Talk:Maria von Trapp

Music

What sort of music did they perform? There isn't a single word about it in the whole article. One only learns that they were singing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.80.32.72 (talk) 12:55, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

Untitled

Didn't Maria get accused of being abusive or something in recent TV interviews with her stepkids?

They said she had a fierce and sudden temper, though it would blow over quickly.  Sean Lotz  talk  00:14, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

In her last book, "Maria," published in 1972, she mentioned her fierce and sudden temper, saying the storm would blow over quickly. For her, anyway. Her husband and the rest of family had to walk around on eggshells, wondering when the storm would start again.Alexander Springstea (talk) 00:11, 20 February 2023 (UTC)

Article Violates One of the Pillars of Wikipedia

Supposedly, one of the requirements of Wikipedia is that all articles must strive for verifiable accuracy. In its present form, this article fails that test miserably. The article states that Maria's daughter, Rosmarie, was born in 1929, but cites a source (i.e. Maria's sworn declaration of intention) which states that Rosmarie was born in 1928. I add a tag pointing out the inconsistency and suggest that the article needs cite-checking. Within a few minutes, the "smack bot" comes along and reverts my edit. No attempt is made, however, to explain why the article should continue making statements that are not supported by cited sources.

The problem, of course, is that if Rosmarie was born in 1928, Maria was seven months pregnant at the time of her marriage. That may be unpleasant, disconcerting, or even disillusioning to some, but facts are facts, and there is no reason to ignore Maria's sworn statements on the subject. In both the Declaration of Intention and the Petition for Naturalization, Maria states that she was married on November 26, 1927, and that Rosmarie was born in February, 1928.

174.22.236.38 (talk) 05:05, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

In addition, the family left Austria BEFORE Hitler invaded Austria. See "Music: Family Life in Vermont," TIME magazine (July 18, 1949). Thus, there was no "escaping from Austria," "fleeing the Nazis," or anything like that. The "Sound of Music" is a wonderful motion picture, but the underyling storyline is as phony as a three-dollar bill, and attempts to point that out should not be removed in this article. The effort to portray "Saint Maria von Trapp" is "original research" at best, or at worst, intellectually dishonest. It is clear that Maria, a woman of dubious morals (at least by the standards of her time), in an effort to make money, attempted to capitalize on the misery that was the Second World War by having people believe that the family was affected by it when it was not. By permitting her to do so, we dishonor the millions who suffered and died in that catastrophe.John Paul Parks (talk) 14:41, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

Missionary work

From reading Maria von Trapp's autobiographies, I know that missionary work was an extremely important part of her life. It's curious that no mention of her missionary work appears in this article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.5.140.109 (talk) 00:46, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Maria's books are internally inconsistent and contradict each other. 174.22.236.38 (talk) 05:06, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

Mother

The first wife of Georg von Trapp was Frances Whitehead, granddaughter of Robert Whitehead. She met him when launching a submarine for the Austrian navy, he was the captain. Her grandfather was an engineer from Bolton in Lancashire and worked on various naval projects inclduing developing the self-powered torpedo. --jmb 22:28, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Agathe was the name of the first wife. She was born in 1890 and died 1922. Her eldest daugther was named after her.

Do you know the exactly dates, when the Trapp "children" were born and had died ?

Andrea (known as Andrea1984 from the German Version of Wikipedia) - 20:31, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

The article said Georg's first wife died of rheumatic fever. But The Story Of the Trapp Family Singers p. 26: "Then an epidemic of scarlet fever took his young wife." I've changed the article. Cphoenix (talk) 00:20, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

As of November 1, 2010 : I have Maria Von Trapp's autobiographical book, "Maria", in which she tells of their life (her life previous to marrying the Captain, and of course, continuing through all their lives as a family) .......Agathe DID die of scarlet fever, per Maria. Also, I just now updated the birthdate of Rosemarie. Wikipedia's "Article" section, and the statistics box in it had Maria's first child being born only 2 months, a few days after their marriage. IMbd lists Rosemarie's birdate as 1929, instead - I'm more in agreement with that date because (per her book) Maria wasn't at all that intimately close to the Captain until AFTER they married. (Per her own words, she was marrying the children, then later learned to love the Captain [as the novice nun/children's teacher in the abbey, had considered herself married to God....and actually felt that God had betrayed her in His bringing about her marriage to the Captain. She talks about having to learn to understand God's will in her life regarding His bringing about her marriage to the Captain, instead of her supposing herself to be married only to God, and "married" to the Von Trapp children. Only after accepting God's "change of her plans" was she able to learn to love the Captain and start feeling like, and being, a wife to him.])

Take a look at the immigration documents that are referenced in the footnotes. They clearly indicate that Rosmarie was born on February 8, 1928, or only 2 months and 13 days after Maria and the Captain were married to each other. In other words, Maria was seven months pregnant when she got married. The entire story is a fraud. As the 1938 and 1949 articles in TIME magazine indicate, the family came to this country before Hitler annexed Austria. In the 1938 article, it is claimed that she is the mother of all of the captain's children. Her books are riddled with inconsistencies (e.g. in the 1949 book, she tells how the captain introduced her to the children, blowing his whistle, and in her 1972 book, says that the captain was not at home, and that she was introduced to the children by the housekeeper). She was a school teacher at Nonnberg, but never more than a postulant, if that, which is one step below novice. She was never a nun. When I wrote to a tourist organization in Vienna, no one ever heard of the State Teachers College for Progressive Education. When you Google the name of that institution, the only hits that come up are those mentioning Maria. Was she she only student? Consistent with the fabricated nature of the story, they are going to try to "clean up" Rosmarie's birthdate, but the sworn statements under oath are hard to get around.John Paul Parks (talk) 06:05, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Rosmarie von Trapp is born 1929. Source: Electronic mail from Carla Hunter Campbell von Trapp from August 2010. --62.47.188.69 (talk) 12:03, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

Carla Hunter Campbell von Trapp was born years after the event. Her statement is not evidence of Rosmarie's birth. Her statement is further subject to impeachment on the ground of pecuniary interest, since the ability to maintain the aura of Trapp family depends on its validity. Let's see a birth certificate or a baptismal certificate for Rosmarie. We already have her mother's sworn statements (one in 1944 and another in 1948), stating that Rosmarie was born in 1928.John Paul Parks (talk) 14:25, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

Rosmarie was 10 in 1939, so she was/is born in 1929. --AndreaMimi (talk) 22:25, 1. August 2012 (UTC).

Agree. Quis separabit? 20:14, 25 February 2014 (UTC)

"Baronet"

The word "baronet" is almost certainly used incorrectly on the page; it's more likely to be a case of so-called "untitled nobility". AnonMoos 00:32, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Bear in mind that Austrians speak German, not English, so English words are not likely to convey the exact meaning of what they may be talking about.John Paul Parks (talk) 14:27, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

Also, "Edelweiss" was a song written by the movie's producers. It is unknown in Austria. Hopefully, in keeping with Wikipedia standards, we can keep fact and fantasy (and wishful thinking about Maria's virginity at the time she married the captain) separate in this article.John Paul Parks (talk) 14:27, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

This article is awful

Sorry to be so blunt and detail-free, but it is. Several silly sections lurk in it, a few are badly named, the tone is not that of an encyclopedia, it has no references, just a "note", it has few details... Nousernamesleft 23:37, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

I think this eval stands.

My main grievance is this vague paragraph: Life became increasingly difficult as they witnessed hostility toward Jewish children by their classmates, the use of children against their parents, the advocacy of abortion both by Maria's doctor and by her son's school and finally by the induction of Georg into the German Navy 2603:7000:D83E:6D27:4589:4494:5DE1:4FA8 (talk) 05:12, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

Please, someone, take pity on this poor article, and edit it into something readable? Pgranzeau (talk) 04:20, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

I put some informations from the children in a table. Now it looks better. I hope so. --AndreaMimi (talk) 09:53, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

I just updated information up above, and on the main article page (along with the statistics box), per Maria Von Trapp's own autobiographical book, "Maria", which I have had for decades. Seeing Oprah's 45 Year Anniversary show of "The Sound of Music" made me want to check out what Wikipedia has. As soon as I saw some mistakes, I got the book out, reread some pages, and as clear as I can make out from what she wrote, corrected the errors. She doesn't mention Rosemarie or Lorli's births in the book, but knowing of her intimacy distance in relation to the Captain at the time of their marriage - in the book - went with IMbd's birthdate for Rosemarie as the closest thing to being correct for her oldest child. (talk) 21:46, 1 November 2010 (UTC)gailmaria/talk)

Himmler Headquarters? Ridiculous!

—72.81.84.211 (talk) 12:02, 16 May 2008 (UTC)What might be the source that Himmler used the von Trapp former home near Salzburg, Austria as his 'headquarters'? Or (per Google, his home, retreat, with slave labor, etc.). Himmler's headquarters were always on the Prinz Albrechtstr. in Berlin, where he also had living quarters for official use when he wasn't at the family home. He moved his family for their safety after the Allied bombings began to a modest property in south Germany, where he stayed when taking a break (along with a residence rented for his mistress and their children). Himmler is said to have been a stickler for avoiding even the appearance of financial improprieties or profiteering and punished those who did, made only modest purchases himself, which he paid for with receipts, and lived strictly within his income. Captain von Trapp was said to have mourned the defeat of the Austro-Hungarian Empire in World War I and his Navy position, and didn't care for the emergence of the strong Austrian Nazi party. He sold or turned over the house to a Catholic order when the family left for America in 1938. It may be that Austrian Nazis had something to do with the property during the World War II period, but no German SS and/or Himmler 'headquarters' according to extensive Himmler biographies. Is this a tale for tourists?

As far as I know, the story about Himmler using the property for his headquarters is contained solely in Maria's 1949 book. I have been unable to find any independent corroboration either. Maria's books contradict each other, and, at various times, conflicting information has been given out to the public about family activities and matters. John Paul Parks (talk) 03:37, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

See the "History" section of http://www.villa-trapp.com "In 1938, the Trapps left forever. One year later, the 'Missionaries of the Precious Blood' rented the villa." How many "refugees" do you know who collect rent on the property they leave behind? Also, according to an article published in TIME magazine in July 1949, they left before the Anschluss.98.191.220.101 (talk) 19:46, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

Himmler HQ not so ridiculous?

There is a reference to the fate of the von Trapp's former home in "The Trapp Family Singers" by Maria Augusta Trapp, published by Geoffrey Bles, 1953. On p. 284 she writes:

"After Armistice day when the boys [Maria's sons] were still in Europe, they had gone for a short visit to Salzburg and found that our old home there had been confiscated by Heinrich Himmler; that it had been made his headquarters for the last period of that cruel war; that the chapel had been turned into a beer parlour; and what had been Father Wasner's room had become Hitler's quarters when he came there."

This is either true, or someone is lying - the boys, those who gave them this information, or Maria herself. On the same page, she goes on to write:

"When it [the house] was given back to us after the war, we prayed that we might be able to sell it. Our prayer was answered. the house was sold to a religious order in America which wanted to establish a seminary in Europe. The place is now called Saint Joseph's Seminary."

Whatever the truth of this, the article certainly needs more work. --Aspiro (talk) 07:22, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

All we have, though, is Maria's uncorroborated statement. On various points, the statements in Maria's books conflict with known records, and occasionally, her books contradict each other. If Himmler actually used the house as his headquarters, it should be easy enough to verify.

For example of how the books contradict each other: in her 1949 book, she tells of her first meeting with the children and relates the story about the captain and the whistle. In her 1972 book, "Maria," however, she states that the captain was not at home when she arrived, and that the housekeeper introduced her to the children. Both statements cannot be true. As you say, someone must be lying. Based on Maria's contradictory statements, my vote would be for Maria. John Paul Parks (talk) 03:41, 7 January 2009 (UTC) Updated John Paul Parks (talk) 05:19, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Per Maria's autobiographical book, "Maria" (published 1972), she includes talking about the Von Trapp estate all through the first part of the book up to their sudden decision to leave, but after that, she makes no more mention of their former home as she tells of their fleeing from Hitler's presence in Austria, or even once they established their new home in Vermont. (November 1, 2010; 69.224.47.134 (talk) 22:11, 1 November 2010 (UTC)gailmaria/talk)

State Teachers College for Progressive Education

In December, 2007, I wrote to a Vienna tourist information organization, asking for information about the "State Teachers College for Progressive Education." I received the following answer:

"we thank you for your email and your interest in Vienna.We asked at several institutions like the "Wiener Stadtschulrat" and the "Dachverband für Selbstbestimmtes Lernen" but none could tell us anything about such a school. Probably this college has or had a german name. But a 'State Teachers College for Progressive Education' is not known in Vienna.We are sorry not beeing of assistance to you in that case.With best regards,

So it looks like no one in Vienna has heard of the institution. Also, when I run a search for "State Teachers College for Progressive Education" on Yahoo!, I receive only 46 hits, and ALL of them mention Maria von Trapp. Was Maria the only person who ever attended it?

Maria, in her 1972 book, "Maria," claims that the State Teachers College for Progressive Education was internationally known, and that students from Columbia University would come to observe its methods. Did it just disappear? Or is it a figment of Maria's imagination? Her books are riddled with contradictions, and her statements contradict historical documents. Perhaps this is just another part of it.

John Paul Parks (talk) 01:19, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Cleanup

The article needs to be put in chronological order. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 10:39, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Maria's title

The article for her husband states that his title was Ritter. If correct, this does NOT make her a baroness. http://www.wiki-en.genealogy.net/German_Nobility states: "In Bavaria and especially Austria, the hereditary title of Ritter (Knight) was given to families, but they were still considered part of the untitled nobility. Much the same applies to the title of Edler, which is mainly northern and central German. While the wife and daughters of an Edler were titled Edle, the wife of a Ritter was called a Frau (in this sense Lady) and not Ritterin." So I've removed the baroness from her name, even though she was often called that in the English language press. However, it would seem to be a typical bit of German titles creep. Engleham (talk) 17:06, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Per Maria's book, "Maria" (published 1972) - included in the book's photos is a black & white picture of her in her bridal dress and veil, titled "Maria as the new baroness", so it's possible she WAS considered a baroness. (November 1, 2010; 69.224.47.134 (talk) 22:17, 1 November 2010 (UTC)gailmaria/talk)

It is also possible that Maria is prevaricating. Her books are riddled with internal inconsistences, and they contradict each other. In December, 1938, there was an article in TIME magazine claiming that she was the mother of all of the von Trapp children. In July, 1949, TIME ran an article declaring that the family came to this country before Hitler annexed Austria. So much for the daring escape. And as the immigration documents show, her first child was born two months and 13 days after her marriage. She was seven months pregnant at the time of her marriage. Right around the time she signed the first immigration document (1944), she was in trouble with the War Production Board for violating lumber regulations at her music camp, so they WPB probably put the fear of God in her, and got her to be truthful when filling out the immigration documents, which is why we know about Rosmarie's "premature" birth.John Paul Parks (talk) 06:11, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Ritter is regularly mistranslated as baron, but it's not. It's the equivalent of an hereditary knight. Freiherr is the equivalent of a baron. But it appears Maria wasn't a freifrau or freiin (baroness). She may have nudged things for PR purposes or it was just the usual misunderstanding by her translators. Engleham (talk) 14:27, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

You are arguing truth vs verifiability. I haven't seen any sources beyond what I have added that use Baron and Baroness including Encyclopedia Britannica, the anti Baron crowd is using original research, and haven't provided any reliable sources. Even if the titles are incorrect by Austrian nobility standards, that is what there were known as. We have Colonel Sanders in the US, and honorific title. Was he a military Colonel, no ... was he entitled to be called Colonel Sanders, yes, by the media and by the governor who proclaimed him one. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 22:41, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

Maria's Title -- No Title at all

Maria was never entitled to call herself "von Trapp". Georg's title was abolished in 1919 (Austrian nobility), and his name became Georg Trapp. It was actually illegal for him to call himself "von Trapp". Hence, the name of the group "The Trapp Family Singers". So the question of what Maria's title should be is moot, because her husband had no title at all when she knew him. She was entitled to call herself "Frau Korvettenkapitän Maria Trapp", since one could use military ranks. (Aside: Google the Austrian obsession with titles: My wife would be "Frau Magister Doctor Major-Arzt".) On moving to the US, where "von", if present, is just a meaningless part of a last name and immigrants often change their names, the family awarded itself the "von" which Georg had possessed earlier. 184.155.4.146 (talk) 13:24, 14 June 2017 (UTC)

Merger proposal

I'm honestly confused as to why there are two articles for her, when only one is needed. Me-123567-Me (talk) 20:13, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

It's not hard for duplicate articles to get created. I created Maria von Trapp on 30 June 2004. Maria Franziska von Trapp was created only on 28 April 2007, obviously by someone who was unaware of the existence of the earlier article. Had I been aware of the later article, I would have merged it before now, but I wasn't aware. I see User: Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) was editing both articles in January

Anyway, "Maria von Trapp" is the name by which she's known in English-speaking countries, and that article has priority in any event, so "Maria Franziska von Trapp" should be merged into "Maria von Trapp". -- Jack of Oz [your turn] 20:51, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

I believe that was my merger suggestion. I wonder if her husband has two articles as well? Me-123567-Me (talk) 20:56, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Upon re-reading them again, I think they are two different people. One is Georg's daughter who was portrayed as Liesel. Me-123567-Me (talk) 20:59, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Quite right. Scrub most of what I said, except that it's still quite easy for duplicate articles to get unwittingly created. Will youu remove the merge tags? -- Jack of Oz [your turn] 21:06, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

I already did after posting here. But you're right, it is easy. Me-123567-Me (talk) 21:19, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

I wrote the article Maria Franziska von Trapp in April 2007 to different her from her stepmother Maria Augusta von Trapp. Would you be so nice, to re-post the article about Maria Franziska von Trapp again --62.47.180.59 (talk) 20:19, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

Rosmarie's birth date

On the one hand, we've got an unofficial document and (apparently) the family website with a conflict of interest (preserving Maria's reputation). On the other hand, we've got the work of a scholar and an official government document. I'm calling shenanigans on this one. The reliable sources point to a 1928 birth, and that's what we should list. Rklawton (talk) 23:41, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

• 1928 [1][2]
• 1929 shows age 10 in 1939 [3]

___________________________________________________

The documents referenced above appears to read slightly different.

• 9/27/39 "List or Manifest of Alien"... 1929
• 10/7/39 "Records of Aliens Held for Special Inquiry" 1929
• 1/21/44 "United States Declaration of Intention"... 1928

That's one private document 1929, one official document 1929, one official document 1928. --CSvBibra (talk) 00:41, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

It's logical that the "Aliens held..." document takes its information from the ship's manifest as the two events were related and in sequence. The "Declaration" document was taken under oath and is more detailed. Specifically, the immigration documents don't actually list a birth date but rather only Rosemarie's age whereas the sworn document contains birth dates. Ideally we just find and use her original birth certificate. Rklawton (talk) 01:19, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

Hm. All things considered, I think it would be most reasonable to list this as disputed - until we see a birth certificate or passport. The reason being is that it is disputed by the subject of this article, and that's something readers should know. Rklawton (talk) 13:00, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

I agree that the best solution is to list as disputed.--CSvBibra (talk) 20:13, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

Maria, in her 1949 book, indicates that Rosmarie was born at home with the assistance of a midwife (Frau Vogel) and was baptized at home by a priest during a very severe winter. Thus, there may not be a birth certificate, as we think of it. Given the Catholic church's emphasis on recordkeeping, I am reasonably certain the priest made a record of the baptism for his parish register, but without knowing the name of his parish (not identified in the book), searching for the baptismal record might be like looking for a needle in a haystack. In my view, however, the burden is on the 1929 advocates to come forward with evidence, if any there be, in support of their position.John Paul Parks (talk) 18:15, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

The passenger manifest is a very weak source of evidence in the 1928-1929 controversy, assuming it can be relied on at all. It also raises suspicions on its own. As it indicates, Georg also used the name "Giorgio" and was listed as an Italian national, while Maria is listed as a German national (in 1939, Austria had been annexed into Germany). It is extremely odd (and perhaps not even legally possible at that time) for a married woman to have a domicile and nationality different from her husband). As the 1949 book indicates, they were detained at Ellis Island to sort out a confusion in their papers. The information for the manifest likely was compiled based on statements at the beginning of the journey, and thus should not be relied on. Further, the manifest is insufficient to overcome the more specific sworn statements contained in the immigration documents. All of this could be solved quite easily if the Trapp family were to produce an authentic copy of Rosmarie's birth certificate or baptismal certificate (executed at or near the time of birth). Until they do, I vote for 1928 as the year of birth, but do not object to it being shown as "disputed," as that acknowledges the family's position and alerts readers to the matter.John Paul Parks (talk) 18:30, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

We should also keep in mind that when we're viewing these documents, we're looking at and evaluating for ourselves primary sources, something we generally don't do. On the other hand, web page linking to these documents is in the form of an article prepared by an academic research - a researcher who uses the 1928 date. It is this and only this that we should point to when justifying that year. However, I do support the "disputed" tag since the biographical subject appears to endorse only the 1929 date. Rklawton (talk) 19:19, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

The copy of the birth certificate in the Salzburger Landesarchiv says 1929. --AndreaMimi (talk) 22:25, 1. August 2012 (UTC)

Can you post/link a copy? Rklawton (talk) 21:13, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

Well, she could, if she hadn't been blocked indef for block evasion 3 years ago... --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 21:53, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

It's a shame because looking at their user contributions it seems like AndreaMimi is a history student/graduate that lives in Salzburger and likely has actually seen the birth certificate and could provide a copy. I left a message on their talk page in case they're interested in getting unblocked. Year Zero is a concept (talk) 02:29, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

Why does it say that Rosmarie died, when elsewhere it indicates that she's still alive? And the dates don't match up...how could she be born in 1929 and die of cancer at age 55 in 1967? http://www.nj.com/cumberland/index.ssf/2011/04/rosmarie_trapp_brings_sound_of.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fieldspring (talk • contribs) 15:44, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

AndreaMimi, who was previously blocked, provides no link or copy of her alleged birth certificate. In talk pages on related articles, she suggests calling Rosemarie and asking her for the date of her birth. No one can testify as to the date of his or her own birth. The only evidence that we should accept is an authenticated copy of the birth certificate or baptismal certificate, executed at or near the time of actual birth.John Paul Parks (talk) 14:49, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

Civil Registry in Salzburg

I contacted the civil registry office in Salzburg:

Stadt: Salzburg Magistrat, Einwohner - und Standesamt Mirabellplatz 4 Postfach 83 5024 Salzburg

inquiring about the procedure for obtaining a birth record for a person born in or near Salzburg in 1928 or 1929.

I was advised that the registry office’s records only go back to 1939. For records prior to that time, they suggested that I contact the Archdiocese of Salzburg.

This is consistent with other information I know about Austria (e.g. prior to 1939, there was no civil marriage in the country, everything was handled by the church).

So, AndreaMimi, what sort of “birth certificate” did you see? If any contemporaneous record is available for Rosmarie, it would be a baptismal certificate. Show us what you saw.

John Paul Parks (talk) 14:11, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

You have never contacted any person in Salzburg. I don't belive you.

Look at the pictures, when Georg and Maria A. were married. You can never see, that Maria A. was pregnant at this time.

Look here: http://www.archives.gov/global-pages/larger-image.html?i=/publications/prologue/2005/winter/images/manifest-pg1-l.jpg&c=/publications/prologue/2005/winter/images/manifest-pg1.caption.html

Rosmarie was listed at the age of 10, not 11, in 1939, so she was born in 1929.

You can ask Rosmarie herself, when she was born. --193.83.231.223 (talk) 12:35, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

P.S. "For records prior to that time, they suggested that I contact the Archdiocese of Salzburg." Have you done that ?

What's now, about Rosmarie ? Is she born 1929 or not ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.83.231.223 (talk) 12:36, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

You are the one who says you have seen a certificate. So, show us what you have seen.John Paul Parks (talk) 02:35, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

Speculation

I removed this unreferenced speculation. "The wedding photographs do not give evidence of a late-term pregnancy and Maria stated 1929 as the year of her daughter's birth in her autobiography. It has been suggested that Maria's poor English skills at the time led to her making a mistake on English-language documents in 1944 and 1948. On the other hand, Maria, in her 1949 book, states that, in Europe, she knew "Mimi," a local seamstress, who showed her how to disguise pregnancy. In her 1949 book, Maria also relates that, in 1944, while building the music camp in Vermont, she was cited by the War Production Board for violating wartime building regulations and was threatened with fine and imprisonment. She signed the Declaration of Intention in 1944. Already classified as an "enemy alien" (Austria had been annexed into Germany, and the United States was at war with Germany), and having come to the attention of federal authorities for violating wartime regulations, Maria may have had an especial incentive to be completely truthful when completing the naturalization documents." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk • contribs) 15:18, 26 December 2011‎ (UTC)

Elvis Christmas Record?

"The family also made an appearance on an Elvis Presley Christmas record"

Which one?? This article is just dreadful. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.233.195.135 (talk) 00:12, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Trapp Family Singers article?

I am mighty confused as to why Trapp Family Singers redirects to here and does not have its own article. The individual von Trapp children all have their own pages, much of which is the same general family history, as do Maria's books, the Trapp family charitable organization, the Trapp resort, and the Trapp grandchildren's singing group. What gives? 72.231.10.237 (talk) 02:59, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Now done (sort of), only 7 years later... see Trapp Family - presently just a stub, but it can grow from there. Regards - Tony Tony 1212 (talk) 08:57, 31 December 2019 (UTC)

New source

Rosmary was 11 in 1940, so she was born in 1929.

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-89MT-P39V?i=6&wc=QZX5-XSG%3A790227701%2C791830401%2C803766101%2C953811901%3Fcc%3D2000219&cc=2000219

"In the end, Rosmarie suffered much more than her naughty sister, having a "nervous breakdown" shortly after her father died in 1947. Rosmarie was eighteen, and overwhelmed with anxiety."

http://heresyintheheartland.blogspot.co.at/2013/12/the-real-maria-von-trapp.html

http://flavorwire.com/428078/10-things-you-didnt-know-about-the-sound-of-music-and-the-real-life-maria-von-trapp/view-all/

--89.144.198.62 (talk) 21:06, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

http://data.matricula-online.eu/de/oesterreich/salzburg/salzburg-aigen/TFB10/?pg=315

"Trapp Rosa (sic !) "8. II. 1929"." --213.225.39.79 (talk) 09:21, 10 January 2017 (UTC)

"Trapp Eleonore "14. V. 1931"." --213.225.33.51 (talk) 12:58, 28 June 2017 (UTC)

That seems to settle it - 1929

Previously the registry wouldn't show 1928 or 1929 (only earlier) but now it does clearly show February 8, 1929. http://data.matricula-online.eu/de/oesterreich/salzburg/salzburg-aigen/TFB10/?pg=315 --CSvBibra (talk) 21:48, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

Source also shows Eleonore being born in 1931. It seems the article needs to be updated giving primary source showing 1929. Unless one argues the archdiocese contemporaneously recorded the wrong year, it seems a dead issue finally.--CSvBibra (talk) 22:03, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

I would suggest the following language in the article: Maria and Georg married on 26 November 1927. They had three children together: Rosmarie (born 1929), Eleonore ("Lorli") (born 1931), and Johannes (born 1939), who were the others' half-sisters and half-brother. A discrepancy seemed to have existed for the birth date of their oldest child, Rosmarie but release of the birth records electronically in 2017 cleared up the matter. --CSvBibra (talk) 17:34, 8 November 2017 (UTC)

The problem is that it is an index, not the registration of a birth. It appears to show that a birth was registered in 1929 without giving a date of birth. -RAN (talk) 02:07, 12 January 2018 (UTC)

It may be an index but it does state a date of February 8, 1929 (8.II 1929)--CSvBibra (talk) 19:27, 6 March 2018 (UTC)\

The date may be the date of baptism, not the date of birth.Hansel von Schnitzel (talk) 05:01, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

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Evidences

There is no evidence in the Bonn Bundesarchiv that the von Trapp house was requisitioned for Himmler or that he even visited it. His family had a small estate in Bavaria, not far to the north. Moreover, the von Trapp house was most definitely not some final HQ or redoubt towards the end of the war. Himmler, upon leaving Berlin in April 1945, headed for Hohenlychen. Not Austria which the Allies were over-running. Also, Georg von Trapp was not called up to the Kriegsmarine at the age of almost 60. It is a bizarre story. It seems more probable that the family were in financial difficulties and decided good money could be made singing in the USA. The rest is a fairy story. 86.184.37.43 (talk) 15:15, 3 March 2018 (UTC)

And then, after the war, deciding to piggyback the plight of those who suffered actual persecution, when they did not.Hansel von Schnitzel (talk) 05:04, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

Her appearance in the film

Maria can be seen briefly in 'The Sound of Music' as an extra, walking under a church in the city centre. I think this is a curiosity, worth including somewhere. Valetude (talk) 11:35, 17 April 2018 (UTC)

Baroness?

Should there be a note about her being called a baroness? From the article on her husband, Georg von Trapp, there is a note that he was never actually a baron, so Maria should not be a baroness. Natg 19 (talk) 17:07, 25 March 2022 (UTC)

Hello, I totally agree. Even if some notable papers call her a Baroness, she can not have been a baroness, if only for the simple reason that Austria abolished nobility in 1919. Ziko (talk) 13:35, 23 April 2022 (UTC)

Maria's early life

When I put in information on my recent book "Notes on the Trapp Family in Austria - From Maria's grandparents to summer 1939" (Norderstedt: BoD, 2023) on this discussion page in May 2023, it was immediately removed. Now I see that someone has added quite a lot of (mostly correct) information on Maria's birth and her paternal family in the text, referenced to church registers. (Isn't that WP:OR?) However, all these sources have been introduced and analyzed in my book last year, and I have good reason to believe that they were lifted from it. Yet my book is not mentioned. Frederick S. Litten 2003:EC:9725:6043:4528:560E:3FF0:7A1D (talk) 12:48, 10 January 2024 (UTC)