Talk:Leningrad People's Militia Army

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Requested move[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was no consensus. JPG-GR (talk) 04:43, 12 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Note: there's a related move request at Talk:Narodnoe_Opolcheniye#Requested_move. Biruitorul Talk 14:46, 1 July 2008 (UTC) Editors may consider centralising the discussion there. Buckshot06(prof) 22:09, 1 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Leningrad Narodnoe Opolcheniye Army → Leningrad People's Militia Army — See WP:UE - English is preferred. —Biruitorul Talk 03:11, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Biruitorul, you know full well this is not the only English translation used for the article as this was brought up on the main Project page. The function of the Narodnoe Opolcheniye was never that of a militia, and it does not translate as People's Militia either. This move is nothing but a cause to provoke conflict before an RfC has been conducted--mrg3105 (comms) ♠♥♦♣ 00:29, 1 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Kindly assume good faith and refrain from speculating on what I "know full well". I know of no RfC - I merely know that I saw a title I thought should be changed and brought it to RM for consideration. If you oppose the move, by all means say so, but do try and do this without veering into speculation on my motives. Biruitorul Talk 03:56, 1 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I assume nothing. How did you come across the article? Its interesting how you are selective about preference for English--mrg3105 (comms) ♠♥♦♣ 08:52, 1 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
WP:AGF is a fundamental guideline and you would do well to respect it. How I came across the page, and speculation about my alleged "selective preference" for English, is not germane to the topic at hand. Biruitorul Talk 14:43, 1 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Survey[edit]

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.

Discussion[edit]

Any additional comments:
If the WP:RM fails to settle on People's Militia, to avoid the half/half English/Russian of this title, would it not be more consistent if it become something like Leningradskaya N.O. Armiya? What do people think? Buckshot06(prof) 22:11, 1 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It seems to me that you are more bent on having it your way, and renaming into English than actually bothering to understand the use of "militia" in English, and in England, and the existence of Opolcheniye, and explaining the difference to the user of what is a reference work. It is more important that the subjects are defined in text and not what guideline is applied to the article titles. In this case you simply refuse to understand that militia can not be applied to Opolcheniye as a translation, and hence the many different translations that have been used over the more then 150 years in English which I have cited--mrg3105 (comms) ♠♥♦♣ 22:28, 1 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Do review WP:V (an official policy). Even if you contend Opolcheniye "cannot" be translated as "militia", what concerns us is that it has in fact been translated as "militia" by reliable sources: [1], [2], [3], [4]. Biruitorul Talk 23:22, 1 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
If you go to the Narodnoe Opolcheniye, you will see the very many different translations offered in reliable sources that I added to the article (I just need to format the references). These have been around for weeks. However, just because someone uses any given translation does not mean its a correct one, and in this case, no one does because the term and the concept are not translatable into English. The clarification of this is what a reference work is supposed to do, i.e. to survey the available published sources, and then define what the correct usage is, and sometimes find that none are--mrg3105 (comms) ♠♥♦♣ 23:29, 1 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Claims of untranslatability are generally overblown and nothing in the present case indicates Narodnoe Opolcheniye doesn't at least have an approximate translation that will be more meaningful to Anglophone readers. Biruitorul Talk 05:04, 2 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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