Talk:Lafayette Escadrille

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Misleading[edit]

The current entry (read on July 8, 2005) is partially misleading, repeating a frequent confusion of the Lafayette Escadrille with the Lafayette Flying Corps. The Lafayette Escadrille was the all-American squadron formed in April, 1916, and its total roster of American pilots from 1916 until its transformation into the US 103rd two years later, was 38. The officers of the squadron were French. Other American pilots who flew for the French in French squadrons were loosely termed the Lafayette Flying Corps. For example, Eugene Bullard never flew for the Lafayette Escadrille but instead was a member of a French squadron and thus as an American flying for France could be termed a member of the Lafayette Flying Corps. This confusion led to the assertion by many descendents of American pilots that their relative had flown for the Lafayette Escadrille, a famous squadron in its day, when in fact the pilot had had nothing to do with the Lafayette Escadrille. The last of the 38 Lafayette Escadrille pilots, Charles "Carl" Dolan, died in Hawaii in 1984. He was a Sperry Company engineer from Boston, in France to install gyroscopes, who was recruited by pilots of the Escadrille in order to provide better maintenance for the squadron's planes. Another member of the Lafayette Escadrille, later famous as a writer, was James Norman Hall, co-author of Mutiny on the Bounty. To become French pilots, the Americans had to join the French Foreign Legion before undergoing pilot training. They were ranked as enlisted men, not officers, as they fought for France before the US entered the war.

Lafayette Escadrille vs. Lafayette Flying Corps[edit]

It is useful that the distinction is explained above between actual members of the Escadrille and other American pilots in the French forces. I think there's a place for that in the article. I myself added Bullard to the list of members, based on the apparently inaccurate information on his Wikipedia bio. When my edit was reversed, with no adequate explanation, it at first looked like a racist intervention.

There is also no (English, at least) Wikipedia article that brings together information on other American pilots flying for the French. Speed Demon (talk) 13:39, 12 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Flyboys(movie) tie-in?[edit]

Trailers for a movie titled Flyboys have been released in North American theaters recently. From what can be gleaned by the trailer, the movie focuses on what closely appears to be the Lafayette Escadrille (or the Flying Corps), going so far to include a charcter who appears to be Eugene Bullard (or based on thereof). Of course, my words are highly specualtive. Does anyone have any firmer information on the movie, and would it be worth mentioning it in this article?

Has anyone done any fact checking?[edit]

I will fix this article with correct information when I have the time. The original "historians" who wrote the article don't know the difference between the Lafayette Escadrille, the Lafayette Flying Corps and the French Infantry (see Eugene Bullard). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Escadrille Americaine (talk • contribs) 18:53, 31 March 2007 (UTC).[reply]

I'd like to see some documentation on Nungesser...[edit]

I've looked everywhere through Nordhoff and Hall's "The Lafayette Flying Corps" and can't find Charles Nungesser as a member anywhere. The French officers (C.O. and X.O.s) were included in the book and it seems strange that the authors (who were there) would have left out such a colorful character. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Escadrille Americaine (talk • contribs) 20:02, 6 April 2007 (UTC).[reply]

Bullard vs. Revisionists (the supporters of racism)[edit]

The absence of Eugene Bullard in this article is not racism at work, it is the result of research.

The (abysmal) movie "Flyboys" notwithstanding, Eugene Bullard was never in the Lafayette Escadrille. He was, however, in the Lafayette Flying Corps. He was highly thought of by his comrades (Nordhoff and Hall, 1920) but was sent back to the infantry after conflicts with his French superiors.

I have given up logging on and documenting my corrections to the revisionists who believe that they are taking a stand against racism. However noble their intentions, the upshot is that they do the man (Bullard) a disservice by getting his story incorrect via glossing over the actual (and historic) case of racism.

Escadrille Americaine —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.122.6.63 (talk) 21:20, 16 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Courtney Campbell[edit]

the internal link to courtney campbell redirects to an article on a 'courtney w. campbell' who served in the u.s. army (no branch) as a 2lt. in ww1. but it makes no mention of service in the escadrille de lafayette.?? also, the links to the princes link to outside websites. Toyokuni3 (talk) 05:12, 19 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Tag & Assess 2008[edit]

Article reassessed and graded as start class. --dashiellx (talk) 11:26, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The Escadrille (Squadron) was certainly NOT the same as the Corps.[edit]

Do some research BEFORE you post. Wikipedia has a shoddy reputation for inaccuracy which this article really reveals.

Eugene Bullard was NEVER in the squadron, he WAS in the corps. There were BOMBER pilots in the CORPS as well but the SQUADRON was a pursuit (FIGHTER) squadron.

Most importantly, don't try to change history merely because your credentials (of a history nature) are summed up by, "Well, I saw it in Flyboys." 'tards. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.106.254.143 (talk) 21:24, 22 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

origanal list of pilots[edit]

hopfully this list will make it eiser to reverse edits. a seperate list of support personal might be in order.

  • 1 Horace Clyde Balsley
  • 2 Stephen Sohier Bigelow
  • 3 Ray Claflin Bridgman
  • 4 Andrew Courtney Campbell, Jr., died in service
  • 5 Victor Emmanuel Chapman (1890–1916), the first American aviator to be killed in World War I
  • 6 Elliot Christoprer Cowdin
  • 7 Charles Heave Dolan
  • 8 James Ralph Doolittle, died in service
  • 9 John Armstrong Drexel
  • 10 William Edward Dugan, Jr.
  • 11 Christopher William Ford
  • 12 Edmond Charles Clinton Genet, the first American flier to die after the United States declared war against Germany
  • 13 James Norman Hall (1887–1951), co-author of Mutiny on the Bounty and Falcons of France about the Lafayette Escadrille
  • 14 Bert Hall (1885–1948) (Lt), film director, actor, author who wrote two books about being a "Flyboy" in the Lafayette Escadrille.
  • 15 Willis Bradley Haviland
  • 16 Thomas Moses Hewitt, Jr.
  • 17 Dudley Lawrence Hill
  • 18 Edward Foote Hinkle
  • 19 Ronald Wood Hoskier, died in service
  • 20 Charles Chouteau Johnson
  • 21 Henry Sweet Jones
  • 22 Walter Lovell
  • 23 Raoul Lufbery (1885–1918), an ace who died in combat after jumping from the tail of his burning fighter.
  • 24 James Rogers McConnell (1887-1917)
  • 25 MacManagle Dougles
  • 26 Marr Kenneth Archibald
  • 27 Masson pierre Diddier
  • 28 Edwin C. "Ted" Parsons
  • 29 Paul Pavelka, died in service
  • 30 Peterson David McKelvy
  • 31 Frederick Henry Prince, Jr. (1885–1963)
  • 32 Norman Prince (1887–1916), founder and ace
  • 33 Kiffin Vates Rockwell, died in service
  • 34 Robert Lockerbie Rockwell
  • 35 Laurence Dana Rumsey, Jr.
  • 36 Robert Soubiran
  • 37 William Thaw
  • 38 Harold Buckley Willis (Sgt)

Confusion Between This Article And Present-Day Lafayette Espadrille[edit]

If you Google N 124 Tete de Sioux you'll find (in French) a whole Wiki article on the modern La Lafayette "Tete De Sioux" squadron of the French Air Force. I think it rather national-centric to not include the current squadron in the English version of the history of this famous squadron even if the French reformed it after WW I when it was then devoid of Americans. Oh, and, by the way...Je suis American! 69.109.221.153 (talk) 02:30, 21 April 2013 (UTC)Kit Hill[reply]

Not sure if this apples to apples. If the No 124 Squadron is called "Tete de Sioux", then its the "Indian Head" Squadron, not the "Americain" Squadron so it isn't even the same. If we are talking about it sharing the same squadron number (124), there are dozens of examples of squadrons with the same numbers so again they don't have any thing to do with eachother. At the very most, you could have a footnote "Legacy" at the bottom that says something like the current French Air Force's "Tete de Sioux" Squadron No 124, which flies the Mirage 2000, although not a direct descendent, continues the legacy of the Lafayette Escadrille. However, anything beyond that would be undue IMO. Ckruschke (talk) 18:31, 23 April 2013 (UTC)Ckruschke[reply]

Whiskey and Soda[edit]

I was going to ask if anyone could add how a bunch of flying boys in war torn France got hold of two lion cubs, but seeing that even most fundamental problems of this article haven't been properly addressed in over twelve years, I'll probably check back sometime around 2030... --BjKa (talk) 22:53, 21 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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2020 documentary[edit]

This article fails to mention the TV documentary "The Lafayette Escadrille" (2020). I see WP now has a separate article about the Lafayette Flying Corps, but after reading both articles I'm still not clear about the distinction between the two. Muzilon (talk) 22:54, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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