Talk:Le Don Hilton
Article title[edit]
The building is called La Caumine à Marie Best (or alternative spellings)- i.e. Marie Best's cottage (in Jèrriais). The National Trust for Jersey have the custom of inventing for their sites reference titles in honour of the donors, hence Le Don Hilton ("the Hilton donation"). However these titles are not placenames. So the question is: which should be the encyclopaedic article name: the placename or the NT's donor title? Arguments welcome! Man vyi (talk) 19:04, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
- Hi Man vyi, I wrestled with that question and opted for Le Don Hilton only because that is the name in all NTJ's materials. If one were to look for more info on it, that name is the one I expect tourists would use. (It is the name on my tourist map of Jersey.) It is also easier to remember/write than the Jerriais alternative. That said, I don't really have a dog in this fight. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 19:20, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
- Not an unreasonable attitude if one regards Jersey Tourism as a reliable source (but I suggest caution: some of their publicity materials are shockingly wrong). I suspect most Jersey people would be unable to remember which donor's name goes with which NTJ property. As for official usage, the building is heritage listed under its Jèrriais name (there's more useful info, but also misspellings (!), at the gov.je listed buildings entry). Man vyi (talk) 16:40, 17 July 2013 (UTC)
- Thanks for the lead to the listed buildings. Good source. As for the name, I would suggest giving the matter another week. If no one comments, as appears likely, go ahead and move the article to the La Caumine name, with a redirect from "Le Don Hilton", and some tweaking of the lead paragraph. That way it will be easy to find under either name. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 18:17, 17 July 2013 (UTC)
- Sensible proposal. I've uploaded some new photos of La Cauminne, and I checked out the signage while I was there. The Jersey Heritage sign in front of the building reads in part: "La Caumine à Mary Best was also known as the St Peter's Guardhouse, the Middle Battery, the Powder Magazine and the White House... La Caumine à Mary Best était aussi connue sous le nom de St Peter's Guardhouse, Middle Battery, Powder Magazine et White House..." The French text is suspect as it appears to be essentially a partial translation of the English text (one would think it on the face of it more likely that it was known in French as le corps de garde de Saint Pierre and la Poudrière, for example). Man vyi (talk) 07:34, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
- Good photos. As you can see, I have swapped out the lead photo, added a gallery and started the transition. One issue, before the move, is Caumine or Cauminne? Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 12:10, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
- Finally getting back to this question: the dictionary gives two modern spellings caûminne and cauminne, reflecting variant pronunciations with long or short first vowel. Modern spelling dictates the final n to be double to denote the shortness of the second vowel. However, Jersey Heritage appear to be sticking with an oldfashioned spelling with single n. Man vyi (talk) 16:09, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
- I'll go with whatever you prefer. It is a toss-up between correctness, which is good in an encyclopedia, and accessibility, which too is good.Acad Ronin (talk) 22:25, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
- Good photos. As you can see, I have swapped out the lead photo, added a gallery and started the transition. One issue, before the move, is Caumine or Cauminne? Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 12:10, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
- Sensible proposal. I've uploaded some new photos of La Cauminne, and I checked out the signage while I was there. The Jersey Heritage sign in front of the building reads in part: "La Caumine à Mary Best was also known as the St Peter's Guardhouse, the Middle Battery, the Powder Magazine and the White House... La Caumine à Mary Best était aussi connue sous le nom de St Peter's Guardhouse, Middle Battery, Powder Magazine et White House..." The French text is suspect as it appears to be essentially a partial translation of the English text (one would think it on the face of it more likely that it was known in French as le corps de garde de Saint Pierre and la Poudrière, for example). Man vyi (talk) 07:34, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
- Thanks for the lead to the listed buildings. Good source. As for the name, I would suggest giving the matter another week. If no one comments, as appears likely, go ahead and move the article to the La Caumine name, with a redirect from "Le Don Hilton", and some tweaking of the lead paragraph. That way it will be easy to find under either name. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 18:17, 17 July 2013 (UTC)
- Not an unreasonable attitude if one regards Jersey Tourism as a reliable source (but I suggest caution: some of their publicity materials are shockingly wrong). I suspect most Jersey people would be unable to remember which donor's name goes with which NTJ property. As for official usage, the building is heritage listed under its Jèrriais name (there's more useful info, but also misspellings (!), at the gov.je listed buildings entry). Man vyi (talk) 16:40, 17 July 2013 (UTC)