Talk:List of active separatist movements in Africa

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Libya[edit]

Where is the evidence that Cyrenaica is a break-away region of Libya? This is the accusation of Muammar Gaddafi and is not based in fact. The Transitional National Council claims all of Libya as under its legitimate authority. So could someone please provide evidence for this?--Smart30 (talk) 01:03, 12 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Just yesterday USA Today reported that the US intelligence community briefed congress, stating that it is possible that Libya could break up.
— V = IR (Talk • Contribs) 01:12, 12 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
See: NYT article
— V = IR (Talk • Contribs) 01:49, 12 March 2011 (UTC) [reply]

Mr. Clapper also offered another scenario, one in which the country is split into two or three ministates, reverting to the way it was before Colonel Qaddafi’s rule. “You could end up with a situation where Qaddafi would have Tripoli and its environs, and then Benghazi and its environs could be under another ministate,” he said.

POV language[edit]

I take it you're aware that "separatist" is a biased and loaded term? Something more neutral should be used. Self-determination is not of itself a crime.--MacRùsgail (talk) 15:00, 13 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

OEAS[edit]

Have added where relevant that number of these groups are members of the OEAS - Organization of Emerging African States [1] which is a genuine NGO incorporated in the US advocating African self determination. User: resistk —Preceding undated comment added 02:51, 15 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Removing "Defacto state"[edit]

The lead presents:

Under each region listed is one or more of the following:

  • De facto state: for regions with de facto autonomy from the government
  • ....

The problem is that a state is a legal entity. There is nothing de facto about it. It either is or it isn't. In most cases all you will have is a rebel group controlling territory. GregKaye 15:03, 13 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Egypt dispute[edit]

I see an apparently unending edit war between EgyCatz and Egypt Pharaoh 1972. Please, both of you, discuss the issue on the talk page, rather than using edit summaries as your main method of communication. Thank you. --Yalens (talk) 02:27, 24 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Yes I do agree, and I'm sick of this edit war to be honset. it would be better to have a civil discussion, but there's no proof of these claims. There's no active separatist movements for Copts and never was. I understand that the Copts aren't treated as good as they should be but the title of this page is clear "List of active separatist movements in Africa". If Egypt Pharaoh 1972 is willing to start a whole new page for the Copts, it's fine but still the title of this page says it all it's a list of active separatist movements in Africa. I already said this before but there was never been a Coptic movement to separate from Egypt. it's just not the place Egypt Pharaoh 1972 wants to be to let his feelings get him in. EgyCatz (talk) 20:25, 24 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Egypt Pharaoh 1972 should join this conversation. However I did note that the entry was cited. Personally I know close to nothing about the existence of any Coptic independence movement, but what did the sources say? --Yalens (talk) 00:27, 25 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

-I'm sorry but I'think obviously exists an active Coptic independence movement, the Coptic Government In Exile aims to establish an independent state, and it works in the Coptic diaspora. It has got a you tube channel and an official website on Arabic language. see: [1] FREEWALES from the Hungarian Wikipedia 21:27, 23 August 2020

See The Coptic Question in the Mubarak Era by Sebastian Elsasser (Oxford University Press, ISBN 978-0199368396) page 274 which is a footnote saying In 1992, a formerly unknown Coptic expatriate in Germany, Fāyiz Naǧīb, even declared himself to be the leader of a "Coptic government in exile". That someone has created a website claiming to be a government in exile doesn't mean we should take it seriously. FDW777 (talk) 17:57, 25 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, you are right, it does not meet point 3 of the criteria (They are active movements with living, active members.)

However, two other movements from Egypt (Bir Tawil and Nubia) not in accordiance with the criteria:

-There is no active non-state group claiming Bir Tawil, and claims of independence are primarily made by foreign tourists for novelty effect: does not meet point 3 of the criteria (They are the citizen/inhabitants of the conflict area and do not come from another country.) I think it has place on the list of Micronations. -No current movement to separate Nubia from either Egypt or Sudan. Instead, there are active efforts among Nubian communities to get governments in Cairo to recognize Nubian's as ethnic and linguistic minorities within the Egyptian state: does not meet point 2 of the criteria (They are seeking greater autonomy or self-determination for a geographic region (as opposed to personal autonomy).) I think if nubians can be on the list, the much stronger and bigger Coptic nationalism has much greater authority. FREEWALES (talk) 17:12, 26 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I have no doubt there are other entries in this article, and other related articles, that need to be removed, I wish I had the time to look into the many claims. So please remove any entries that do not meet the inclusion criteria. FDW777 (talk) 17:18, 26 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you, OK! FREEWALES (talk) 18:48, 26 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ "حكومة الاقباط في المهجر". www.cpr-government.de/. Archived from the original on 2013-11-03. Retrieved 2012-09-20.

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Copts[edit]

Please provide evidence of active separatist movements before adding them to this article. The articles at Coptic nationalism, Copts in Sudan, Copts in Libya, Copts in Egypt and Copts do not mention the existence of an active separatist movement. FDW777 (talk) 14:49, 7 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Morocco[edit]

Western Sahara

92.0.46.161 (talk) 08:57, 18 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Uganda[edit]

Is the Rwenzururu movement still active Luxenburg lover (talk) 16:49, 18 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

According to our article Rwenzururu movement not since 1982. --T*U (talk) 23:40, 18 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Ababda[edit]

I heard that there is a seperatist movement in bir tawil Luxenburg lover (talk) 18:28, 3 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

That would be surprising, since the area is unpopulated and not claimed by any state. --T*U (talk) 09:05, 4 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Egypt[edit]

Is there a Nubian separatist movement in Egypt Luxenburg lover (talk) 17:29, 5 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Here is also a link to a site https://www.al-monitor.com/originals/2014/11/nubia-egypt-displacement-right-return-secession.html Luxenburg lover (talk) 17:32, 5 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

DRCongo: a "Republic of Kivu" claimed in Bukavu[edit]

https://afrique.lalibre.be/52152/rdcongo-une-republique-du-kivu-revendiquee-a-bukavu/

https://www.politico.cd/encontinu/2020/07/04/du-deploiement-dun-drapeau-de-la-republique-du-kivu-felix-tshisekedi-appelle-les-services-de-securite-a-traquer-les-auteurs-de-cet-acte-ignoble.html/64110/

https://zoom-eco.net/a-la-une/rdc-tshisekedi-ordonne-la-traque-et-larrestation-des-auteurs-du-drapeau-de-la-republique-du-kivu/

https://habarirdc.net/je-condamne-projet-creer-republique-kivu-balkanisation-secesssion-congo/ Thingsomyipisntvisable (talk) 14:04, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Unsourced additions[edit]

@Comores 123: It is enough now! You have been told this before, in your user talk page and through countless edit summaries, but I have to repeat: Please stop adding unsourced content to this and the other lists of active separatist movements. Wikipedia is based on verifiability, see WP:V. All content should be supported by reliable sources, see WP:RS. I will explain in detail why I have reverted your additions in your current spell of unsourced and unexplained edits:

In general: You have not provided one single source, which means that all necessary documentation will have to be present in the target articles. You have also not given one single edit summary, which gives other editors an extra job just to find out what your edits are all about. Please always use an edit summary to provide an explanation for you edits, see WP:EDITSUMMARY.

Re Cameroon: There is nothing whatsoever in the article Social Democratic Front (Cameroon) to indicate that the party is working for autonomy.

Re Djibouti: There is nothing in the article Front for the Restoration of Unity and Democracy to indicate that they are an autonomist party. Working for Afar interests is not the same as working for autonomy. Also, no sign of activity is mentioned since the insurgency ended in 2014.

Re Ethiopia: 1) According to the target article Gambela People's Liberation Movement, this movement folded in 1999, so not active. 2) The Afar Revolutionary Democratic Unity Front may in fact have been a candidate for mention in this list, but there is actually no mention of any relevant activity since at least 2012, and the affiliated party Afar National Democratic Party folded in 2019. Independent and separate sourcing is needed for this really being av active movement today. 3) The article Benishangul People's Liberation Movement does not mention autonomism or anything similar, just "rebel group" against oppression.

Re Niger: Not even a Wiki page is provided as sourcing. The "Toubou Front for the Salvation of Niger" gives exatly 1 hit on Google, and that is this article. "Toubouland" links to the article Tibesti Mountains, which does not mention the name Toubouland even once and does not mention anything about autonomism, secessionism or anything similar. Unrest, insurgency and even civil war is not the same as secessionism or autonomism, and the last instance of unrest mentioned in the 'History' section is from 2010. What this has accomplished, however, is that I have become aware of another older entry with exactly the same links in the Libya section – except that the Toubou Front for the Salvation of Libya actually exists. I have removed that one, too. As I said, civil war is not relevant here per se, and nothing mentioned in that article either about autonomy, secession or similar.

Re South Africa: The Pan Africanist Congress of Azania is an old liberation organisation, now a political party in South Africa, active during the apartheid years in parallell with the African National Congress (ANC) that they originally split from. They have never been secessionist or autonomists, but were a strong force in the fight against the apartheid. The article about them does not mention Transkei or the Xhosa people even once. It is actually an insult to mention them as separatists, as one their main ideological targets is pan-Africanism.

To sum up: There is a possibility that one of your additions may be relevant, but then proper sourcing must be presented. Any more unsourced additions with no edit summary or other explanation will be removed. I have wasted enough time on this now. T*U (talk) 21:53, 2 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

xhosaland - [2]https://www.dispatchlive.co.za/news/2021-05-03-new-amaxhosa-king-to-launch-massive-claim-for-land-across-five-provinces/ kwazulu - [3]https://www.citizen.co.za/news/south-africa/zwelithini-threatens-zulus-will-leave-sa-and-take-kzn-with-them/ 88.111.92.54 (talk) 12:18, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

do these threats of independence count as reliable sources for movements? 88.111.92.54 (talk) 12:19, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

kivu[edit]

kivu - [4]https://reliefweb.int/report/democratic-republic-congo/north-kivu-separatist-leader-surrenders-officer-charged-human 88.111.92.54 (talk) 12:20, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Recent additions[edit]

Having been busy in real life for a while, I have not been able to follow up the development of this article since my last clean-up some weeks ago. Having finally found time to study the recent additions, I find that they are following a by now well-known pattern: unsourced and badly sourced movements, several of them not even movements, mixed with conflicts that were concluded up to 25 years ago, with civil war issuues thrown in for good measure. As an eternal optimist, I will explain my edits in some detail, hoping to reach at least some of the editors responsible for the mess.

Re Cameroon: The Bamileke entry is completely unsourced, and there is nothing in the target articles to support the entry.

Re Comoros: These entries are older, but I'll include them in the clean-up. Both Anjouan and Mohéli have a history of insurgence and secessionism/autonomism, but as a result they are both now autonomous entities within the federal state of the Comoros, and there is no indication that there are currently any movements working for full independence or even extended autonomy.

Re Rep. Congo: The Ninja militia insurgency ended in 2017 with a ceasefire. Any separatist activity since that would have to be sourced.

Re Dem.rep. Congo: Yes, there is a rebellion/insurgency going on in the Kivu province, but there is nothing in any of the linked articles that indicate that the goal is secession or independence or even autonomy, which anyway would need sourcing.

Re Djibouti: Again, yes, insurgency also here, but again, no indication in target articles or in the given source that the goal is "independence, autonomy or unification with Afar region and Dankalia", as claimed. Source needed.

Re Egypt: The sources tell that nubians are "demanding the right of return to their ancestral homeland" from where they have been forcibly displaced 50 years ago. One of the sources asks whether this may "evolve into a desire to secede from Egypt and to establish an autonomous state", but that is a speculation from one journalist and not anything like a movement.

Re Ethiopia: The Gambela People's Liberation Movement folded in 1998 and the only source is from 1999. Active? Give us a break.

Re Libya: The status of the Cyrenaica part of Libya may be worth an entry in this article. It would have to be limited to claims about separatism/autonomism in the current situation after the civil war(s). I will leave that entry in, but remove the 2012 source discussing the completely different situation then, and I will add a "better source needed"-tag. The Toubouland and Tuareg entries are unsourced speculation.

Re Niger: The Front de libération Temoust folded in 1997, beating the Gambela entry of Ethiopia with one year.

Re Somalia: Puntland is currently an autonomous area within Somalia. Movements working for secession or autonomy before that are undue. The given source describes the situation when the autonomous area was created. Only active movements working for change of the current situation would belong here.

Re Sudan: As the target articles explain, the conflict has changed int a peace process, where Sudan People's Liberation Movement-North participates "in the transition to democracy in Sudan through peaceful means".

I am sure there are more entries in the article that need scrutiny, but at least we can try to rid the article of any new additions that are undue. --T*U (talk) 08:28, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Morocco[edit]

Moroccan controlled Western Sahara

could this be added to the Morocco page And does this article proof the existence of a Mzab autonomy movement in Algeria https://www.hrw.org/news/2015/08/25/algeria-pro-autonomy-activists-detained

Comores 123 (talk) 17:11, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Comores 123: Western Sahara is a complicated issue which would possibly merit a mention in the article, but it will have to be worded very carefully, so as not to misrepresent a very sensitive issue. There is another proposition further up on this page, which I like somewhat better, but I feel it should be discussed thoroughly. As it stands now, there are links to Status of Western Sahara and Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic in the Morocco section, and that may be enough. It could be discussed in a Request for comments, see WP:RfC.

As for Mzab, it remains to show through recent reliable sources that "Movement for the Autonomy of the Mzab" is anything more than a one-man show by Kameleddine Fekhar. One source from 2015 does not indicate an "active separatist movement". --T*U (talk) 17:07, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with TU-nor: Western Sahara is a very complicated issue (it is more about decolonisation than anything else), so if we ever need to over simplify it to list it on this article, then Spain (the still "de Jure administering power" of it) would be the prime choice. The Mzab thingy is most definitely a one man show. M.Bitton (talk) 14:42, 17 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Following still another attempt to include Western Sahara, it may be time to revitalise the discussion. Here is a first stab from me at a possible entry:

Western Sahara

References

  1. ^ "THE POLISARIO FRONT: A DESTABILISING FORCE IN THE REGION THAT IS STILL ACTIVE" (PDF). European strategic intelligence and security center. Retrieved 2009-04-10.

--T*U (talk) 16:39, 5 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • 1) Western Sahara is a very complicated issue (it is more about decolonisation than anything else). 2) Spain is still the de Jure administering power of Western Sahara, so if we have to add it (I personally don't think it's a good idea), it will need to be added to Spain and not Morocco (which occupies part of it). M.Bitton (talk) 16:45, 5 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Can the Volkstaat in South Africa still be considered an active separatist movement?[edit]

Is there any reason why the "Volkstaat" keeps popping up everywhere on this website? There simply isn't a serious or large movement and effort for such a state. No one talks about "Afrikaner Independence." Not only that, but a Volkstaat would require serious overstepping of international law, requiring ethnic cleansing or the removal of political rights for most of the population. So my question is when is a separatist movement officially dead? The Freedom Front Plus party in South Africa is still listed as supporting Volkstaat ideology. But you won't be able to find a single piece of modern information which indicates that they support this today. They did in the past but it's highly doubtful if they still do. They probably understand how unrealistic it is, to give a state to a minority people who are spread out all over the country. These days, the FFP is more supportive of general self determination among the peoples of South Africa, and has been getting close to the Cape Independence Movement. As well as focusing on the rights of all Afrikaans language speakers, not only (white) Afrikaners. Which should be compared to Volkstaat for what an active independence movement looks like. People who support the establishment of a Volkstaat are in an extreme minority and, to put it lightly, incredibly irrelevant and disconnected to the political landscape. I wouldn't be surprised if most urban and even conservative Afrikaners haven't even heard of the concept. Meanwhile, polling on Cape Independence has suggested that over 50% of people support a referendum and independence. Recent sources should be used where the Volkstaat is being included into pages like this one. Edit:Even when checking Wikipedia, one can see that the movement basically died out quickly in the 90's. 197.245.152.24 (talk) 05:43, 11 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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