Talk:Maltese pataca

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Were any Maltese coins actually called "pataca"?[edit]

I've been searching for a while now, and have not found any source calling any Maltese coin from the Middle Ages "pataca"/"patacca", or any of the related terms ("peso", "piastre", "real"). Granted, I speak neither Maltese nor Italian.

The only close call I found was at the end of <ref name="old-cbm">, where the author states some coins (though not the copper ones described in this article!) were called "pezza" (piece) and "oncia d'argento" (silver ounce): "The highest value silver coin minted by the Order was the Maltese dollar, known as the "pezza", "oncia d'argento" or "uqija"".

It might just be my own incompetence, but I'm starting to doubt the name was actually in use at the time. Perhaps a modern-day misunderstanding? They do seem to have used multiple foreign coins during the time.

tl;dr: Please help this article by finding a reliable source that ties in the term with a Maltese coin in use at the time. — Avelludo 03:35, 20 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Somehow this didn't show up previously, but I could now find a definition for 'patacca' in a Maltese/English dictionary; it says it is "a maltese coin of 4 tarins" (Dizionario Portatile delle Lingue Maltese, 1843, p.101). Additionally, even though Google Books doesn't have a preview for it, through Google the following sentence can be read in a Maltese book: "In a jocular mood, the Maltese used to call the four tari piece "patacca" meaning a worthless coin". (Malta; the Islands and Their History, 1929, p.213).

Even though neither source specifies it, if we assume that it really was a copper coin, then I believe that narrows it down to a single coin, as all other 4 Tari coins were silver. It was issued by grandmaster Lascaris between 1636 and 1651 (Numista reference), and later overstamped by subsequent grandmasters.

However, if it really is that coin, then the information in the article at the moment – the Siege of Malta, the need to issue copper fiduciary coinage to afford labour, Valette – is just not really relevant, as that would have happened almost 100 years prior to the actual "patacca". Regardless, I'd be more confortable if a reliable source linked the copper to the patacca – and preferrably Lascaris as well –, instead of it being mere speculation by a Wikipedian. To not leave stones unturned here, there is an auction listing PDF that lists "Grand Master Lascaris copper 4 Tari (Patacca)" (item 599), but I don't believe it's much of a reputable source to use in an article. — Avelludo 05:15, 21 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]