Talk:List of dignitaries at the memorial service of Nelson Mandela

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Dignitaries?[edit]

What of former heads of state/government/royalty that are attending? Like GWBush, Tony Blair, Jean Chretien, Andrienne Clarkson? Or the out of power / junior partner party leaders, like Thomas Mulcair, Nick Clegg ? -- 65.94.78.9 (talk) 01:59, 10 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Czechs and Slovaks sent a foreign minister it seems...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/nelson-mandela-memorial-whos-in-attendance/2013/12/10/5d016e8c-6197-11e3-bf45-61f69f54fc5f_story.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.227.108.10 (talk) 13:37, 13 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Chelsea Clinton???[edit]

Surely an add-on to a family invitation, not a significant invitee in any way. If we include her in the list, then we may as well list several hundred others. Her presence might have some mention in US press, but it is in no way a significant presence at the ceremony, and listing her and not so many other guests reflects severe US bias. Kevin McE (talk) 10:40, 10 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Remove the whole section per the tag. But perhaps amanpour and bono can stay.(Lihaas (talk) 12:13, 10 December 2013 (UTC)).[reply]

The NBC News Corespondent: And Director of the Clinton Global Initiative who knew and worked with Mandela was victimized by the gender apartheid of Wikipedia who demoted her to an insignificant and inconsequential female family member, may some day be the first female president. Until we recruit and welcome more diversity in the Wikipedia community such abominations will remain inevitable. Scottprovost (talk) 03:47, 12 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

She was in presence. I saw her in the event, sitting with Bill and Hillary. MinhNhat2K3 (talk) 17:58, 24 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

South African President and former presidents[edit]

I wanted to add Jacob Zuma (president of South Africa) and Thabo Mbeki and FW De Klerk (former presidents) but cannot find a logical place to do so. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.141.14.242 (talk) 13:07, 10 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

There was a perfectly logical place before someone edited the subheading to only allow 'foreign' representatives. According to Wikipedia's values, a South African cannot be a dignitary. Kevin McE (talk) 19:59, 10 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

President of Somalia[edit]

I don't know why you didn't include Somalia among the highlighted maps hence our president was there. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dalsoore (talk • contribs) 14:42, 10 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Prince Charles[edit]

You wouldn't have to be a fan of royalty in general, Charles in particular or even Britain to notice his omission. Also odd to accuse an article of Anglo-American bias when it's missed out the heir to the British throne. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nickbibby (talk • contribs) 21:20, 10 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

He was on the list earlier today, then someone pointed out that he was scheduled to attend the funeral on Sunday, not today. I didn't see him on the coverage I saw today. Do you have a source that says he was there? Kevin McE (talk) 22:08, 10 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

More lists[edit]

Can we expect such a list for every funeral/service where notables show up? This is list trivia, serving no purpose whatsoever. 207.157.121.52 (talk) 01:03, 11 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia has plenty of lists (see Wikipedia:Featured lists). I don't see an issue adding one for these very rare occasions where many, many world leaders get together. --NeilN talk to me 17:19, 11 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I must second NeilN's point, I don't see an extra list to be an issue and if event is deserving of such a list it would be this one.--Discott (talk) 21:59, 11 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

To do[edit]

  • reference for each person
  • consistent column widths between multiple tables
  • remove tags
  • reference formatting

--Another Believer (Talk) 21:20, 11 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Also, relevance is increased by including info on how rare it is to have so many dignitaries in one location, etc. --Another Believer (Talk) 21:21, 11 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Agree. I had sourced most of representatives of supranational entities, but as users (or may I call them vandals?) are edit warring by merging of un-merging this article and messing up the article in other ways, they have deleted my reference. Of course, Im not going to lost time searching 4 it and add it again. WP stinks more everyday...--HCPUNXKID (talk) 23:21, 11 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
@HCPUNXKID: Hang in there. I would suggest that editing articles for current events and high-traffic pages are more challenging and frustrating, but try not to interpret this as the decline of Wikipedia. :) --Another Believer (Talk) 17:41, 12 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Fix static columns at left of tables so the row numbers align properly with the data rows. — O'Dea (talk) 04:22, 12 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Map must be updated[edit]

The map is not updated, it needs several countries to be added:

  • Dark green: Guyana, Mauritania, Lebanon, Suriname
  • Light green: Peru, Russia

--HCPUNXKID (talk) 23:35, 11 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

As other users continue to add or remove, more needed changes:
  • Dark green: Western Sahara

--HCPUNXKID (talk) 18:00, 14 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It may not help much to comment about it here. I see some editors other than the original uploader have simply uploaded new versions at Wikimedia Commons themselves. HelenOnline 18:10, 14 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I dont know how to edit .svg maps, when I try I get an error uploading it. If you know how, you should explain it to me. Although, the map its gone, so it doesnt matter.--HCPUNXKID (talk) 10:17, 19 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

According to CNN, the funeral features representatives from EVERY SINGLE COUNTRY. So the map must be full. MinhNhat2K3 (talk) 18:10, 24 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Numbering[edit]

The columns of numbers to the left of each category are not needed. This isn't a ranking or a chronological order; it's alphabetical order. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 06:12, 14 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Colours in map[edit]

The map shows several countries with the wrong colours. Kings are heads of state, so the Netherlands should be dark green (as the king attended), whereas countries such as Norway, Sweden and Canada should be light green (as there kings and queens did not attend). 80.56.124.239 (talk) 13:58, 14 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • Dark green means either the head or state or the head of government attended (or both). Norway, Sweden, and Canada had their prime ministers (heads of government) attend. However, I agree that Netherlands should be in dark green based on the king attending; it looks like it's in light green now. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 20:23, 14 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed merge with List of dignitaries at the state funeral of Nelson Mandela[edit]

Non-Admin Closure: WP:SNOW closure. Consensus opposes the merge of the two articles. -- ТимофейЛееСуда. 00:45, 24 December 2013 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

They are two similar events that should be grouped together. Also, they are both lists that came from the one article Death and state funeral of Nelson Mandela. Epicgenius (talk) 01:53, 15 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • These are two separate events, several days apart. The funeral has a far more limited guest list. budgee (talk) 06:45, 15 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Separate events, different people. HelenOnline 09:26, 15 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Oppose – Agree with HelenOnline. Ali Fazal (talk) 13:38, 15 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose These are two different events in different locations separated by five days. There is also greater clarity of content, and clarity of organization for maintenance by editors, in keeping the two lists separate. — O'Dea (talk) 05:40, 16 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I think we should merge the two lists together. Some guests attended the memorial service would later attend the state funeral. MinhNhat2K3 (talk) 17:57, 24 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

New discussion regarding images moved here from my talk page[edit]

Your reversion of my edit

[1]

The article is entitled List of dignitaries at the memorial service of Nelson Mandela, not List of pictures of Barack Obama at the memorial service of Nelson Mandela. My reversion is valid. NorthernThunder (talk) 20:43, 16 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Have you found (or looked for) any other relevant free images? Instead of removing all the images, please try to find some others and swap them out. I will look again when I have the time but I could use some help. HelenOnline 07:28, 17 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
OK I have done what I can to crop out or reduce emphasis on Obama. He is still in three out of six images, although one only shows the back of his head. Unfortunately we have had to rely on free official White House images, hence why he is in most of them. I have also just asked GovernmentZA on Flickr if they would be willing to relax their CC licence so we can use their images here. HelenOnline 15:17, 17 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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How many leaders was there ?[edit]

Many mass media sources said that 91 leaders attend. But I don't think so. So what is the real number ? MinhNhat2K3 (talk) 18:12, 24 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

You think that because? If most sources say 91 leaders, 91 leaders it is!Pincrete (talk) 21:28, 24 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Criteria for inclusion[edit]

Pincrete and others -- thanks for your help in cleaning up the list. Since you do agree with me that some of the criteria are arbitrary, particularly for the celebrity guests, I'm wondering what your thoughts are on trimming this list down. I can agree with your take that people like Bono invited because of campaigning role, etc., so I'm thinking that the reason be included as well. So while Bono, Oprah, Desmond Tutu, and Bill Gates may make sense, I'm not sure the Spice Girls, Terrence Howard, or Annie Lennox are as necessary. (I'd also be ok with including people like Morgan Freeman, who portrayed Mandela in a movie, and South African celebrities, who may serve as unofficial cultural ambassadors.) I'm going to cut a few of the unsourced and unclear examples currently included for now. Thoughts? – Broccoli & Coffee (Oh hai) 16:42, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I have a dim recollection of Annie Lennox having been involved with free concerts during Mandela's prison years. That is perhaps indicative of our problem, the range of people who had respect/love for him. There aren't many people whose funeral would probably be "the hottest ticket in town" for the likes of Bill Gates - whose importance is unquestionable, but whose 'Mandela connection' is unknown (charitable foundation?). I agree that unsourced should go as a first step. Goodness knows why the Spice Girls were there at all. Maybe text would be better for this section.
I think wives and girlfiends should probably go, or the info merged somehow or rendered as text, since the list will inevitably always be very incomplete and "with spouse" is standard protocol for such invites. Pincrete (talk) 17:11, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Hmm, yeah that's a good point about the spouses. I'd support adding "with [guest(s)]" where appropriate, which could include their spouse, children, etc. That could eliminate the odd Members of leaders's families section.
To me the word "dignitaries" indicates more than just "important person", but also necessitates some kind of official title. At similar lists for JFK and Pope John Paul II, only official delegations from countries and international/religious organizations are included. It seems excessive here to stray too far beyond that scope. – Broccoli & Coffee (Oh hai) 18:42, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
You exercise your judgement, I'm only peripherally involved/interested ... any criteria are probably better than present muddle. I understand the usual logic of 'state funerals', but given the iconic status of Mandela - and the breadth of friendships/alliances he built up, I thought it worth a second thought as to whether sporting and cultural figures etc. should be included. But at the moment the biggest fault is the level of OR and lack of RS, so as I say, do what you think best to rein that in.Pincrete (talk) 16:31, 5 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Sebastian Pinera[edit]

please change ((Sebastian Pinera)) to ((Sebastián Piñera)) 98.239.227.65 (talk) 19:24, 3 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

 Done ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 19:51, 3 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Citiation for Queen Elizabeth II comparison[edit]

"This memorial event is the largest in the world in terms of foreign leaders, surpassing the funeral of Pope John Paul II in 2005. It then will be surpassed by the state funeral of Queen Elizabeth II on 19 September 2022"

- while I don't doubt this is correct, has the bold section been cited elsewhere? -- Chuq (talk) 02:23, 12 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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