Talk:Krumping/Archive 1

INtro talk

There is no introduction on 'Tight Eyez'.. how will users understand the 'big homie - little homie' concept when the example is not fully explained in itself.

Tight Eyez is a real person. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.167.213.5 (talk) 05:28, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Pteron, could you please provide a reference for the following quote: "The first clown dancer was Thomas Johnson aka Tommy the Clown, a former spokesperson for Gray Davis." Amardesich

Minutes ago I did hear the above reported on the CBS Evening News. .... Moleskiner 23:03, 11 August 2005 (UTC) krump dancin is the only way that teenagers children and most adults get a chznce to get away from all the bad i n south central los angeles.this is a positive movement that is able to tal=ke young people poff the streets corners and gangs. Just curious, why does the first sentence say that krumping is "intended for African-Americans"? If it is, could somebody explain how and why on the page?

Not sure, but I think it got there through some unnoticed vandalism. It's definitely not true I assure you, so I removed it. This article is not in a very good shape and is subject to a lot of vandalism and personal opinions. Feel free to help cleaning it up if you have the time. Wintran 23:36, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

This:

"Krumping" should never be confused with "crumping" which is a slang term for affectionate cuddling between lovers. this muscular spasm should never be confused with dancing which is not gay

needs to be removed. I'll do it. 192.59.23.211 18:37, 18 October 2006 (UTC) JHLipton

Examples in music videos

The following were moved from the main page:

• Missy Elliott's
• Madonna's Hung Up music video
• The Black Eyed Peas's
• The Chemical Brothers'
• Skinny Puppy's
• Missy Elliott's

I've taken the external links from these per Wikipedia:External links. Of course, without these links there isn't much point in this list... Can come up with some compelling reason why this list is required? brenneman^(t)(c) 07:46, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

I don't think it violates any rules stated in the External links page and is relevant to the article. It needs to be there because the only way to understand what krumping is is to see it in action. I think it's a very important part of the article and needs to be part of the actual article. These examples also show how krumping has actually influenced pop culture. They either need to be posted in the article or each one needs to be written about. - Zack

Krumping reminds me alot of an pretty old Music Video From The Prodigy "Voodoo People" from 1995. Is the video inspired by real Voodoo Dancers ? What do you think about the connection of Voodoo/Religion to the Krump Movement? -Stefan

chris brown's "gimme that" really doesn't have much krump. "run it" actually has a lot more. i also fail to see how "give it up to me" by sean paul ft. keyshia cole is much of an example either. 71.192.247.11 07:14, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

"show how krumping has actually influenced pop culture" - anyone able to explain what this means, 'cos it sounds like an exaggeration [at least].

Synner667 (talk) 18:18, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Spelling

It is a getto dance. It started in 2002, on the west coast of L.A and ended on 2005. The story goes... Tight Eyes And Big Mijo wanted to become clowns In the Tommy the clown academy, but they were to ruggard and raw for clowning(Another dance formed in L.A, created by tommy the clown. Which involves Stripper dancing, Popping and entertainment a.k.a acting like a clown.)but than Big Mijo got told that he was to ruggard for clowning. So Big Mijo, went over to Tight Eyes house to dance and stumbled over this new dance, which later on was to be called Krump (thanks to Lil C) and from there Most of the foundation moves you see in krumping originates from these three guy Tight Eyes, Big Mijo and Lil C.

Krumping has roots to Africa and tribal war dancing, Black civil history and riots of Rodney King, So the emotions and style of dancing will reflect these historical events

The history section needs to be edited or deleted as it is entirely about the history of clowing, not krumping. Why is it even there?

Without wanting to cause trouble, are people saying that Stripper dancing and popping are acting like a clown, 'cos I aint never seen a clown dance like a stripper !!

Synner667 (talk) 18:23, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Just to clarify a couple of things written above under spelling: I don't know who posted this, or where the poster got his/her information, but Krumping is not a Christian dance; the dancers are Christian and very connected to God,but it is not a Christian dance. Also, Krumping did not begin as person posting suggests, and all one has to do to know that is watch the documentary--its all explained. Krump does not have roots in Africa, in fact, if you watch the DVD extras on Rize, you'll hear Lil C say in an interview that he was shocked when he saw that part of the film--he'd never seen anything like it before--Krump was born in L.A.

Is there such a thing as a christian dance, or indeed any >insert religion here< dance ??

To fulfil that phrase, it would have to be quite ritualised, I'd imagine.

193.243.227.1 (talk) 16:40, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Indeed, Krumpdance is a Christian dance, il explain..,. when true krumpdancers krump, they krump to glorify God, and to release tension and so forth. hence the reason why it is referred to as a "christian" dance. the religion ? pentecostal. which is a denomination of christianity. where the holy spirit takes over you and causes you to dance freely in worship. that is what the "real" krump is. the krump in those music vid'z and at the party's are not the krump it was originalyy intended to be.

cross reference

There's got to be a connection between clowns, "Lil Homey" and "Big Homey", and In Living Color's "Homey the Clown". I don't know how to draw this connection in the article, though.

The grammar is still really bad, but I don't know enough about the subject to fix it.

No, there doesn't. Go back to Huey "Piano" Smith and the Clowns, early 1960s r&b performers out of New Orleans. Go back to Robert Johnson's 1930s blues song "From Four Until Late" ("You get with a no-good bunch and clown"). Clowning is an old, old black term -- many decades older than In Living Color. 64.142.90.34 (talk) 01:09, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

International Krump Movement

Due to the WikiProject Trivia Cleanup, Many articles on Wikipedia have too much trivia, and need to be shortened (or just removed altogether). This project focuses on finding, tagging and cleaning articles with too much trivia. Trivia sections shouldn't always be removed altogether - they may just require shortening.

This whole part of the section was deleted? Although everybody within Australia has had their fair share in doing their best to push it forward, some still try to claim to be the one soul person who brought it to Australia. It truly has been a shared responsibility and the true pioneers within Australia are those who accept that fact and keep pushing it forward rather than loosing the meaning of KRUMP. Most have excelled in KRUMP but there are still some who try to take fame rather than help the movement. PinoyBoy has become an ambassador within Australia and although he has tries to stay away from the internet, publications, and events (because of the notion of misinterpretations and the fact that others see this as trying to claim something), his presence is widely sought after by various KRUMP families as well as event managers/producers of various dance shows/competitions.

Leaving this: Australia: The earliest indication and traces of KRUMP in Australia was in 2002. It was demonstrated at a small talent show, based in Melbourne, by Sherwin Glen AKA PinoyBoy. During this show, a basic style kill off was shown. The start of KRUMP in Australia had begun but there was much improvement to be done; before it was to be seen as what KRUMP has become today. In 2003, Sherwin Glen showcased the first Rugged Arm Swings to be seen in Australia. In the famously distributed online clip "Old School KRUMP", we see how most are not ready for the expressive dance style, when those performing with Sherwin Glen seem to become frightened and troubled, during the second half of the clip.

This points to one person who comes across as the one person who brought KRUMP to Australia. It has been a shared responsibility

It has been ammended as: Australia: The earliest indication and traces of KRUMP in Australia was in 2002. It was demonstrated at a small talent show, based in Melbourne, by Sherwin Glen AKA PinoyBoy. During this show, a basic style kill off was shown. The start of KRUMP in Australia had begun but there was much improvement to be done; before it was to be seen as what KRUMP has become today. In 2003, Sherwin Glen showcased the first Rugged Arm Swings to be seen in Australia. In the famously distributed online clip "Old School KRUMP", we see how most are not ready for the expressive dance style, when those performing with Sherwin Glen seem to become frightened and troubled, during the second half of the clip. Everybody within Australia has had their fair share in doing their best to push it forward and it truly has been a shared responsibility.

K.R.U.M.P?

There are lots of pages on the net saying that Krump is derived from K.R.U.M.P (Kingdom Radically Uplifted Mighty Praise) and "is a dance style with Christian roots". Where does this come from? I can't see that it has any basis in the history - but this idea must have come from somewhere - even if it's false it's so common that it needs to be some discussion or explanation in the article (by someone who knows the story *and* can find real references...)Snori (talk) 19:08, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

"Where does this come from"??? Well, you can see the words "K.R.U.M.P / Kingdom Radically Uplifted Mighty Praise" right on Tight Eyez' vids. Go to youtube and do your homework, homie, and while you're there, listen to Tight Eyez give all praise for krump to God and Jesus. You say, "this idea must have come from somewhere" but if you ain't with it, don't cite-tag it just cause it's unknown to you. You don't krump, you don't watch krump vids, you know nothing about krumpin and you want us to prove it on you? Uh-uh, brother, you're just showing your ignorance. The truth is out there. 64.142.90.34 (talk) 01:05, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Well, seeing the words on Tight Eyez' vids doesn't prove anything to the origin of the word Krump. It shows an association, surely. I think Snori's concern is that "Kingdom Radically Uplifted Mighty Praise" might be a backronym. In addition, asking someone to do their homework instead of providing verifiable facts seems a bit like requesting that they synthesize the facts that are being postulated. This can lead to very unencyclopedic articles.

Whether those who are requesting verification actually krump, clown, ballroom dance or salsa is irrelevant to this issue. This claim should have supporting evidence or be rephrased. Perhaps if anyone could find a youtube video or anything in which Tight Eyez or Mijo mentions the derivation of Krump, we could at least cite this (with rephrasing as well). Otherwise, the burden of evidence still lies on those who wish to make the claim of the origin. WDavis1911 (talk) 23:15, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

It seems like the issue of K.R.U.M.P. is still coming in from various editors. I will try to clarify the issue somewhat. There is no doubt that K.R.U.M.P. is used as an acronym for Kingdom Radically Uplifted Mighty Praise. However, what is often being presented is the implication that the word Krump itself came from this acronym. In other words... did Tight Eyez and Mijo say to themselves "Hey, let's call this K.R.U.M.P., and it will stand for Kingdom Radically Uplifted Mighty Praise," or did they just name it Krump, and later on other people created a backronym for the word, one that has become popularized and accepted. These are two different things. The problem is, there are tons of MySpacers and Youtubers that we can cite for the fact that this association exists... however I have yet to see anything from an authoritative source (e.g., the founders of krump) that talk about whether the word was originally an acronym. I did find this site though: Rap Basement article on Krumping
Unfortunately, even though it claims that Tight Eyez has said this, it fails to give any information on how they would know this:

• Did they interview Tight Eyez: the article doesn't make that claim.
• Are they quoting him from a video, article in a magazine, etc.? They don't say.
• If they were a source that were known for their journalistic acuity.. perhaps we could let the lack of verifiability slide. But I'd dare say the same questions would pop up even if this were the New York Times.

I just wish that someone could give a reference to something that shows Tight Eyez or Mijo explicitly saying that krump was a word they crafted to mean Kingdom Radically Uplifted Mighty Praise. If not, we shouldn't make that claim in this article. Can someone help here?
In the meantime, I reworded the reference to the acronym to a less disputable form, and included it in the lead. WDavis1911 (talk) 04:01, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Yes! You hit the nail on the head. As an avid wikipedian I was a little disturbed to see how many blatant neutrality issues there are on this page. It is obvious that Krump has some dedicated fans, who were bold enough to share their knowledge here, but unfortunately Wikipedia is not a fansite...and that's what this page resembles. To me, the fact that K.R.U.M.P. is a backronym seems undeniable, but that's a moot point as far as Wikipedia is concerned. I will strongly encourage everyone to review Wikipedia's five pillars before jumping into this discussion. This is not a debate about who really invented Krump, or what K.R.U.M.P. really stands for--This is about what is, and what is not, suitable for addition to Wikipedia. Wikipedia is not a soapbox or platform for original research. This is policy, not opinion. Facts that cannot be referenced in PUBLISHED sources may be deleted by any editor if the problems are not addressed within a reasonable timeframe. Neutrality is a major issue here. There are ways of sharing the acronym with readers without making the assertive claim that it definitely stands for "Krump." For the sake of Krump, this article could use a major re-write. Johnny^California 05:42, 18 July 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by JohnnyCalifornia (talk • contribs)

Am I the only one concerned that "Kingdom Radically Uplifted Mighty Praise" is nonsensical? ~ Strathmeyer (talk) 00:26, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

It's not. The words refer both to the dance and the Christian ideas behind it. Btw I don't think that people who don't dance should be too shure about their facts (and so do the dancers!): it's almost impossible to get to know certain things without being directly involved into the scene.

88.116.53.226 (talk) 12:48, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

It is too nonsensical. That's non-debatable. Maikel (talk) 08:09, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

- "Krump" not new ??

From the reading of the article, it seems that krumping is nothing more than rebranded B-Boy battling and facing off, as brought to the masses by Afrika Baambaataa, and early Hip Hop [circa early 80's].
Even if it's not, shouldn't it reference B-Boy battling and the whole concept of "dance instead of violence" movement ??
193.243.227.1 (talk) 13:29, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Stylistically, krumping as a dance isn't like the dancing done in B-Boy battling, but thematically, yes I think you are right on target... there are interesting similarities between the two. How best to go about expressing that in the article with valid sources and not performing synthesis I'm not sure about. Perhaps you should write something up and add it to the page, or perhaps link some good sources on the talk page here. I'll try to help if I can find some good information. Good observation though-- I agree wholeheartedly that we should find some way of including that if we can. WDavis1911 (talk) 19:40, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

I added what you said to the article under a new section called "Style". I thought it was appropriate since both are hip-hop dance styles and since this observation is a valid one that other people probably share. References are included so this shouldn't be mistaken as synthesis or original research. // Gbern3 (talk) 17:41, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

Clowning

What happened to the discussion on Clowning and Krumping and their inter-relatedness? This section needs to be recreated/brought back. Diemunkiesdie (talk) 23:05, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Their relation to each other is discussed in the "history" section. // Gbern3 (talk) 15:48, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Christian Krump Portal? Beter source it...

This page has a Christian portal tag. If it deserves it, it better be sourced, or else I will remove the portal. Dinkytown 16:43, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

It's probably been added by someone who's enthusiatic that some of the performers of this style of dance are Christian. Now, whether that means Christian Portal should be applied... I don't know as I'm not up there with WP policy... to articles about Bonsai because some Christians do some really nice bonsai, I can't say for sure but I suspect WP policies have something written somewhere. P.S. I came to the article to find out what krumping really was. All I got was 're-re-re-worked Juba Dance'. —Bleeter (talk • contribs) 07:20, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Krump is an acronym?

Quote: The root word, Krump, is an acronym for Kingdom Radically Uplifted Mighty Praise. Like hell. The supposed acronym doesn't even make sense but is just an agglomeration of words. Maikel (talk) 08:05, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

It is an acronym; there are two sources provided for this. You already commented about this earlier under the K.R.U.M.P.? section. Why did you create a new discussion here if one already exist on this page? Not being rude; honestly, just curious. // Gbern3 (talk) 01:32, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

It's not well sourced at all. There are two sources, one of which says "one person said this"; but even that's not well sourced. Further, if it's a backronym, which the article asserts, then it perhaps shouldn't be in the lead at all, but rather, in the part of the article which discusses this particular proponent. Of the sources, one of them is behind a paywall -- could someone please excerpt the context of the assertion of Krump being a backronym? The other source simply says, "According to Tight Eyez" -- according to Tight Eyez when and where? That article doesn't have the feel of a reliable source, though. Can someone find a quote somewhere, anywhere, of Tight Eyez or Tommy Johnson (for example) discussing the actual origin of the word? Or perhaps even at this point something scholarly or at least literary? --jpgordon^{::==( o )} 06:11, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

I agree wholeheartedly. We had this discussion in previous sections, but the unfounded assertion seems to have crept its way back into the article during my time away. Btw, whether the words are nonsensical is not really relevant to our job as Wikipedians. It's about what we can verify. Anyway... can we agree to try something like this?

"Krump is often represented as K.R.U.M.P., which stands for Kingdom Radically Uplifted Mighty Praise, presenting krumping as a faith-based artform."

It represents a popular take on the word throughout the community without trying to assert it as either an acronym or a backronym, the latter which would also need citation. Then, if editors want to espouse more on theories of this using verifiable sources, then that can be added to a later section.

I changed the lead to something like this before, though mistakenly using the loaded word "acronym." What say you all, shall we try again? WDavis1911 (talk) 16:29, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

There's no reason for it to be in the lead at all, since it's not the source of the word, and is particular to one proponent. You'd need to demonstrate that it represents a popular take on the word throughout the community; the sources I've seen simply say Tight Eyez uses the expression that way. --jpgordon^{::==( o )} 22:21, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

It's easy to find sources that represent it as a popular take on the word. What's harder to find is sources that verify the fact that K.R.U.M.P. originally meant Kingdom Radically Uplifted Mighty Praise. I can't agree with your statement "since it's not the source of the word," since that is again an assertion that would have to be proven. In fact, this is my objection with the current lead. It posits that K.R.U.M.P. is a backronym, but the sources don't really support that in a verifiable manner. I think some note of the initialism is merited in the lead, since it's in approx 50% of the sources I see. But I don't care so much about that.

What I care about is not saying more than we can back up. This is the real issue. The current statement in the lead posits an unverifiable assertion ('The root word "Krump" is a backronym for...'). Previous leads did as well. I laid forth a proposal as to how we could make sufficient nod to the popularity of the perspective, without making an assertion as to its history (which we can't yet prove).

We could simply take it out altogether, but I'll bet you money that in a week's time it will pop back up in all it's unverifiable glory. I think it would be best to try and address it in a neutral manner. WDavis1911 (talk) 00:30, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

Well, it's certainly a backronym; so is Krazy Radioactive Undead Mutant Pineapples. Anyone can make up a backronym for anything. That doesn't mean it belongs in the lead. --jpgordon^{::==( o )} 00:43, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

I think you're missing my point. Do you have verifiable sources which assert that it is a backronym? WDavis1911 (talk) 00:52, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

As opposed to the source of the word? No. --jpgordon^{::==( o )} 01:02, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I don't either. Nor do I have sources that state in a verifiable manner that the word krump actually derived from the aforementioned words. I began my protest about this issue 2 years ago, and it doesn't seem that anyone has found good sources for either stance. So as I see it, we have two choices concerning this issue.

1) Just leave it out all together. This is often a good choice, but I don't think so in this case, simply because of the popularity of the perspective. I think a better option is that we

2) try to reword it in a way that we can support.

I chose the second option and gave an attempt at a rewording. I would definitely like more feedback on that attempt, as well as any alternative wordings that may correct any deficiencies.

The last, and separate, issue is "where shall we place this new wording?" I have no energy concerning this. I gave my opinion, but I could care less if it is in the lead, at the bottom of the article in small print, or encoded in a stereogram. WDavis1911 (talk) 01:42, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

Btw, just to be clear, I totally get the fact that "Krazy Radioactive Undead Mutant Pineapples" is indeed a backronym (albeit not a popular one, lol) for krump. And as such, with its lack of popularity and external sources, should not be included in the article, much less the lead. But I'm not 100% sure that the "Kingdom" blurb was constructed after krump became a word. It would only technically be a backronym if it were developed afterwards. Otherwise it would be just an acronym. Our current article is saying more than it can should on that issue. WDavis1911 (talk) 02:00, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

I did a search on Google and found two other sources: This one from NPR and another from the San Diego Union Tribune. jpgordon, neither one of these articles quote anybody but they're both "literary". It may not be exactly what you're looking for but it's something. WDavis1911, I like your suggestion. If you want, you could use this article as source to verify that Krump has faith-based roots. Hope this helps. //Gbern3 (talk) 19:03, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

Actually, the NPR article excellent to verify that the word "Krump" does is not an acronym for anything -- it "evolves from the lyrics" to a song but "the young dancers have given it another meaning". The etymology of the word is not the odd five-word phrase. The question is not whether Krump has faith-based roots; the problem we've been discussing how to characterize the relationship between that phrase and the the word. "Acronym" is demonstrably incorrect. --jpgordon^{::==( o )} 04:07, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

Since no one has raised any qualms, I moved krump's word origins from the lead to History section. //Gbern3 (talk) 10:39, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Does anyone have a photo that reflects the clowning history of krumping?

If so, please submit. I can't find one with the proper license but I will keep searching. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ongepotchket (talk • contribs) 04:44, 6 August 2012 (UTC)