Talk:List of Fair City characters

Badly in need of cleanup

Can someone please clean this article up? It is badly in need of it. It is supposed to be a list of characters, but under any given section, not only is the character described, but the plot is discussed very much, and other characters are also described very much. − Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 21:40, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Merger proposal

After coming across the separate articles for characters, and discussing the issue in a failed deletion discussion as well as with admin DGG, I have decided to start some merger proposals. The characters in most cases, I believe, do not meet notability criteria. The articles for them are very heavy on minute plot detail, but not much else. I think that the basic overview of each character would be best included here, with their old articles remaining as redirects here. My envisioned result is that each character would be listed here with a paragraph or two about them, including their relations to other characters, their marriages/romantic entanglements to other characters and any "major" plot points that the characters have been involved in. I'll be doing this one character at a time, and will welcome any discussion about the merits (or not) of such a change. Raven1977 (talk) 19:39, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Ali O'Shea

The article for Ali O'Shea is the one I chose to start with. I did a search for sources, and minus the website for the show, can find no mention via Google about the character or the actress who portrays her for that matter. So I think she'd be a good candidate for moving here, along with a paragraph or two about her character/major stories involved. Granted, I am in the United States, so there could be mentions in the media (in Ireland for example), that might prove her to be a more major character than I believe she is as the moment. Please tell me your thoughts below, as to whether you think the basic information for this character should or should not be moved here.Raven1977 (talk) 19:39, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

well, as this is one of the worst written articles I've seen even in a area with so many low quality articles, it's a good start. Part of the problem seems to be that the article was simply added to as the season progressed. Maybe the job could best be started from by eliminating the 2/3 of it that doesn't seem to directly involve her. But the problem i foresee with this is the difficulty in describing one characters role without describing others--even more so than most soap opera. In this particular series,this would be an argument for grouping all the characters together, and arranging them not alphabetically, but in logical groups if there are logical groups. There needs to be some summary of the plot lines at some place, and there isn't any at present & it has to be synthesized from the character articles. (There is the article Storylines of Fair City, but this is really about themes, and is a supplement to a proper plot summary, not a replacement for it--the main one should be chronological.) I think doing one is more urgent than the characters. The method I like best for such things is not narrative, but a time line or other graphical representation. Unfortunately, such time lines as articles have been frequently deleted. Suggestion: first summarize them all, arrange them in groups, and then see which ones justify the fuller articles. The summaries in the list of characters will be incoherent if the major characters are omitted. In other words, first do a summary of everything. It might be well to do that starting with the major characters first, to see if describing them in 2 paragraphs clarifies the minor ones. The question now becomes who is willing to do the necessary work. IMdB gives little info, except that the show is not available presently on DVD, so it would have to be based on the existing articles, a book mentioned in the main article [1], and the web site. And possibly the other references mentioned in the article. They really do have to be all read, and checked to see if any of them provide significant coverage of the characters. The site has some character descriptions [2], and one positive thing i will say about the WP articles, they don'ts seem to be copied from there. DGG (talk) 04:42, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

revising this, I realise how big a job it is doing this really right. Perhaps the cooperation of the various editors on these articles would help--some other shows have organized Workgroups here. I've mentioned this discussion at the talk p. of the main article. DGG (talk) 05:59, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for doing that; I totally didn't even think of it. I brought up the discussion at Wikipedia:WikiProject Soap Operas though; so between the main article talk page and there hopefully we can get some input from people more familiar with the show.

Thinking about how to organize the list, I agree there needs to be a logical grouping of the characters. The best idea I've had so far is that the main sections could list each major family, with subsections for each member of that family. According to the main article there were four major families to start with, so that would be a good place to start. And perhaps from there, we can find a way to group the other characters that don't necessarily fit into those families, but are associated with them in various ways. I agree that all characters, even the major ones need a summary, but it is possible that those major characters might also justify having their own article as well.

As for a summary of the plot, I agree that probably should be done as well. Do you think that could be added to the main article? In that case, some of the plot/story from the character articles could be merged to the main article, and just the basics of who the character is/who they're related to, would be put into this article. Raven1977 (talk) 16:32, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Hi, earlier this year I cleaned up the page as it was very messy and hard to read. I also created a lot of the character pages and tried to use the format used in British soaps like Eastenders and Emmerdale. The problem with Fair City is that it is a small soap that is barely covered in the media. To make matters worse, the shows website hasn't been fully updated in about 2/3 years. I know whats written about each character is unsuitable for Wikipedia but storylines in Fair City are generally small and not sensational. I certainly agree with many of Raven1977s points and if the proposals improved the quality of ther page then I am all for it. I'm just concerned that the page wont end up the way it was less than a year ago when it was very cluttered and if I remeber correctly, had a lot of graffiti on it.Cutekitten05 (talk) 21:52, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

(unindent) Thanks for your response, I totally understand that your intent in creating the character pages was to keep this page from getting too cluttered. My thought for the rewrite of this character list article, merging content from the character pages before they are redirected here, is somewhat like what is seen at List of General Hospital characters. As opposed to a straight alphabetical list however, I'm inclined to go alphabetical by family surname, where possible, to create a sense of grouping that DGG mentioned above. Where that's not possible, the remainder of the characters would be listed alphabetically as individuals. If there's no objection, I think I'll go ahead and copy some content from the individual characters' articles here to see how it looks. I won't remove content from those individual character articles or perform any redirects, I'm just curious to see if what I'm planning in my mind will even look good at all. Raven1977 (talk) 02:37, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Oh and I forgot to say if anyone more familiar with the show sees content that I left out or got wrong, please feel free to add to what I'm doing. I think it'll take a few days to get the page up to par, so I'm going to put an "under construction" tag on it just so people who come upon it will know it's in the midst of a pretty major rewrite. Raven1977 (talk) 02:50, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Should we include the past characters aswell? Cutekitten05 (talk) 18:58, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Personally, I think it should be all characters. In making maintaining the list easier, if all characters are kept, someone won't have to keep coming back to the list to prune old characters as they leave the show. I also think it's got some benefits in thinking about it from an encyclopedic standpoint; the list will provide an extra bit of the history of this pretty long-running show, if it keeps the past characters with a brief description of their contributions to the storyline. Raven1977 (talk) 21:00, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Let's create a good "List of characters" article. I agree with Raven1977 -- Magioladitis (talk) 22:56, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your input; I forgot to message you on your talk page about this issue, so I'm glad you found the discussion.

A quick update, I've added merge templates to the following additional articles, as well as Ali O'Shea, as I haven't found any outside coverage which leads me to think they need their own separate articles: Lorcan Foley, Sylvester Garrigan, Niamh Cassidy, Carol Meehan, Paul Brennan (Fair City character), and List of recurring and minor Fair City characters. All templates point here for discussion; and I am continuing to develop the list article here as well with descriptions of characters. I realize some of us are coming off a holiday week, so I'm going to give the discussion another week or so before I redirect the articles mentioned above to this article. I want to do the merge/redirects in small batches of 5-6 at a time, to give those who want to discuss their opinions on the matter a chance to do so. I welcome all input and help with this page rehaul, as I'm discovering it's quite a large job. I think it's going to look very good when completed though. Raven1977 (talk) 23:22, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

All of the above have been merged/redirected here. I'll pick the next group of five more potential merges tomorrow (although if anyone wants to suggest some likely candidates I'm all ears). Raven1977 (talk) 05:37, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

New batch of merges proposed

I've put merge templates on the following articles: Anne-Marie Brennan, Rachel Brennan, Gina Cassidy, Bob Charles (Fair City character), and Malachy Costello. All the necessary/basic information for those characters has already been copied here, but I'll leave the templates in place for a few days in case anyone else who's got them on their watch list wants to add to the discussion here about merging before I complete the merges with redirects. Thanks, Raven1977 (talk) 22:52, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. Please merge all the character articles failing notability. -- Magioladitis 23:14, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Ive done the mergers for Malachy, Bob and a bit on Gina. Theres really no more notable information to put in about Rachel or Anne-Marie. By the way, I was wondering if we should remove Ringo Leyden (played by Keith Duffy) He was really only a guest character and served no purpose. Cutekitten05 (talk) 09:56, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for finishing that; I went ahead and redirected them to this article. Feel free to remove Ringo Leyden from the list if you feel he's an unnecessary. There was no prior page on the character that had been redirected here, so there's no reason to keep it here for merge purposes.

From this point on, it seems the merges are pretty uncontroversial. So I won't keep updating the merges on the talk pages, but I'll just keep adding the templates to this article and at the merged-from pages. I'll keep an eye on this talk page if any further discussion pops up between merges. Raven1977 (talk) 19:02, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Is adequate research carried out into each individual character before merging? For instance, in relation to Leo Dowling, and 48 hours ago taken from the first page of a quick google search. --➨♀♂Candlewicke _S^T _# :) 20:40, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

Also I question merges which have been carried out on Gina Cassidy [3] [4] and located mention of Malachy Costello in a critical essay from three years ago. That essay may be useful elsewhere as it mentions other characters too. --➨♀♂Candlewicke _S^T _# :) 20:49, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

In response to both of your paragraphs... Any articles I have found, while they may mention the characters in passing, are more about the actors who play them. With all of your sources above, with exception of [5], which I would say is more a primary source as it's from the network that broadcasts the show, these articles too have more emphasis on the actors than the characters. They would be great refs for articles about the actors here on Wikipedia, as they prove their notability, and they could be added to this article as references as well, but I don't think they prove notability of the characters themselves, as the basic requirement for notability is the need for multiple, reliable sources talking about the subject. And as for the critical essay, I don't have access to the full thing, but it seems to be about the show in general, which would be an awesome reference for the show's article, as it's in need of third-party references.

So to sum up, yes I've searched for sources, no I haven't found any character that has multiple secondary sources talking about the character him or herself, so I have merged all those as I feel they don't meet notability. Raven1977^{Talk to me}_{My edits} 21:57, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

Another note to say that if you, or anyone for that matter, wishes to try to prove me wrong and make one of these character pages notable, please go for it. When I came across them they didn't meet notability, so this is the compromise we have come up with as opposed to deleting them outright. But any editor is of course always welcome to be bold, revert a redirect in the attempt to improve an article. Raven1977^{Talk to me}_{My edits} 17:56, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Clean-up carried out

Cleaned up this page alot. Just two things:

1: The character "Cleo"'s last name is COLLINS, not Cullen.

2. The name Alan Choter was thrown into the letter B section at random, does anybody know if this is a character? Backbeatlistener (talk) 20:18, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Mike Gleeson

The deletion discussion for the Mike Gleeson article has been concluded and the result was to merge the Mike Gleeson article to this article.

If anyone familiar with the show wants to take a stab at merging in the information, a recent version can be found here. Thanks, 28bytes (talk) 23:28, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

Leo Dowling

The following may be useful sources for a Leo Dowling article.

Gallagher, Brian (3 October 2005). Inside Fair City. Rooney Media Graphics. ISBN 978-0955090202.

Fair City: 20 Years in Carrigstown DVD

https://www.herald.ie/entertainment/tv-radio/sandies-back-she-wants-a-paternity-test-from-leo-and-to-win-his-heart-27888680.html

https://archive.is/20130217233627/http://www.herald.ie/entertainment/around-town/soap-stars-real-life-heartache-1454777.html

RTÉ Guide, 10-16 February 2001 edition (Leo married his fourth wife, Pauline on 14 February 2001)

RTÉ Guide, 24-30 August 2002 edition (Leo and Carol panic when Billy’s body is found in late August 2002)

Danny157 (talk) 15:45, 21 September 2019 (UTC)

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