Talk:Lamprey

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 7 February 2022 and 20 May 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Ramen Scientist, Jazzmk2000 (article contribs).

picture

could someone get a picture of a lamprey besides its mouth as a portrait pic? i admit it's freaky and cool, but that's not the aim for an encyclopedia entry. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.212.158.13 (talk) 06:56, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

Is this OK? --83.253.26.39 23:08, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

Lamprey mouth removed, because it makes some people feel bad in certain ways, to view it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.42.173.198 (talk) 02:34, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Business Question

Sould Great Lakes lampreys be harvested and sold in SW Europe?
--D. G. Borkowski — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dgborkowski (talk • contribs) 04:36, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Locations

They are found only in temperate regions, except for Africa- that's why they're not in tropical regions? How does this make sence? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Abdul Muhib (talk • contribs) 19:37, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

The answer to the above question is that the northern and southern ends of Africa are not in the tropics (outside the Tropics of Cancer and Capricorn, respectively). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.215.128.128 (talk) 08:10, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

minor edit

I edited the piece on effects of lamprocide. Harmful effects on other species have been documented — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dmccabe (talk • contribs) 01:56, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

I deleted 'horrifying'; no basis, subjective, pointless.Dmccabe — Preceding undated comment added 03:07, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

confusion about classification

This article cites a book about modern fish saying that classifies lampreys as the sole member of the class Cephalaspidomorphi, so the article for that class now redirects to the lamprey article. But the name Cephalaspidomorphi was coined to include a group of fossil armored fish, the cephalaspids, which in turn was named for the genus Cephalaspis. The cephalaspids are usually regarded as a synonym or subgroup of the Osteostraci, which is entirely extinct. Some other orders of fossil jawless fish have also been included in the Cephalaspidomorphi.

Now, it may be that lampreys are the sole surviving cephalaspidomorphs, since their anatomy of the lamprey brain resembles that preserved in fossil skulls of Osteostracans. (The exact relations of lampreys to other jawless fish are disputed, see below.) But it makes no sense to have a separate article about cephalaspids (Osteostraci) while assuming that Cephalaspidomorphi is synonymous with lampreys, which may be the sole surviving twig of that group.

The article on Agnatha compounds the confusion by separately listing as subgroups the Osteostraci (which does not mention it belongs to Cephalaspidomorphi), Cephalaspidomorphi (which redirects to lampreys), and Petromyzontidae (which rightly redirects to lampreys).

Since some workers do not regard the lampreys as close relatives of the cephalaspids (see the Tree of Life link below) and reject their classification as Cephalaspidomorphi, it might be best to classify them as Petromyzontiformes within the Vertebrata and leave it at that for now. I'll try to clear up these articles over the next few days, but I hope someone more familiar with fossil fish will jump in.

Here are some external links:

• Palaeos site's take on Cephalaspidomorphi
• Tree of Life regarding lampreys
• Tree of Life regarding osteostracans

Cephal-odd 14:53, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

The fairly recent idea that the living agnaths are NOT sister taxa (based on morphological cladistics) has been strongly refuted by several recent molecular phylogenies -- this really should be revised. I guess because there are a bunch of out of date textbooks out there, this is a problem in many places on Wikipedia. For over a decade the data has been rolling in showing that hagfish and lamprey are clearly extant sister taxa. See:

• Mallatt, J., and J. Sullivan. 1998. (1998). "28S and 18S ribosomal DNA sequences support the monophyly of lampreys and hagfishes.". Molecular Biology and Evolution 15: 1706-1718

and

• DeLarbre Christiane ; Gallut Cyril ; Barriel Veronique ; Janvier Philippe ; Gachelin Gabriel (2002). "Complete mitochondrial DNA of the hagfish, Eptatretus burgeri: The comparative analysis of mitochondrial DNA sequences strongly supports the cyclostome monophyly.". Molecular phylogenetics and evolution 22 (2): 184-192.

76.212.89.246 (talk) 00:27, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Older Fossil Found

Scientists recently discovered a fossil about three times older than the one mentioned in the article.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/10/061025185208.htm

I'll let someone else edit the article. I'm not good at pretentious encyclopedia prose. The article cited may have some other useful ionfo. as well pertaining to this article.

-Adam S. — Preceding unsigned comment added by astrosoup (talk • contribs) 02:42, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Article says: "A few months later, in the 27 October issue of Nature, an even older fossil lamprey, dated 360 Mya, [...]" What is "360 Mya"? Tempshill 19:15, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

MYA is short for "million years ago", as is stated in the linked article. The page has been editied with this clerification. 67.103.18.138 19:55, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

vandalism

It appears we have someone who is not fond of these beasties and is taking it out on the page. I apologize if any of my reverting has removed anything useful, but there were too many pieces to fix by editing so I simply saved an older version back to the main page.Dmccabe 03:19, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Does it have predators?

Article should answer the question: Do lampreys have predators? Either in the larval stage or as adults? Tempshill 19:24, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

This link discusses some predators: http://columbian.com/article/20090813/NEWS02/708139947/ Mactenchi (talk) 00:18, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Above link is dead. Predators apparently include brown trout and walleye... both of which are in the Great Lakes. Also carp, due to the larval lamprey being in the mud.

http://www.fisheriessociety.org/proofs/lam/cochran.pdf

SEWilco (talk) 19:07, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

harmful?

Can they attack humans in the water in any way? — Preceding unsigned comment added by E tac (talk • contribs) 06:30, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

They could. However, it's highly unlikely. “There's really no risk of sea lamprey attacking humans. The risk would almost be negligible for a sea lamprey to encounter a person and then for that sea lamprey to actually attach to someone that's out there swimming in Lake Superior.” [1] Steviedpeele 02:55, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Not true, me and my brother hunt lampreys in rivers where I live, and we both got bitten by one. They hurt really bad. They just suck on you and don't let go, and not to leave out the fact how they have razor sharp teeth! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 156.34.216.99 (talk) 11:27, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

you are a person who is constantly exposed to lampreys and who also kills them. That increases the risk of attack immensely, like hunting bears significantly increases the odds of being attacked by one, or how kicking dogs increases the chance of being bitten by one. I am not surprised to hear that an animal that can defend itself will try to do so. What I would like to hear is whether a person that passes near a lamprey and doesn't harm it has any chance of being attacked. like whether they have a natural tendency to go for our yummy blood and will attack unprovoked.Melquiades Babilonia (talk) 15:29, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

OK if they can't attack what does that do to the story of Vedius Pollio and Augustus, I would like to hear more about the frequency of attacks, results and if that has any relationship to the truth of the story. 4.227.154.188 20:50, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Question - Do they kill the fish they feed on? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.199.31.89 (talk) 00:21, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Dorsal Fin?

The physical description says it has no dorsal fin, but the diagram shows two dorsal fins, labeled as dorsal fins. Maybe it should say there's no ... uh ... whatever the belly fin is called. Caudal fin? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.194.8.182 (talk) 18:18, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Good catch. I changed it to "paired" fins. — Dave (Talk | contribs) 20:05, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Larval Stage

More should be written about the larval stage of lampreys. A picture would be good too. --Savant13 13:08, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Indeed; there's plenty of good facts on this page, but there's no discussion of the life cycle. The page ammocoete merely redirects to Lamprey, yet Lamprey didn't even use the word until I worked it in. It should also discuss that at least some species are anadromous. --AHMartin (talk) 20:00, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

WikiProject Food and drink Tagging

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External Link Defunct

Lamprey as food, including recipes >>> http://www.sciencenews.org/pages/sn_arch/8_10_96/food.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.242.220.169 (talk) 11:56, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

I've removed it, thanks for making note of it. carl bunderson (talk) (contributions) 00:10, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

Taxonomy disputed

The setting of parentheses around many authors' names looks highly suspect to me. "Lampetra fluviatilis (Linnaeus, 1758)"? Hmmmmm.

Also, it is always better to move author data to the species account if it exists. Or to the genus page, if there is no species page. This helps avoid such problems with multiple badly-maintained and incongruent listings of taxonomic data. Dysmorodrepanis (talk) 21:07, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Fishbase[2] has these taxa within parentheses. The list of synonyms there shows Linnaeus originally placed L. fluviatilis in the genus Petromyzon. This genus was later broken up into Lampetra and others. DGodfrey9189 (talk) 13:31, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Found this http://eurekamag.com/keyword/p/167/petromyzontidae-001.php it suggests the following phylogenetic sequence:

-Ichthyomyzon + Petromyzon

+-Caspiomyzon

+-Tetrapleurodon

+-Entosphenus

+-Lethenteron

+-Eudontomyzodon+Lampetra --Draco ignoramus sophomoricus (talk) 09:19, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Immune system

A recent article in Nature further highlights the importance of Lempreys as evolutionary interesting animals in respect to the development of the immune system: http://www.nature.com/nri/journal/v9/n7/full/nri2590.html Interferon-lambda (talk) 11:18, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Another minor edit

I removed the following from the "Literature" section owing to 1) poor grammar, 2) off-topic (just because something looks to the viewer like a lamprey doesn't mean that it deserves a mention), and 3) seems like the author just wanted to use the term "shitweasel" and put it online.

"Stephen King's novel Dreamcatcher has alien creatures that look and move like Lampreys, which are nicknamed in the novel, shitweasels."

Huanohk (talk) 18:45, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

I noticed that this good article is missing one important thing

I first want to say that this article is long, detailed, and thorough - a credit to Wikipedia and Wikipedian. When I came here from parasitoid because I thought lampreys could possibly be linked to or mentioned in that page, I realized that it was missing one important thing: DIET

It has one sentence about how they feed, and one sentence about what they eat. I know they eat fish/fishparts, but other people who come here to learn about lampreys might not.

The " how " sentence just mentioned is "They feed on prey as adults by attaching their mouthparts to the target animal's body, then using their teeth to cut through surface tissues until they reach blood and body fluid." I see that and think "Cool! Vampire fish! Tell me more!" but the article never discusses it.

The " what " sentence just mentioned is "While lampreys are well known for those species which bore into the flesh of other fish to suck their blood, most species of lamprey are non-parasitic and never feed on other fish."

Would someone please add information about their diets.

Gatorgirl7563 (talk) 19:36, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

I agree with Gatorgirl above. What do lampreys eat? At the beginning of the article it says: "While lampreys are well-known for those species which bore into the flesh of other fish to suck their blood, most species of lamprey are non-parasitic and never feed on other fish". But then later it only talks about how lamprey attach to fish and suck out their blood. What do all of the other lamprey eat, the majority of them that don't attach to fish and suck blood??? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.30.116.234 (talk) 00:14, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

As adults, the non-parasitic/non-predatory lamprey do not feed at all: they simply mate, then die. Hence the reason why the section on feeding does not focus on the non-parasitic/non-predatory species.--Mr Fink (talk) 00:29, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

That is exactly what is needed in this article, Mr Fink. Can you dig out a source for that "Mayfly" information and add it to the article? There is a mention that the ones that don't feed as adults are living off stored reserves, but no mention of what they do as adults or how long they last. The article is a little heavy on literature and historical incidents. Zipzip50 (talk) 14:05, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

Lampreys, or morays?

Concerning the story of Vedius Pollio throwing his slave to the "lampreys" in his pond, or tank, I checked Seneca's text and I found not lampreys, but 'murenis obici iubebatur, quas ingentis in piscina continebat". A moray was also highly prized by the Romans as delicacy, an might indeed bleed the poor slave to death — and then eat it. Not being a Latinist proper, I would like someone more qualified than I am to clarify the matter.

And Jules Verne's isn't either an authority: his fights with creatures of the deep are as fantastic as Ahab's confrontation with the White Whale.

José Manuel Mota, Coimbra, Portugal — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.3.69.4 (talk) 23:36, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

The Latin word is murena and it is debated whether it refers to lampreys or to eels. Given that several translations use lamprey, it's probably fine to leave the references in. http://penelope.uchicago.edu/~grout/encyclopaedia_romana/wine/murenae.html Metalello (talk) 04:34, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

I was going to ask this too. Catching enough moray eels would have been far too much trouble, but farming them is a good solution. Given Seneca's evidence, moray eel seems morelikely than lamprey. Vince Calegon (talk) 07:20, 25 August 2018 (UTC)

Sea monster

Wasn't there a folk belief that giant lampreys could attach themselves to ships and halt them? I think it was based on an etymology naupreda ("ship predator"). --Error (talk) 00:06, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

You are thinking of the remora. This is a Latin word that means "delay" (mora) with a reduplicative re- "back" (as in, delay - hold back). I think the animal was probably mythical. What the modern remora is and if it's got any real link to the myth, I don't know. I see this partially conflicts with the next section on etymology. Vince Calegon (talk) 09:24, 30 August 2018 (UTC)

Etymology

Actually, checking DCECH, I see that the etymology for Spanish wiktionary:lamprea is Late Latin naupreda, altered later to lampreda by the influence of lambere ("To lick"). Naupreda is first found in Polemius Silvius (5th C). Naupreda could come from navis + prehendere, because of the similarities between lampreys and remoras. Since the English etymology in the article is uncited, somebody should check what English etymologist say. --Error (talk) 00:17, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

Merge with Sea Lamprey under Wiki Project Fishes

Consider merging the two articles, and dealing with them under the Fishes Project only (as in the case of the Sea Lamprey article). Since lampreys are not widely regarded as a delicacy, the importance of this article to Food and Drink is not evident. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gseydack (talk • contribs) 02:08, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

Except that Sea Lamprey concerns a specific species of lamprey, whereas this article concerns all lampreys in general.--Mr Fink (talk) 02:11, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

That, and simply because lamprey is not considered a delicacy by Americans or some modern Europeans does not negate or disqualify this as a topic under Food and Drink Project, as modern-day obscurity or American squeamishness are not good enough criteria for exclusion.--Mr Fink (talk) 03:16, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

Issue regarding use of primary sources in description of pheromone strategy in lamprey control

The material on this subject needs to come from a secondary source, and not from WP editors picking and choosing primary sources. This is the job for the secondary source writers (experts), and their publication editors. Otherwise, we are tacitly determining notability of research and primacy of discovery, in this case, in a complicated field that did not begin in 2009 (the primary source chosen to appear). THe fact that an article appeared lately, and has a promotional BBC or Nature News and Views-type lay piece associated with it does not make it the best, or even an appropriate source for the encyclopedic content. Le Prof 173.15.56.201 (talk) 01:21, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

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Programs in the US to control in waterways

Would like to add section on active control programs in the US. Feedback and input to this would be appreciated. This particular story sparked my recognition of the lack of. Chemical concerns may halt Lake Champlain treatments--Wikipietime (talk) 12:52, 16 August 2016 (UTC)

Only 18?

The 2nd paragraph states that, "Currently there are about 38 known extant species of lampreys..." and later, "...but only 18 species of lampreys are parasitic." Given that 18 is nearly 1/2 of 38, should this be rephrased? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.31.147.105 (talk) 18:46, 6 May 2017 (UTC)

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Non-parasitic lampreys

The articles says; "Non-parasitic lampreys, which are usually freshwater species, do not feed as adults; they live off reserves acquired as ammocoetes (larvae), which they obtain through filter feeding." So, they are "usually freshwater species"? Considering that all lampreys spend their larval stage in freshwater, it should mean that there are some non-parasitic species that enter the ocean. Why? The main purpose of non-parasitic species after their metamorphosis is to breed, which only happens in frehswater. If correct, it should mean they enter the ocean and then return to freshwater again to spawn, all without feeding. Which doesn't sound credible. 84.214.80.75 (talk) 20:35, 12 January 2018 (UTC)

I agree, this should probably be changed to "Non-parasitic lampreys, which are freshwater species,...". --Jules (Mrjulesd) 00:49, 13 January 2018 (UTC)

One, this sentence is basically copied from the source… Nonparasitic lampreys are usually freshwater species and do not feed as adults. They live off the reserves acquired as ammocoetes. Though the use of "freshwater species" without the article mentioning that many species are anadromous is sort of surprising and obviously leads to confusion, as anadromous species are not freshwater species. "which are usually freshwater species" is correct according to the source because apparently some non-parasitic species may not be freshwater species, but it doesn't explain how they survive in the ocean. Rhinopias (talk) 01:28, 13 January 2018 (UTC)

I've removed the sentence and expanded #Lifecycle, which I think is a more appropriate place to discuss that anyway rather than in "Characteristics". Rhinopias (talk) 02:23, 13 January 2018 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 6 February 2019 and 17 May 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Ryansnow, Niemolej.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 02:09, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Possible additions to this page

We plan on editing this page by adding information about chordate synapomorphies, evolutionary changes, and internal organs. TBDoten (talk) 16:09, 16 March 2021 (UTC)TBDoten

Something I’m considering adding to this article is a discussion of physiology that relates some of the internal anatomy to its evolutionary function and how it has diverged from related organisms.

1.) Shimeld, Sebastian & Donoghue, Phillip. Evolutionary crossroads in developmental biology: Cyclostomes (lamprey and hagfish). Development 139, 2091-2099 (2012). doi:10.1242/dev.074716

2.) Osório, Joana & Rétaux, Sylvie. The lamprey in evolutionary studies. Dev Genes Evol (2008). DOI 10.1007/s00427-008-0208-1

Kanessa192 (talk) 04:53, 19 March 2021 (UTC)

I plan on discussing some of the organs of the lamprey by describing their function. Some of the organs I plan to focus on are the heart, brain, intestines, and the pineal eye. Some of the resources I will be utilizing are as follows:

Lamprey: a model for vertebrate evolutionary research

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5071338/

Xu Y, Zhu SW, Li QW. Lamprey: a model for vertebrate evolutionary research. Zool Res. 2016;37(5):263-269. doi:10.13918/j.issn.2095-8137.2016.5.263

Osmoregulatory role of the intestine in the sea lamprey ( Petromyzon marinus)

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31747320/

Barany A, Shaughnessy CA, Fuentes J, Mancera JM, McCormick SD. Osmoregulatory role of the intestine in the sea lamprey (Petromyzon marinus). Am J Physiol Regul Integr Comp Physiol. 2020 Feb 1;318(2):R410-R417. doi: 10.1152/ajpregu.00033.2019. Epub 2019 Nov 20. PMID: 31747320.

A Median Third Eye: Pineal Gland Retraces Evolution of Vertebrate Photoreceptive Organs

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1562/2006-02-24-IR-813

Mano, H. and Fukada, Y. (2007), A Median Third Eye: Pineal Gland Retraces Evolution of Vertebrate Photoreceptive Organs†. Photochemistry and Photobiology, 83: 11-18. https://doi.org/10.1562/2006-02-24-IR-813

IreneIIS (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 08:09, 19 March 2021 (UTC)

My colleagues and I plan to collaborate to add information about organs, the 5 synapomorphies, and information about developmental adaptations. This will be done with Kanessa192TBDotenIreneIIS (talk) 08:17, 19 March 2021 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 17 February 2021 and 28 May 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Brownkr, IreneIIS, Kanessa192, TBDoten, CyahDade, 77lemonpie. Peer reviewers: Blfaubion.

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Lamprey Distrubution

I was thinking of adding this to the lamprey distribution. It gives a better idea of where they are located. Right now the Wikipedia page is missing this information.

Lampreys are found on both sides of the Atlantic Ocean. In Europe, they range from Northern Norway to the Mediterranean Sea. In North America, the lampreys are found on the southwest coast of Greenland, and the coast of Labrador. Lampreys can also be found along the Atlantic coast to the Gulf of Mexico. Jazzmk2000 (talk) 00:07, 26 February 2022 (UTC)

References

Feeding in non-parasitic adults

The articles says "For example, non-carnivorous species use their teeth to scrape algae from rocks for food". I can't access the citation (which is from 1979), but I have never heard about adult lampreys scraping algae from rocks for food. The larvae are filtering the water for nutrients, and does not have teeth or a suction disc, and the adults are either feeding on other animals or don't feed at all. The article also says "Carnivorous forms have given rise to the non-carnivorous species that feed on algae". Wouldn't it be more correct to say "The carnivorous/parasitic forms have given rise to the species that don't feed as adults"? 46.212.117.108 (talk) 04:54, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Yeah, this is incorrect. I've removed it. Hemiauchenia (talk) 20:57, 5 November 2023 (UTC)