Talk:Mashing/Archive 1

Archive 1

Source for claim about 200 Lintner wheat malt?

This claim about wheat malt reaching 200 Lintner has been on the internet for quite some time, but it appears that this may be a misunderstanding. Viking Malt inadvertantly listed its wheat malt as 200 Lintner, but if you go to their website now, they've updated the product description to say 200 Windisch-Kolbach units which converts to a more reasonable 61 degrees Lintner. Is there any good source for the 200 Lintner wheat malt claim? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.4.122.77 (talk) 00:14, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

Encyclopedic confusion

I was reading the encyclopedic entries on beer from Encarta and the Britannica online. I found some discrepencies between wikipedia and the two encyclopedias. In particular, Encarta and Britannica stated that during the malting process, enzymes convert the starch into sugar, maltose. However, wikipedia stated that the conversion starts in the mashing process. Which one is correct?--Janarius 21:42, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

I think that this is partially correct. It is my understanding that the malting process is effectively to begin the process of converting starches to sugars so that the mashing process will be a little more straight-forward. You 'could' mash with unmodified grains, but this would require an additional step in the mashing process in order to hydrate the grains in order to allow all of the soluble starches to be released. In other words, in a stepped mashing schedule, you are adding an extra rest at a lower temperature (35-45 Deg. C if memory serves). This means that malting makes this additional step less necessary, as once the temperature of the mash reaches about 65 Deg. C the starches get converted into maltose, while going above that temperature allows other fermentables (primarily glucose) to be formed. So basically what I am saying is that it does't seem to be a discrepancy per se, as both process allow starches to be converted to maltose, in Malting the process is halted mid-way leaving lots of remaining starches to be released with less effort (saving time and therefore saving the breweries a lot of money!), while Mashing simply completes a process begun during the malting, and allows other products to be extracted from the grains, such as proteins. John Palmer's How To Brew book has a bit about this at the start of chapter 14. Perhaps an interested food chemist might be able to shed some further light on this.--Slrobins 13:49, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

A lot of grains are fully converted now, which means you don't have to do a multi-step mash, that's true. And yes, malted grain will have some sugar in it. The bulk of the conversion, though, is done in the mash tun. --Stlemur 20:55, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

This article contains a great deal of information and has obviously been carefully composed. Mash article writers, I salute you. However, my feeling is that it moves to quickly into technical detail of interest only to brewers. A longer and better introduction for the general public would be helpful, perhaps also some history (as an encyclopdia article would have) and some cutting back on the level of overall detail (enumeration of the types of roller mills, etc.) --Shorn again 22:43, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

My understanding is as follows. During the Malting process, the grain creates enzymes that break starches into sugars. Some sugars are created, as they are necessary for the plant to begin sprouting. Most of the grain is left as a starch at that point, and when the malting stops, the enzymes remain but are inactive. Free sugars are negligible, as most have been used by the sprout. During the Mash, the enzymes again become active, and because the plant is dead, the sugars are free to enter the liquid of the Mash. It is not the case, as Slrobins indicated, that the malting process is performed to save effor, time, and money for breweries. Rather, the malting process is necessary to create the enzymes that later convert the starches into sugars. If a grain is not malted, adding water to it will not convert it to a sugary wort. The enzymes must be present. Cliff (talk) 19:19, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

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Change article title to "Mash"?

I propose changing the title to "Mash". The use of the gerund "Mashing" seems very odd in this context. If the title were "Mash," it would be analogous to the article Must about winemaking. Another possible title would be "Mash (beer)". Wahrmund (talk) 21:39, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

I support the change to Mash (beer). If no objections within a month, I will perform the move. Cliff (talk) 19:12, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

Not to object per se, but it seems to me like the bulk of the article focuses on the process rather than the end product, of which it seems there is comparatively little to say. I think this merits at least a bit of discussion before it gets moved. Oreo Priest ^talk 22:38, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

that's why the month, to allow for discussion. Personally, I think of mashing as something I do to potatoes, not to my malt. I add water to the malt to begin the mash, not to begin mashing. I suppose I simply like that verb tense better. Any ideas about how we can determine the "correct" tense? Cliff (talk) 03:37, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

I suppose what I'm saying is that one does things to the mash, one does not simply do the mash. Cliff (talk) 18:50, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

Mash is a noun, but it is the label for the process not the physical materials used in the process, each of the materials have their own labels such as grist and wort or wash none of them are labeled mash.

From Homebrewing beer

Mashing

Main article: Mashing

Homebrewing malt extracts: liquid in a can and spray dried

Homebrewers may purchase liquid or dried malt extracts that are quite simply the condensed or dried wort that is sold in concentrated form. Whether the homebrewer chooses to mash their own grains or chooses to purchase malt extracts, the homebrewer will then need to add hops and boil the liquid, typically for an hour to an hour and a half.

Boiling malt and hops in a stainless steel kitchen pan

At present, brewing systems as HERMS are available to produce better results for the homebrewer with mashing. HERMS is such a system and is an acronym for 'Heat Exchange Recirculating Mash System. The basic premise is that liquid wort is drawn off from the mash and passed through a heat exchanger before returning to the mash. It is widely (although not universally) accepted that this process speeds starch conversion, clarifies runoff and greatly reduces temperature stratification within the mash.

Partial mash

A partial mash differs from an extract brew in that the extract remains enzymatically active. Unlike dead malts where some of the starch has been converted to sugar via the action of heat and the natural enzymes have been destroyed, wheats and unmalted extracts need the help of enzymes to convert their starches into sugars.

The next step up from extract brewing is to use a diastatically active malt extract to convert starches from other beer adjuncts such as flaked and torrified barleys, flaked wheat, and wheat flour into fermentable sugars. These extracts are currently only available in the canned form. Unmalted barleys and wheats can add extra "body" to a finished beer.

Full mash

Advanced homebrewers make their own extract from crushed malted barley (or alternative grain adjuncts such as unmalted barley, wheat, oats, corn or rye) by mashing the grain in hot water. This requires an insulated vessel known as a mash tun.

When mashing beer there are two competing enzymatic reactions at work. α-amylase is working to convert malt starches into dextrins adding body and residual sweetness to the beer, while β-amylase is working to convert malt starches and some dextrins into sugars for making alcohol. Both reactions work their best at differing temperatures and mash pHs (acidities or alkalinities). Mashing is a trade off between these reactions. α-amylase prefers a temperature of 70°C and a ph of 5.6. β-amylase prefers a more acidic pH of 5.0 and a temperature of 60°C. Hence the compromise choice of 66°C, although professional and homebrewer alike may vary mash temperature and pH to obtain differing results. Broadly, the hotter and more alkaline the mash, the sweeter and thicker the final beer; the cooler and more acidic the mash, the drier and more alcoholic the final beer.

In one procedure popular with homebrewers called the Infusion Mash, all grains are combined in the tun and added to brewing liquor. Before being combined with the grains, the brewing liquor is heated to a "strike temperature" that is hotter than the desired temperature for enzymatic activity. The reason the liquor is heated is to compensate for the fact that the grains are cooler than the desired temperature.

The mash is then removed to a lauter-tun and the grains washed with hotter water to obtain all the sugars from the tun in a process known as sparging. The sparging process will also stop any further enzymatic activity if much hotter water is used; conversely the mash may be heated to around 80°C to end such activity prior to placing it in the lauter-tun, and to prevent cooler grain from lowering the sparge water temperature to a lower than desirable figure.

The resulting wort is then boiled for around 90 minutes. Copper hops are added at the beginning of the boil and flavouring hops after 75 minutes. Irish Moss, a form of seaweed, is typically added at the end of the boil to help prevent any hazes in the final brew. Haze-preventing additives to the boil are known as copper finings.

References

Nitrogen Content

"In most beermaking, an average nitrogen content in the grains of at most 10% is sought;" is wrong.

See Malts and malting By Dennis Edward Briggs, Table 2.2 p68 1.46% to 2.25%

Maybe 10% refers to protein content? --78.150.167.26 (talk) 12:41, 26 August 2011 (UTC)

Optimal temperatur: better Fahrenheit thermometers?

How can the optimal temperature be determined to four figures in Fahrenheit but only to a range in Celsius? I think the columns in the table in Mashing#Enzymatic rests should match, one way or the other. But I don't know whether the Celsius should be made more precise or the Fahrenheit less precise. -- JHunterJ (talk) 18:16, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Article Name Needs to be Changed to Accurately Reflect Beer Oriented Nature of Article

This article is written from a beer brewing point of view exclusively, even though the very first line purports it to be inclusive of distillation mashing as well. It needs to either be expanded greatly to include mashing for whiskey making, or the distillation references need to be stripped out and the title changed to reflect the beer only nature of the article, perhaps changing the name to "Beer Mashing" or similar. For example, few distillers lauter or use tuns, instead fermenting on the grain to extract more flavor and more spirits. -MB 170.141.177.87 (talk) 17:58, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

Diastatic power

A search for "diastatic power" redirects to this article, but it doesn't explain, or even mention diastatic power anywhere in the text. What gives? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:645:4100:77AA:62C5:47FF:FE97:7A72 (talk) 23:23, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

That information was deemed off-topic and moved to the Mash_ingredients article linked at the bottom as "Grain bill". Cygnosis (talk) 16:20, 12 September 2017 (UTC)

Article needs cleanup. Undefined terms of the art.

I have noticed several brew industry specific terms are used in the mash article which are not common parlance and left undefined. For example: the section "Mashing-in" Starts with "Mixing of the strike water", this use of "strike" is unique to this subject and the meaning is essential to understand the remainder of the article section, but it is used without definition or reference and so the whole section becomes without use or meaning for readers outside of the brewing industry. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.193.32.170 (talk) 23:13, 8 July 2020 (UTC)