Talk:List of association footballers who have been capped for two senior national teams

Should these players be included?

I finished the list from the RSSSF page, but one issue I realize I came across. I noticed many players switching between Germany/Austria and included them all. When I finished, I realized, that most (probably all - I have to go back and check the years) would fall into the period where their independence was being taken over. Do you think we should remove these players as it could be a situation similar to the Sudan/South Sudan situation? Or should it be left as is? RedPatchBoy (talk) 14:33, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

Yes, per the inclusion criteria in this article, players who switched from Austria to Germany because Austria became part of Germany should not be listed. I'm going to remove them from the list. Vanjagenije (talk) 08:20, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

No, because the clause states that it applies to cases where the second country is a successor state of the first. e.g. FIFA recognises that the Serbia national team is the successor of Serbia & Montenegro, so we wouldn't list players who played for both S&M and Serbia. That doesn't apply to Austria and (Nazi) Germany. I think there is a stronger argument to remove the entries where players switched to Austria from Nazi Germany, as that was a secession of a part of that larger state. That movement is more akin to players who played for (say) Czechoslovakia and then Slovakia. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 08:32, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

Year of switch

I would add a column with the year of switch, and sort the players by that year. I’m currently on vacation so it a bit uncomfortable to edit through my phone. Nehme₁₄₉₉ (talk) 20:00, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

I added the year of switch for the first table, will see if I can get around to the second. I still prefer default sorting by original nation, I feel it looks 'neater' that way. Feel it will look disjointed with flags all over the place. RedPatchBoy (talk) 20:49, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

I added the years for all the players. For players who switched back, I put two years, however, this messes up the sorting tool by year as it lists these separately. Can anyone help me make it so it gets sorted by the first year? RedPatchBoy (talk) 01:22, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

You can use "sort" template. I did an example for Guaita (don't have time rn to do all... will do later if no one else gets around to it). --SuperJew (talk) 06:45, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

Thanks RedPatchBoy (talk) 18:06, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

New criteria soon?

Just for curiosity, it seems that FIFA are looking to revisit the current criteria in September. See article. Nehme₁₄₉₉ (talk) 17:34, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

Interesting. I guess, if and when, that happens we can just create a new section starting in 2021 like we did at 2004. Then each section will apply to its corresponding rules. RedPatchBoy (talk) 17:39, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

Name change?

Maybe the title should be changed to "List of association footballers who have been capped for multiple senior national teams", as some players have represented three NTs. Or, we should change it to a more concise "List of association football dual internationalists" (or "List of dual internationalists in association football", in line with Category:Dual internationalists (football)). Thoughts? Nehme₁₄₉₉ (talk) 18:18, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

Merging cells

The cells should be merged as it improves readability. All my warmest wishes, ItsKesha (talk) 20:43, 29 June 2021 (UTC)

I don't think it does improve readability - it is actually very confusing, especially when done only partially as was done in the last edit. --SuperJew (talk) 21:12, 29 June 2021 (UTC)

I agree with SuperJew. It gets confusing especially when one column is merged and the next has multiple nations (ex. France). It's also a sortable table and the merging immediately breaks when we sort by a different column (second nation, year, name). RedPatch (talk) 22:05, 29 June 2021 (UTC)

Inclusion

@SuperJew: I saw your comment in your edit summary, so figured it was best to discuss it here.

"also wondering if we should include players playing under fake names (Budestean/Boyko) or playing illegaly (Vania & Adriana Parente) - SuperJew"

I don't think Vania and Parente were illegal at the time, but instead approval was later revoked, so I'd say they are okay, but maybe we should add a note. Budestean/Boyko is a different story because that was clear fraud - but again she did technically play for two nations. There is also Sampore, who was involved in a gender controversy and was removed from the Equatorial Guinea team. RedPatch (talk) 17:20, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

I am not familiar with the stories more than the short skim I did of the Wiki pages when seeing the additions :) But it is good anyway as a general question - Should we include players who didn't play legally for more than one country. I get the impression from the current wording of the page that we shouldn't as it seems to be based on eligibility changes based on FIFA rules, emphasised by the sections being based on different rules in different periods.

Regarding Vania and Parente, according to FIFA's source, The FIFA Disciplinary Committee has sanctioned the Equatorial Guinea Football Association with expulsion from the FIFA Women’s World Cup France 2019™ (in the event of their qualification) and a fine of CHF 100,000 for fielding ineligible players during the preliminary competition of the Women’s Olympic Football Tournament Rio 2016 - sounds as if they were ineligible at the time. Simpore def sounds interesting and deserves looking further into but I have an exam tomorrow :S --SuperJew (talk) 18:24, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

I'm not familiar with any of them either :). Found them all from . While they were ruled ineligible in 2017, it doesn't appear like their matches were ever voided. For example, Equatorial Guinea is still considered the champion of the 2012 African Women's Championship despite those women playing, so technically I guess those caps count if they are the champions? Interesting situation to say the least RedPatch (talk) 02:43, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

Year of Switch (Fifa Approval vs Actual Appearance)

I noticed the recent change for Liridon Krasniqi changing him from 2021 to 2020 (and consequently switching of tables) due to the FIFA approval being in 2020, but his debut only being in 2020. Should we establish a consensus as to the date used being switch year or appearance year. My view is that we should go with appearance year as that is what we have been doing for everyone else (would have to go back and check each one individually if we change it). Also, applying for the one-time switch isn't a guarantee that they switch. They can theoretically apply for the switch but never end up being called, in which case they wouldn't make the list anyways. My vote is change it back to 2021 and perhaps add a note saying the switch approval was granted in 2020. RedPatch (talk) 14:56, 11 October 2021 (UTC)

I think it's important to note though that the switch happened according to the "old" rules (established in 2004), not the "new" ones of 2021. Krasniqi didn't switch national teams the same way that Munir El Haddadi, for example, did. Maybe a note would be useful? Nehme₁₄₉₉ 15:08, 11 October 2021 (UTC)

Well the sections aren't fully about which rules they switched under. For example, the Ricardo Ferreira and Ayo Akinola switches in 2021 both would've been allowed under the pre-2021 rules as well (only had played friendlies). The current rules include the old rules (plus a bit more) RedPatch (talk) 15:21, 11 October 2021 (UTC)

What about the case Ardian Kozniku???

Question: Is the case of Ardian Kozniku eligible to go on this listing??? — I ask this because he first represented break-away state Kosovo from 1993 to 1994, then moved to Croatia from 1994 to 1998, then returned to Kosovo in 2002. What do you say about that?. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.124.34.2 (talk) 19:37, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

Given that Kosovo wasn't an official national team then, I would say no. Those matches would all be considered unofficial and technically fall into non-inclusion category #3. RedPatch (talk) 23:50, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

Is Mehmet Dragusha supposed to be here???

In 2002, Dragusha played for Kosovo but ...Wasn't Kosovo then an un-recognized state???. Later made caps for Albania from 2003 to 2005. Kind regards!. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.124.34.2 (talk) 19:52, 22 July 2022 (UTC)

Non-FIFA French regional teams shouldn't be listed here

Guadeloupe, Martinique, French Guiana and Reunion are French regions, recognized by FIFA as ruled by the French Football Federation. I agree it is misleading because they are overseas and some of them compete in international competitions at continental level, but they aren't FIFA members and cannot be according to current FIFA regulation.

As such, players who played for France and one of those teams, or between two of those teams, didn't do so under FIFA rules. As such, they should be excluded following the guidelines in the Non-inclusion categories section of the article. I'll make the change, feel free to comment if you disagree. Metropolitan (talk) 13:07, 4 December 2022 (UTC)

@Metropolitan: When we (myself and two other editors) created the article, we made an exception for those players who played in the CONCACAF Gold Cup, since it was the official continental competition for CONCACAF, and for those teams in order to play in that tournament, the players need to be FIFA-eligible to play (so while they wouldn't need to formally file a 'one-time switch', they would need to at least meet the 'one-time switch' rules to play). RedPatch (talk) 13:29, 4 December 2022 (UTC)

Football regional leagues of Guadeloupe, Martinique, Guiana and Réunion are all regional leagues of the French Football Federation, with exactly the same status as the Football regional leagues of Brittany or Occitania.

French Football Federation is the only FA being recognized by FIFA, so it doesn't make any sense legally speaking to consider any players from those regions to be "FIFA-eligible" to any other team than France. Eligibility rules for those regional teams are determined at CONCACAF and CAF level only. Metropolitan (talk) 13:49, 4 December 2022 (UTC)

Map of Germany is old and includes Nazi symbol

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_association_footballers_who_have_been_capped_for_two_senior_national_teams#:~:text=Under%20the%20rules%2C%20in%20order,and%20FIFA%20approval%20is%20necessary.

On this page it includes Germany flag as a Nazi symbol. This is inaccurate and offensive. 82.5.32.172 (talk) 12:24, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

It was the flag of Germany at the time concerned, i.e. between the Anschluss and 1945. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 13:17, 23 January 2024 (UTC)