Talk:List of French supercentenarians/Archive 1

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Categorization

Anyone want to think about categorizing them by gender?

I noticed BrownHairedGirl added some of the 2nd oldest woman in France. If we decide on adding them perhaps they can be categorized below the oldest woman in France. Neal (talk) 20:15, 17 November 2007 (UTC).

I have ordered them by date of birth.
This not a "list of the oldest people in France", it is a list of French supercentenarians, who may or may not have been the oldest people in France. There is of course no reason why someone cannot create a List of the oldest people in France, offering a table which shows who followed who. Individual name entries can be linked to this list, or to individual articles if they exist. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 18:48, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
I put that list into this article. Neptune5000 (talk) 19:18, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Templates for regions

Can someone help fix the links to flags for regions? Thanks.Ryoung122 13:30, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Flags for Martinique, Guadeloupe

Can someone change the flags for Martinique and Guadeloupe from the national French flag to the local "region" flag?Ryoung122 11:40, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Maiden names

Shouldn't these people be listed as for example Marie-Clémentine Judith Solignac née Veyrac?

As far as I know, placing a maiden name in the middle is an American thing. It's certainly not used in Britain, which uses née instead, which is derived from the French language. So I assume that France uses this system too. Can anyone clarify? SiameseTurtle (talk) 19:36, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

They should be listed by the name the outside sources use. Since the media reported her as "Clementine Solignac", this seems appropriate.Ryoung122 11:42, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Marie Audy

Greetings,

Here's a citation for Marie Audy:

http://www.sudouest.com/dordogne/actualite/article/551835/mil/4373941.html

Ryoung122 08:31, 10 April 2009 (UTC)


Marie Coulon

I'm not sure how reliable this is, but Marie Coulon is now on the list of French super-cs born in 1898:

http://www.francaiscelebres.com/1898.html


Mathilde AUSSANT Née le 27/02/1898 inconnu Troisième des français les plus âgés.


Marcelle NARBONNE Née le 28/03/1898 inconnu Quatrième des français les plus âgés.


Marie COULON Née le 04/04/1898 inconnu Cinquième des français les plus âgés.


Marie-Thérèse JEGAT Née le 02/06/1898 jegatmarietherese Sixième des français les plus âgés.


Aline BESLAY Née le 17/06/1898 INCONNU Septième des français les plus âgés.


Jeanne BERGET Née le 13/07/1898 inconnu Huitième des français les plus âgés.


Hélène CARRION Née le 14/10/1898 j Neuvième des français les plus âgés.

Ryoung122 01:41, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

"Given that Marie-Therese Jegat turned out to be Bardet, Marie Coulon is surely Marie Audy"
Comment: That's absurd...April 4 1898 and March 29 1899 aren't the same day, month, or year...and Marie is a very common name in France.Ryoung122 01:31, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

A fair point. However it is also absurd to allow Coulon and Carrion on the French page without citations, but chastise User:Pascar for adding the likes of Grazia Carbonaro on the Italian version. Pistachio disguisey (talk) 01:40, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

There is a difference...firstly in the Carbonaro case, there was no claim made to 110+, it was to 109 a year ago...that is not the case with Coulon and Carrion which have citations (posted above) dating after their 110th birthday...so you are confusing two issues.Ryoung122 01:44, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

That site does not appear to have a date, so whilst it may be accurate, I don't think that it is acceptable as a citation. Pistachio disguisey (talk) 01:56, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

The people section

Could we remove the "people" section, as it is more of a bunch of "grab bag" information than an actual list? ~one of many editorofthewikis (talk/contribs/editor review)~ 19:44, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

I think we should remove the people section, as most of the biographies are stubs anyway. Neptune5000 (talk) 20:05, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
I recently posted a few points about the people section at Talk:List of supercentenarians from the United States. I do not feel the people sections should just simply be removed. I think in some cases, some people ought to either be improved, or taken off the list, and others should probably have their own article. Some are simply too brief and are often just a collection of facts (such as "x became the oldest in the world in y, and was the last born in 1878"), without any prose about their life. Unless they were very notable cases, I don't think it's entirely necessary to have their own section. However I've tried to add information and citations where I can, but this tends to be for British cases due to the information I have access to. SiameseTurtle (talk) 20:08, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
Why shouln't they be removed? If they deserve their own article, fine, start one. If they are not notable, remove. If it is just a collection of facts, remove too, as that is present in other superc lists. ~one of many editorofthewikis (talk/contribs/editor review)~ 20:13, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
Because some are highly notable, but their subsections have very little information. They would effectively be permastubs. The advice there seems to be 'If possible, merge them into a larger article'. That's what's been done. SiameseTurtle (talk) 20:36, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
If they are so notable, then why can't we create articles for them instead of this disgracefull mess? ~one of many editorofthewikis (talk/contribs/editor review)~ 22:05, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
Some have very short articles, such as Ada Roe on the British page. She was the oldest in the world. For her, I would probably say that she deserves her own article. However for Daisy Adams and Rebecca Hewison who were 'only' oldest in the UK, I'm not so sure. What do we do with articles similar to those who were fairly notable, but have little information to make a worthwhile article on them?
Unfortunately this field seems to conflict with WP's policy of notability not being temporary. Notability in this field increases over time. I removed Charlotte Gibson from the British page a while ago and I was just thinking about giving her an article to herself. However, she was 2nd oldest in the UK, died at 110 and unfortunately even if I did move the article there, it's not going to get linked to. What I think we should do is have a section on these list pages for living supercentenarians. That way we can build up their article, and if they die 'young' (ie around 110!), and/or didn't get to a strong state of notability (eg. oldest man/woman in country), then they could be removed. If they do become quite notable, then they could be moved to their own article. Of course this would have to be judged case by case. Any deceased notable cases would be linked through the tables. SiameseTurtle (talk) 00:01, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
Again, if enough verifiable info can be found on these people, we can give them an article. Lazare Ponticelli was originally a redirect to this and now, after about a month of work, is a featured article. This should be list, not permastubs of articles that no one bothered to create. ~one of many editorofthewikis (talk/contribs/editor review)~ 00:57, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
Comment. I think you are way off-base here. The whole purpose of "merging" is that some persons might be notable, but not enough for a stand-alone article. It makes sense to have some biographical information where it is available. I would agree with removing such non-bios as "person X was the oldest person in the UK for years 19XX to 19XX and is the XYth oldest person in the UK ever." Such "cruft" isnt't really necessary. However, in many cases we have actual biographical information...some of these were world's oldest persons (such as Florence Knapp) and as such their notability will stand the test of time (in truth, some of these are not perma-stubs but stubs that can still be expanded, if someone bothered to do the work). If others fade over time, and are removed, then that's O.K. It's called "editing." But to carte blanche remove everyone goes against the plan worked out by Carcharoth, BHG, and many others. Note this isn't simply limited to just supercentenarians, either...as discussed in Nov 2007, other topics also are composed of mini-bios...Ryoung122 02:54, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
  • I suggest turning the "people" section into a table, and losing the "succession boxes". The predecessor and successors can be mention in a notes section, along with links to the relevant lists. That should tidy things up a lot. No need to lose any information, except the more trivial stuff or stuff where there is no actual biographical information. Carcharoth (talk) 03:10, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
Comment. Perhaps a bit COI, but I believe this data is best expressed in two ways: 1. mathematical/demographic; and 2. human interest. I would suggest for the former to create a list of every validated supercentenarian in the nation (for France, less than 90 persons). Then, about 10% of the articles, maybe 15%, can have an additional mini-bio (about a paragraph or two). In other words, a mini-bio for Camille Loiseau, who lived to 114, was France's oldest person, and the oldest verified person born in the year 1892, worldwide. Any person whose bio has an angle that is interesting/unique (Jean Teillet, first Frenchman to reach 110) could have one. On the other hand, no mini-bio for cases for whom no information other than age facts are known, or whose "achievement sheet" is notably lacking. If someone died as the 14th-oldest person in France, no mini-bio. Also, while a standalone article requires multiple independent sources, for a mini-bio we should be able to come up with at least one source that gives some biographical detail. Let's finish construction of the mathematical table, and then go back and decide which 10 or 15 cases, maybe 20 at most, warrant additional facts. Wikipedia is not paper but there must be a reasonable expectation that anyone with a mini-bio is at least somewhat unique and notable.Ryoung122 08:23, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
Comment Part II.

Greetings,

First I'd like to go back to Nov 2007 or so. Here is what I proposed:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Ryoung122#suggested_compromise_on_supercentenarians

The understanding was that links would be used for biographies. However, the problem was that a wiki-war broke out over "notability," and some articles were under threat of deletion (even if NOT a perma-stub and had references, such as Camille Loiseau). Part of this is due to Wiki-bias in favor of presentism and in favor of English-language material. Note, for example, a person may be covered in a French newspaper, but then what? The compromise was that each mini-bio may not be individually notable, but as examples on a list, could be. In reality, it's simply not a good idea to push an either/or solution when a merger is a real solution. This is not unique to supercentenarian articles. For example, consider THIS:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Buffy_the_Vampire_Slayer_characters http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Buffy_the_Vampire_Slayer_characters

It was decided that each character alone was not individually notable, but would warrant a paragraph or two of material in a merged list-format.

Sincerely, Robert YoungRyoung122 08:44, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

A problem with listing all supercentenarians from each country will inevitably be the long list. The UK has just gone over 100, so that table alone would be as long as the '100 oldest people' list (let alone the USA list). Then there's the list for the oldest living, the records, and chronological list of the oldest. If we were to list all of them, a different article for mini-bios will have to be made. SiameseTurtle (talk) 14:25, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

After looking at the Sunderland Echo page, maybe we could have a collapsable table with all the cases on? Or perhaps that would require too much updating of living cases. Just a thought anyway. SiameseTurtle (talk) 17:50, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Comment: the "people" section is useful and of interest. While some people like statistics, others like a human-interest story. There is a need for balance here. The problem is NOT the people section. The problem is that there needs to be some standards employed. Ryoung122 02:18, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
If the person actually has a decent biography and is notable then they should have their own article. If not then it's hardly a human-interest story. An article based more around tables allows linking to articles of specific people. It's too much to expect to list every supercentenarian from one country on a single page even if you do only include those who are more notable. SiameseTurtle (talk) 19:54, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
I think there's too much focus on statistics per se. Even a one-paragraph entry may provide enough information for someone to double-check a case in the census, or at least get a sense that this is 'real' and not just some top-down 'because I said so.' Transparency is a problem with TARP, no need to make it a problem here.Ryoung122 22:23, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Mathilde Aussant

Mathilde Aussant was born in 1898. Dr. Coles is 67 years old and he sometimes makes mistakes.Ryoung122 03:15, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
Correction: Dr. Coles is 68 years old (note the irony of the correction!).Ryoung122 01:45, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

She now lives in Centre region, département Loir-et-Cher in Morée [1] Please, keep this change, if you insist she lives in Pays-de-la-Loire, add references. => the regions and departments are place of last residence!!!— Preceding unsigned comment added by 18:50, 28 September 2009 (UTC) (talk)

Marie-Louise Mueller

Is listed twice (one in the main list and once in the emigrant list).Ryoung122 08:42, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Emigrant list

1. How can you consider people born in the French Empire, and later died in France as emigrants? 2. You cannot shove all immigrants and emigrants together. If we did that on every page, then any supercentenarian had moved country or where there was a border change during history would not count as a national on any page. It biases the pages in favour of those who never moved country. SiameseTurtle (talk) 17:45, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Giovanna Meyer-Zittel

From what I understand, she was born in Alsace (then part of Germany) and lived there when it reverted to France, before later moving to Italy. I think the point of the "emigrant" list is sort of a "footnote" section. We shouldn't exclude people completely because they moved around a lot. It also doesn't matter to me if, for example, we have an "emigrant" who moved from the UK to the U.S. listed in the UK list and the US list. I think it's one thing to want an addenda list; it's another to delete persons entirely.Ryoung122 05:52, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

GRG Validated List Has 106 persons (not inc. emigrants)

I noticed the list in the current form has only 102 persons, but the GRG list has 106 (108 inc. emigrants):

VERIFIED SUPERCENTENARIAN CASES- CHRONOLOGY FRANCE as of Mar. 6, 2009 Age place of Three or More Documents (three-stars)1 nation name born died years days R S death 1 France Marie-Virginie Duhem Aug. 2, 1866 Apr. 25, 1978 111 266 W F France 2 France Jean Teillet Nov. 6, 1866 Mar. 17, 1977 110 131 W M France 3 France Caroline Campistron May 27, 1867 Mar. 2, 1978 110 279 W F France 4 France Frederique Noel June 19, 1868 Apr. 14, 1979 110 299 W F France 5 France Augustine Teissier Jan. 2, 1869 Mar. 8, 1981 112 65 W F France 6 France Annette Faron Feb. 15, 1869 May 12, 1979 110 86 W F France 7 France Elisa Esnault Dec. 10, 1870 Apr. 25, 1981 110 136 W F France 8 France Eugenie Roux Jan. 24, 1874 June 20, 1986 112 147 W F France 9 France Jeanne Calment Feb. 21, 1875 Aug. 4, 1997 122 164 W F France 10 France Lydie Vellard Mar. 18, 1875 Sept. 17, 1989 114 183 W F France 11 France Marie-Louise Jeancard Sept. 5, 1876 Nov. 25, 1988 112 81 W F France 12 France Marie-Celine Maisonniaud Oct. 26, 1876 June 17, 1987 110 234 W F France 13 France Marie Mougin June 25, 1877 Nov. 17, 1987 110 145 W F France 14 France Josephine Choquet June 6, 1878 Feb. 14, 1991 112 253 W F France 15 France Mathilde Gauchou Mar. 19, 1879 Dec. 30, 1990 111 286 W F France 16 France Henri Perignon Oct. 14, 1879 June 18, 1990 110 247 W M France 17 Guadeloupe (FR) Felicite Jandia Feb. 12, 1881 Dec. 7, 1992 111 299 B F Guadeloupe (FR) 18 France Pauline Chabanny Aug. 20, 1881 Aug. 13, 1994 112 358 W f France 19 France Marie-Louise Antelme Dec. 28, 1881 Feb. 19, 1992 110 53 W F France 20 France Maria-Anna Higelin Nov. 18, 1882 Mar. 21, 1994 111 123 W F France 21 France Juliette Baudouin Feb. 19, 1883 Aug. 24, 1993 110 186 W F France 22 France Marthe Bellecour Apr. 18, 1883 Aug. 4, 1993 110 108 W F France 23 France Marguerite Petit July 3, 1883 Dec. 21, 1995 112 171 W F France 24 France Marie Bouvier Nov. 26, 1883 Dec. 30, 1993 110 34 W F France 25 France Marie-Therese Cau Jan. 9, 1884 Feb. 21, 1994 110 43 W F France 26 France Zoe Verot Feb. 15, 1884 Jan. 4, 1996 111 323 W F France 27 France Celestine Colombeau Feb. 17, 1884 May 9, 1996 112 82 W F France 28 France Sophie Dernoncourt May 9, 1884 June 7, 1994 110 29 W F France 29 France Nouria Hutin July 12, 1884 Aug. 23, 1994 110 42 W F France 30 Algeria (FR) Emile Fourcade July 29, 1884 Dec. 29, 1995 111 153 W M France 31 France Bernard Delhom July 9, 1885 Feb. 7, 1996 110 213 W M France 32 Spain Elisa Cubells Aug. 20, 1885 Nov. 16, 1995 110 88 W F France 33 France Marie-Helene Chanteperdrix Mar. 5, 1886 Mar. 9, 1998 112 4 W F France 34 France Jeanne Dumaine Mar. 19, 1886 Jan. 3, 1999 112 290 W F France 35 France Marie Bremont Apr. 25, 1886 June 6, 2001 115 42 W F France 36 Guadeloupe (FR) Luce Maced May 2, 1886 Feb. 25, 2000 113 299 B? F Martinique (FR) 37 France Jeanne Colas June 9, 1886 Oct. 15, 1998 112 128 W F France 38 France Maria Bigue Sept. 10, 1886 Mar. 12, 1998 111 183 W F France 39 France Maria Laborie Apr. 26, 1887 Nov. 22, 1997 110 210 W F France 40 France Henriette Megevand June 24, 1887 Jan. 7, 1999 111 197 W F France 41 France Melanie Dormois July 8, 1887 Dec. 13, 1997 110 158 W F France 42 France Alexandrine Renaud Sept. 8, 1887 Jan. 18, 1998 110 132 W F France 43 France Berthe Sadron Feb. 18, 1888 Feb. 27, 1999 111 9 W F France 44 France Louise Mallet Mar. 8, 1888 Mar. 9, 2000 112 1 W F France 45 France Marie-Louise Lambert Apr. 9, 1888 Dec. 11, 1999 111 246 W F France 46 France Juliette Merceron Apr. 23, 1888 Sept. 16, 1998 110 146 W F France 47 France Marie Fastayre May 17, 1888 May 30, 1998 110 13 W F France 48 France Marie-Louise Thurneyssen Aug. 21, 1888 June 27, 1999 110 310 W F France 49 France Germaine Haye Oct. 10, 1888 Apr. 18, 2002 113 190 W F France 50 France Marthe Denis Dec. 7, 1888 May 20, 1999 110 164 W F France 51 France Jeanne Violette Jan. 12, 1889 Nov. 27, 1999 110 319 W F France 52 France Marie-Isabelle Tuffal Jan. 14, 1889 Nov. 12, 1999 110 302 W F France 53 France Elizabeth Seube Apr. 8, 1889 Mar. 6, 2000 110 333 W F France 54 France Marie Combeleran June 8, 1889 May 23, 2001 111 349 W F France 55 France Anna Boulet June 28, 1889 Oct. 19, 1999 110 113 W F France 56 France Anne-Marie Hemery July 25, 1889 Mar. 6, 2000 110 225 W F France 57 France Blanche Marie Grosdidier Oct. 3, 1889 Oct. 10, 2001 112 7 W F France 58 France Clothilde Roy Oct. 23, 1889 Oct. 13, 2001 111 355 W F France 59 France Adeline Soboul Feb. 8, 1890 Mar. 6, 2000 110 27 W F France 60 France Alexis Daigneau Aug. 4, 1890 Apr. 3, 2001 110 242 W M France 61 France Anne Primout Oct. 5, 1890 Mar. 26, 2005 114 172 W F France 62 France Jeanne Samson Nov. 5, 1890 Dec. 4, 2000 110 29 W F France 63 France Pauline Sevaille Nov. 20, 1890 Aug. 29, 2002 111 282 W F France 64 France Marguerite Bellion Feb. 12, 1891 Jan. 29, 2002 110 351 W F France 65 France Yvonne Bory Mar. 14, 1891 Aug. 7, 2003 112 146 W F France 66 France Camille Loiseau Feb. 13, 1892 Aug. 12, 2006 114 180 W F France 67 France Jeannette Gayraud May 12, 1892 Mar. 31, 2004 111 324 W F France 68 Reunion (France) Julia Sinedia-Cazour July 12, 1892 Oct. 6, 2005 113 86 B F Reunion (France) 69 France Fanny Bruel Mar. 18, 1893 Mar. 29, 2005 112 11 W F France 70 France Germaine Stadler Mar. 29, 1893 Feb. 14, 2005 111 322 W F France 71 France Marthe Ardouin-Schmid July 12, 1893 Aug. 13, 2003 110 32 W F France 72 France Lucie Pere-Pucheu Aug. 13, 1893 Apr. 6, 2006 112 236 W F France 73 France Marthe Gojon Nov. 1, 1893 Nov. 28, 2004 111 27 W F France 74 France Marie-Simone Capony Mar. 14, 1894 Sept. 15, 2007 113 185 W F France 75 France Marie Mornet Apr. 4, 1894 Jan. 5, 2007 112 276 W F France 76 France Marie-Louise Bernede Apr. 6, 1894 Dec. 11, 2005 111 249 W F France 77 France Clementine Solignac Sept. 7, 1894 May 25, 2008 113 261 W F France 78 France Marie Vigne-Ben Cimon Sept. 23, 1894 Dec. 7, 2004 110 75 W F France 79 France Agnes Fagoo Dec. 19, 1894 Apr. 12, 2007 112 114 W F France 80 France Maurice Floquet Dec. 25, 1894 Nov. 10, 2006 111 320 W M France 81 Guadeloupe (FR) Mathilde Octavie Tafna Mar. 16, 1895 May 1, 2007 112 46 B F Guadeloupe (France) 82 Germany (Alsace) Catherine Trompeter Mar. 26, 1895 Nov. 18, 2006 111 237 W F France (Alsace) 83 France Constance Cariou May 8, 1895 Aug. 29, 2007 112 113 W F France 84 New Caledonia (FR) Marie-Louise L'Hullier June 26, 1895 Dec. 28, 2007 112 185 W F New Caledonia (France) 85 France Mathilde Rouene Aug. 13, 1895 May 20, 2006 110 280 W F France 86 France Jeanne Vuillemot Sept. 23, 1895 Jan. 3, 2006 110 102 W F France 87 Guadeloupe (FR) Eugenie Blanchard Feb. 16, 1896 114* W F lives in Guadeloupe (France) 88 France Madeleine Delmotte Apr. 20, 1896 Mar. 31, 2007 110 345 W F France 89 France Olympe Pidancet Jan. 24, 1897 Feb. 19, 2009 112 26 W F France 90 France Aime Avignon Feb. 2, 1897 Aug. 23, 2007 110 202 W M France 91 France Marie Rouch May 29, 1897 Oct. 27, 2007 110 151 W F France 92 France Louise Bontemps June 13, 1897 Nov. 6, 2007 110 146 W F France 93 France Marcelle-Jeanne Colas July 28, 1897 Mar. 11, 2008 110 227 W F France 94 France Louis de Cazenave Oct. 16, 1897 Jan. 20, 2008 110 96 W M France 95 France Jeanne Bonnard-Rochet Nov. 29, 1897 Nov. 29, 2007 110 0 W F France 96 Italy Lazare Ponticelli Dec. 7, 1897 Mar. 12, 2008 110 96 W M France 97 France Mathilde Aussant Feb. 27, 1898 112* W F lives in France 98 France Marie-Therese Bardet June 2, 1898 111* W F lives in France 99 France Aline Beslay June 17, 1898 May 6, 2009 110 323 W F France 100 France Jeanne Berget July 13, 1898 Mar. 6, 2009 110 236 W F France 101 France Helene Carrion Oct. 14, 1898 June 5, 2009 110 234 W F France 102 Guadeloupe (FR) Ismene Baffard Oct. 24, 1898 Mar. 4, 2009 110 131 B F Guadeloupe (France) 103 France Marie-Madeleine Hellio Nov. 7, 1898 Jan. 5, 2009 110 59 W F France 104 France Marie-Louise Renier Nov. 21, 1898 Jan. 5, 2009 110 45 W F France 105 France Marie Lemoigne May 31, 1899 Jan. 31, 2010 110 258 W F France 106 France Jeanne Gagnard Oct. 29, 1899 110* W F France emigrant cases 1 France Marie-Rose Mueller Sept. 20, 1896 Nov. 5, 2007 111 46 W F U.S. (CT) 2 Germany (Alsace) Jeanne Rose Meyer Zettel Dec. 6, 1896 Jan. 12, 2007 110 37 W F Italy

I'm not sure who is missing, but this can be reviewed.Ryoung122 05:56, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

Upate: I did it myself.Ryoung122 08:30, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

French pending cases

Greetings,

Since the Italy and UK lists have added "pending" cases, I might add some of these GRG-pending French cases below:

Two Documents (two-star) 1 France Marie Margueritte Robert Jan. 9, 1893 Oct. 19, 2003 110 283 W F France 2 Algeria (FR) Jeanne Hue Oct. 2, 1895 May 5, 2006 110 215 W F France 3 France Mathilde Gratry May 12, 1896 Jan. 10, 2008 111 243 W F France 4 France Fernande Revel Sept. 2, 1898 Oct. 12, 2008 110 40 W F France 5 France Marie Audy Mar. 29, 1899 Nov. 24, 2009 110 240 W F France One Document (one-star) 1 France Marie Grosclaude Oct. 15, 1897 Dec. 20, 2007 110 66 W F France 2 France Josephine-Jeanne Faure-Geors Jan. 30, 1899 Apr. 1, 2009 110 61 W F France


If someone else wants to add them, just remember NOT to assign a numeral to them and use a color-coded blue background.Ryoung122 08:32, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

Anne Primout

Please STOP REMOVING ANNE PRIMOUT. "ALGERIA" WAS "PART OF FRANCE" IN 1890 (1890-1962) AND A FRENCH COLONY, 1830-1890.Ryoung122 18:42, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Helene Cazes moved from "pending" to "validated."

http://supercentenarian-research-foundation.org/TableE.aspxRyoung122 19:56, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Denise Fétrot

Why isn't Denise Fétrot (born 27 January 1898 in Résigny, Aisne - died 15 July 2008 in Liart, Ardennes) a pending case ? Has she been unvalidated or has nobody given a single document to begin the validation of her case yet ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.112.84.98 (talk) 21:58, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Marie Davit-Piacentino

Born in Italy and died in Australia, but she lived the middle part of her life in France, which is why her case came from French statistics.Ryoung122 07:27, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

What is appropriately encyclopedic content for longevity related biographies

There is currently a discussion about what constitutes encyclopedia content on longevity related biographies at Talk:Gertrude Weaver#What is appropriately encyclopedic content for longevity related biographies please comment. I am One of Many (talk) 19:08, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

Marie Brudieux

Please review listing, as Mme. Brudieux has been added to the list of verified Living French Super-Cs, and is about three months older than Olympe Amaury. This link refers.

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marie_Brudieux

Heartfelt thanks. Auto. Auto wrote 2043/06 October 2014. 81.159.208.88 (talk) 20:43, 6 October 2014 (UTC)

Philippe Vocanson

Dead: 17 or 18 January 2015. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.126.168.8 (talk) 22:10, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

This needs a reliable source before it can be added to the page. Ca2james (talk) 23:16, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

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Regions of birth and of death

Hello,

The choice of the region is curious because there aren't official regions in France before 1960's and the new regions were born the 1st January 2016. The regions in the page are the regions between 1960's and 2015. There are other errors:

  • Eugénie Blanchard was born in Saint Barthélemy but when at her birth, Saint-Barthélemy was an area of Guadeloupe;
  • Marie-Rose Mueller was born in the territoire de Belfort (traditional area of Alsace before Revolution but in Franche-Comté since 1960's);
  • Henri Pérignon, errors for regions of birth and of death.

Instead of regions, chose departments like French pages is more coherent. What do you think ? GabrieL (talk) 14:32, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

@GabrieL: I was coming to the talk page to say the same thing. It is totally anachronistic to see people born in the 19th century assigned to regions that did not exist until 1982. Switching to departments would bring some stability (few departments were created beyond the Napoleonic ones), as well as being more precise geographically. Of course, we'll have to find sources stating their place of birth and death; the GRG tables cited in the article have no such information. Let's get working. — JFG talk 00:26, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
I have added journalistic sources for a dozen people. Lots more work to do… See if you can help. — JFG talk 07:24, 21 October 2018 (UTC)

Delete Chronological list of the oldest living person

Consensus to remove. — JFG talk 14:12, 10 November 2018 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The Chronological list of the oldest living person in France needs to be re-deleted because it is a WP:INDISCRIMINATE WP:SYNTHESIS of original research. This list has been cobbled together over many years from a range of sources, mainly people pulled from GRG tables, and is clearly a syntheses of original research. The list is also indiscriminate because while individual people are labeled the oldest person in France in the press, there is not a source proving that such a compilation as found here is a notable topic, and not a passing fancy turned into fancruft. It's not a notable list like a list of French Kings. Either way, this section needs to be deleted. Newshunter12 (talk) 23:20, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

Agreed. It is blindingly obvious that this is entirely OR and nothing more than typical longevity fanfluff. DerbyCountyinNZ (Talk Contribs) 01:03, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
Agreed. Majority of the names are sourced to a table that's over ten years out of date so is bound to be full of errors. And most of rest of the sources don't actually mention that the person was oldest from death of previous according to Google translate. Smells of WP:OR. To confirm errors, look at the source for Olympe Amaury, it says she got the "title" from a Marie Brudieux but the Wiki table says "Suzanne Burrier" and Marie isn't even mentioned at all in this article. I've tagged the sources as failed verification that don't mention the previous title holder if that helps the discussion. CommanderLinx (talk) 08:52, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
Concur with the above, for all the same reasons. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 16:34, 9 November 2018 (UTC)

Very unreliable. Legacypac (talk) 17:09, 9 November 2018 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Emigrants

The article currently has separate lists for French residents and French emigrants. However, the subject matter is "French supercentenarians", so that the places they have moved during their life should not matter to their nationality as French people and ranking as supercentenarians. Therefore I suggest merging the list of emigrants with the main list of 100 oldest French people ever. — JFG talk 08:14, 8 December 2018 (UTC)

  • Presumably everyone born in France is (or was) French so a merger makes sense. Breaking them out as a seperate list is not very useful and seems to promote those few names as special. Legacypac (talk) 12:47, 8 December 2018 (UTC)
    • I fully agree with Legcypac and the nom. It makes the most sense to merge the sections together. Newshunter12 (talk) 12:59, 8 December 2018 (UTC)

 Done — JFG talk 06:58, 9 December 2018 (UTC)

Joseph Rabenda

@TFBCT1: With this edit, you removed Joseph Rabenda. Why? The sourced 2016 article states that he was once France's oldest man. Was his birth date proven false since then? — JFG talk 10:29, 26 April 2019 (UTC)

What’s the qualifier to add him to a “verified” table? He hasn’t been verified, nor is he a recent case waiting to be verified as footnoted.TFBCT1 (talk) 16:14, 26 April 2019 (UTC)
He was duly noted as unverified. This is a "list of French supercentenarians", not "list of French supercentenarians verified by the GRG". — JFG talk 22:16, 26 April 2019 (UTC)
I have restored him. — JFG talk 20:26, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

RfC: Defining the 100 known oldest people

There is a clear consensus that this list should enumerate the 100 known oldest French people as reported by various reliable sources instead of assigning a ranking only to GRG-validated people and keeping the other entries unnumbered.

Cunard (talk) 09:36, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Should this list enumerate the 100 known oldest French people as reported by various reliable sources (proposed change), or should it assign a ranking only to GRG-validated people, and keep other entries unnumbered (status quo)? — JFG talk 07:55, 2 June 2019 (UTC)

Rationale

This rationale is mirrored from the recent RfC about the oldest Italian people.

The oldest people from France are being tracked by various sources: news reports on birthdays and deaths, articles and studies about longevity, and various special interest groups and forums. A prominent tracker of supercentenarians worldwide has been the Gerontology Research Group (GRG), which maintains a network of correspondents in several countries dedicated to discovering and validating cases of extreme age. The present article, and various others, have been historically largely sourced to the GRG's public lists of supercentenarians by nation, and a usual practice has developed of assigning a ranking only to persons that have been validated by the GRG. However, since 2016, GRG correspondents in most countries have stopped documenting people under 112 years old, so that recent cases are mostly sourced from newspaper reports; this is apparent when sorting our list by death date. As a consequence, this list is giving undue prominence to cases that were documented earlier, while newer cases are unranked, including most of the living people on the list. On the other hand, we have ample and adequate journalistic sourcing for many elder French, and few cases are actually disputed in this country. Accordingly, we should re-number the list to include all well-sourced cases, irrespective of whether they are listed by the GRG. The list would then be current and truly represent the "100 oldest ever" French people. In its current state, it would stop at Catherine Soiron, 111 years 184 days, currently ranked 81st, who would become 100th if we gave a ranking to everybody. The proposed change is also in line with general Wikipedia policy, whereby all relevant WP:RS should be considered in order to enhance our coverage of any particular topic area. — JFG talk 07:55, 2 June 2019 (UTC)

Survey

Please express your preference with Support (for ranking all well-sourced people) or Oppose (for ranking people from GRG only) and a brief rationale . Longer comments should go to the #Discussion section below.

  • Support There is adequate journalistic sourcing for many elder Frenchmen and the GRG's sharply decreased number of validations makes this a necessary change. The page no longer functions using the GRG alone. Newshunter12 (talk) 05:01, 11 June 2019 (UTC)
  • Support There is no preference in WPP for a single source, and logically it would seem GRG has to rely on old records just like anyone else. If there is a controversy, report it in DUE weight, but do not limit the sources. Cheers Markbassett (talk) 05:00, 12 June 2019 (UTC)

Discussion

There was not much participation, but given the unanimous support here and at the Italian RfC (with a lot more editors chiming in), I have implemented the proposal. — JFG talk 00:05, 12 July 2019 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Calment not really disputed

Hi, I edited this following the decision on Talk:List of the verified oldest people, but I can't manage to add a footnote like there. @Amakuru and JFG: Please help. Thanks, Yann (talk) 10:18, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

Ranking update

This article needs a ranking update. Thanks Timothy McGuire (talk) 21:03, 2 February 2020 (UTC)

Félicité Jandia (née Ajax)

Félicité Jandia's entry was sourced to a 2007 GRG table for France, which in turn stated the data was added on 7 May 2002. But according to INSEE's official death database for 1992,[1] she died two months earlier on 7 October 1992, not on 7 December, so that her age no longer belongs on the top 100 list. GRG also listed her erroneously in Guadeloupe, whereas she was born and died in Martinique per official records.[1] I have therefore erased her entry and restored a previously removed person, Juliette Trimaille, as #100. — JFG talk 12:43, 5 April 2021 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ a b "Ajax Félicité". Politologue. INSEE Data. 5 December 2019. 5de8f397634f4164071119c5. Retrieved 5 April 2021.

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Supercentenarians in the United States which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 11:49, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

Proposal to merge Valentine Ligny's article with this article.

In my opinion Valentine Ligny doesn't meet notability guidelines: 3rd oldest European, 7th oldest globally with no reason apart from being extremely old to give her any reason to have a stand-alone page. Therefore, I am proposing that her page be merged with this one. MattSucci (talk) 07:33, 7 August 2021 (UTC)

Yes, a mini-bio would probably suffice, similarly to Marie Brémont. — JFG talk 21:25, 7 August 2021 (UTC)

There's nothing in her article that justifies a mini bio. DerbyCountyinNZ (Talk Contribs) 23:13, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

I totally agree with Derby, but I thought that a merger and mini bio would be a possible compromise after NemesisAT unilaterally denied my suggestion that her page be deleted. MattSucci (talk) 04:57, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

That user seems to have habit of declining PRODs without much consideration. DerbyCountyinNZ (Talk Contribs) 06:07, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

JFG says a mini-bio is adequate. Derby says she doesn't merit anything. Personally, I lean towards Derby's point of view. If nobody else has a problem with this, and seeing as an arbitrary number of editors isn't required for consensus, I believe her page can be added to Afd, correct? MattSucci (talk) 14:05, 10 August 2021 (UTC)

Yes. DerbyCountyinNZ (Talk Contribs) 06:59, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

To be honest, I'm out of my depth with the whole Afd procedure while using my cell phone, and I won't have laptop access for at least a week. If someone can make the necessary edits, I would be grateful, otherwise I will do it as soon as possible. Regards, MattSucci (talk) 16:38, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

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