also received the news from law enforcement. I think the LA Times article is more respectful, but I don't think that's enough to justify changing the source. 134.199.119.57 (talk) 01:13, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

TMZ has always been an excellent source for celebrity deaths and is usually the very first organization to report them. 71.199.43.182 (talk) 02:10, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

It is often the first to report because it is less committed than other outlets to the verification of facts before reporting. This is one of the reasons it is considered a low-quality source. General Ization ^Talk 02:16, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

Amen, my friend. TMZ is an excellent source for gossip and rumors, only. MarydaleEd (talk) 03:13, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

no more 92.12.53.143 (talk) 21:03, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

I strongly disagree. TMZ has always been a reliable source for celebrity deaths. Unless you have any reason to believe the article on his death in particular contains false information, it seems a bit unfounded to dismiss them as an unreliable source simply because you believe it is 2601:447:CE00:8AB0:1936:A02E:F7A8:D8D0 (talk) 16:31, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

As an aside, would it be worth citing or including that post/picture? TwinTails (talk) 02:50, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

No. It would not. It adds nothing but sensationalism, which offends the five pillars of Wikipedia. However, I believe your suggestion came from a good place and I, for one, am grateful that you are thinking of how to improve articles. I encourage you to keep it up. MarydaleEd (talk) 03:15, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

I appreciate that, all the best. TwinTails (talk) 23:51, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 31 October 2023

Picture on the right, towards the bottom, shows Matt Leblanc Not Matthew Perry 82.102.46.43 (talk) 19:21, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: If it ever did, it does not now. General Ization ^Talk 00:15, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

Protected Page Edit Request

“When I die, I know people will talk about Friends, Friends, Friends. And I’m glad of that, happy I’ve done some solid work as an actor, as well as given people multiple chances to make fun of my struggles on the World Wide Web…

“But when I die,” he went on. “As far as my so-called accomplishments go, it would be nice if Friends were listed far behind the things I did to try and help other people. I know it won’t happen, but it would be nice.”

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/stephaniesoteriou/matthew-perry-legacy-hopes-after-death

• What I think should be changed (format using {{textdiff}}):
• Why it should be changed:
• References supporting the possible change (format using the "cite" button):

TrudySprinkle (talk) 17:34, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

References

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. PianoDan (talk) 16:40, 2 November 2023 (UTC)

Do we really need to name every single celebrity that has paid tribute to Perry?

The list is getting ridiculously long. 178.232.173.10 (talk) 05:01, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

I was wondering the same thing. Similarly, “All of his ‘Friends’ co-stars” attended the funeral - a bit redundant to then name the main cast, no? 86.20.163.242 (talk) 08:42, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

Agree that only his Friends co-stars should be mentioned in the tributes section. --209.93.85.21 (talk) 19:57, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

Why? All the other celebreties are more celebreties than these so-called Friends-"stars" who only act like they paid tribute because they were forced to, as they hate each other and starred together just to get paid. 188.113.95.213 (talk) 08:57, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

That doesn't change the fact the list can be trimmed down. It doesn't need to be this long. --209.93.85.21 (talk) 13:45, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

It doesn't have to be any list at all, as everyone who gives their tributes are just doing it beacause their agents are forcing them to, for PR. 188.113.95.213 (talk) 15:58, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

Posterior Circulation Stroke

Posterior Circulation Stroke is the most probable reason for fainting and drowning in bath of Mathew Perry due to hypertension from Nicorette and Antidepressants interaction. 77.85.35.64 (talk) 10:17, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

According to whom? We cannot quote your opinion, or include unsourced speculation, in the article. General Ization ^Talk 03:06, 10 November 2023 (UTC)