Talk:Lynching of L. Q. Ivy

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Discrepancy[edit]

@Jacona: The article states, "While Ivy continued to maintain his innocence", yet one of the sources cited says he confessed to the crime. Magnolia677 (talk) 15:12, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Magnolia677, Read all the references. I have. Both statements are made in reliable sources. There is room for discussion on that point. — Jacona (talk) 15:21, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Magnolia677, Thanks for taking an interest! There is a load of information, and like a lot of information from that time period, the purveyors of information were extremely biased. I may have gotten some things wrong, and it certainly could use expansion and improvement!!! — Jacona (talk) 15:24, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Magnolia677, As I was working this up, I continually found contradictory sources. Roulhac's article, which is sometimes described as a foundational source for the subject, even got his name wrong. There is also some confusion between Rocky Ford, MS and Rocky Ford, GA. — Jacona (talk) 15:40, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I have looked at three of the sources cited:
  • [1] - a 1925 newspaper article published after the event.
  • [2]
  • [3] - a self-published book from 2017.
Two of the sources state he confessed to the crime, and none of the sources--unless I missed it--state that he professed his innocence. This in no way lessens the brutality of his death, but it does seem an important detail to add to the lead...that this was a horrible consequence of his own crime. Magnolia677 (talk) 19:54, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Magnolia677, You missed it, and it was not easy to miss. First off, he was never tried for a crime, so it is only an accusation, the fact that a bunch of people decided to kill him without a trial does not in any way "prove" his guilt. Next, in Roulhac's eyewitness story in the Memphis Press-Scimitar, Roulhac states that he was yelling that he didn't do it as he burned to death. In Prince, the victim's father told the mob his daughter wasn't sure it was him. In Rucker, his "confession" was according to Bradshaw, who also said he wasn't even at the murder. In every single case that says he confessed, it was stated by White apologists who had a vested interest in justifying their own illegal actions, or the illegal actions of their constituency. The one witness we can somewhat trust to be impartial, Roulhac, stated that he went to death confessing his innocence. — Jacona (talk) 21:33, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Magnolia677, Even if he had confessed, it was after torture. We know today that confessions obtained under torture are notoriously unreliable. When someone crushes a mans testicles with lemon squeezers, they are likely to say anything to get them to stop. — Jacona (talk) 21:44, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion moved from User talk:Grand'mere Eugene[edit]

...I've kind of run out of time for now, there's a lot of sources, especially there's a TON of info in this thesis, (which I'd rather not cite directly, but dive into the sources used) and this article from the New Albany Gazette. Some important things in searching is that Ivy's name was often confused with that of his father and brother (Jim Ivy, J.D. Ivy, J.P. Ivy). Some things I would like to work on are 1.) the impact on the anti-lynching movement including a book written by a politician (about "Jim" Ivy), 2.) the testimony of a white man named Russ Scott or Rush Scott and Ivy's brother J.D. that implicated an unknown white man, 3.) Scott's declaration that there was no way L.Q. had time to do what he was accused of, 4.) the identification, especially Bessie Gaines father's disbelief that Ivy was the man. 5.) The confession, which was declared by the lynchers but denied by other eyewitnesses. 6.) The torture.
Anyway, it's going to take quite some time to digest that and determine what's sourced, what's speculation, and I'm going to have to limit my involvement for the time being. I hope you'll continue to take an interest, but it's going to take investing a lot of time before doing a little editing, to get it straight.
Again, thanks for your interest in these topics! — Jacona (talk) 20:23, 19 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, Jacona, I'll take a look at the sources with an eye toward the six areas you've identified as important to the narrative about L.Q. Ivy. In my first year editing WP, I started the Freddie Gray article, and I continue to believe that the details of these stories are important, to shed light on the saddest events of our history. — Grand'mere Eugene (talk) 00:12, 20 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I made a start adding the infobox and section headings to break up the large block of text, but have not yet begun to address the six areas you've listed. I'll leave the fists one on the impact on the anti-lynching movement for you, if you have the book, and will start sifting through the sources to expand the article on the remaining topics. — Grand'mere Eugene (talk) 16:29, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Other potential sources[edit]

On the impact on the anti-lynching movement:

On testimonies of Russ/Rush Scott and J.D. Ivy and Bessie Gaines' father, and on torture:

— Grand'mere Eugene (talk) 18:50, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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