Talk:Kosovo War/Archive 5
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| Archive 1 | ← | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | Archive 7 | Archive 8 |
Set Ups
Now it's obvious how many set ups by Albanians and western states were made to Serbs and truth is going out more and more, so please, now add more informations on big mafia network of Albanian and organ trafficking taken from kidnapped Serbs. So cruel! http://de-construct.net/?p=3644 http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/919765--police-detain-doctor-who-allegedly-played-role-in-kosovo-organ-trafficking —Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.223.15.11 (talk) 19:02, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
Unprofessional Statements & New Material
This sentence "...(significant numbers of Albanians were left in the Republic of Macedonia, Montenegro, and Serbia though the majority of its inhabitants were Albanian)" doesn't make sense. 128.135.100.102 (talk) 07:39, 19 April 2011 (UTC)
This was not the first humanitarian war. Please read about the intervention of Tanzania into Uganda to overthrow Iddi Amin. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.7.115.74 (talk) 13:27, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
Unprofessional Evidence
Hello guys. I'm Albanian and new to this article. Well, enough with the introductions.
There are a few problems I encoutered. Unfortunately, I didn't start this discussion until late while reading the article, which means there are many more problems that I left unmentioned:
1. I ran across this end-paragraph: <The American and British delegations must have known that the new version would never be accepted by the Serbs or the Contact Group. These latter provisions were much the same as had been applied to Bosnia for the SFOR (Stabilisation Force) mission there.> --While the second sentence is fine, the first one seems very unprofessional to me. I think we should alter its structure. I'd suggest we merge the two sentences and provide the second sentence as the basis on the assumption made in the first sentence. Although I might be completely wrong since I have no idea what the second sentence is talking about.
And its there again a few lines down: "The Serbian delegation must have known..."
2. <A postwar statistical analysis of the patterns of displacement, conducted by Patrick Ball of the American Association for the Advancement of Science [17], found that there was a direct correlation between Serbian security force operations and refugee outflows, with NATO operations having very little effect on the displacements. There was other evidence of the refugee crisis having been deliberately manufactured: many refugees reported that their identity cards had been confiscated by security forces, making it much harder for them to prove that they were bona fide Yugoslav citizens. Indeed, since the conflict ended Serbian sources have claimed that many of those who joined the refugee return were in fact Albanians from outside Kosovo.> --The first statement cites a reference and the very structure of the sentence is highly professional. The second statement starting at "There was other evidence..." does not cite any references. What's worse, what is later called "Serbian sources" is first refered to as "evidence". And I don't want to sound like an *sshole, but the guy who wrote those sentences is not a good english speaker. Might be Chinese...might be Serbian.
3. <Gypsies, were also driven out after being brutalized by Albanians.> --Either give a reference or delete that! Because sounds teenage b*llshit to me. Albania has a lot of gipsies, especially Tirana, the capital. Albanians have nothing against the gipsies. Yes, there are less educated than the other part of the population, but we respect their rights to the fullest. And its "gipsy", not "gypsi".
New Material
On an unintentional look on the recent history of the article, I saw that on June, 10 user Edrigu removed this statement: <between 1,200 and 1,500 bodies were destroyed at Trepca mine.> claiming that the link did not support it. I found another link that supports that statement: http://americanradioworks.publicradio.org/features/kosovo/burning_evidence/story6.html
In fact, the link already supplied did support that statement in first place, you just had to move to page 4 of that article. http://www.hrw.org/reports/2001/kosovo/undword-03.htm
Wasn't very hard to find those links. Just Googled for "trepca 1200 1500". But seeing the discussion history of that user, I don't think he was very keen on writing the whole documented truth.
I didn't edit the article myself since I don't want to "break in" in what seems a very controversial topic. I'll check back in a few days.Outsid3r 06:38, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
- I haven't done more than grammatical fixes here either, as I have neither the time nor desire to get into the edit wars I've seen happen with this article, which I definitely agree is strewn with POV problems. However, the English in 2 (though POV/uncited) is fine, if not perfectly "encyclopedic" (mostly because of the "indeed"). And "gypsies" (singular "gypsy") is correct. It seems the British version is as you've spelled it, but I strongly recall that the article is written in American English.([1][2]) -Bbik 14:41, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
- ------------
- You are right on the "gypsies".
- <There was other evidence> -> Other evidence suggested / No good scholar would make such a mistake.
- Usually you can tell if a paragraph was written by a well-educated person or by a native speaker by the synonyms, the unusual phrases and the politically correct formulations of sentences. So, although a sentence might not contain direct errors, the vocabulary used and the variery of expressions make up for very good estimates on the person who wrote that.
- What about my other points? I respect you as a creditble source of information since you have lived through that war, but I can tell you that our coastline was completely ruined due to the mass placement of homeless people. Saying that the refugee crisis was "manufactured", which by the way its the first time I hear that word in this context, is not very encyclopedic when there are video footages of wafer-thin people populating the sands of our shores like ants.Outsid3r 16:51, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
- Hang on, did I somehow imply that I'm from the Balkans? If I did, it definitely was not intentional. The closest claim I have to that is distant relatives travelling through to escape other wars. As for the English usage, I'm going to move that discussion to your talk page, since it's not really related to the article. -Bbik 19:44, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
- What about my other points? I respect you as a creditble source of information since you have lived through that war, but I can tell you that our coastline was completely ruined due to the mass placement of homeless people. Saying that the refugee crisis was "manufactured", which by the way its the first time I hear that word in this context, is not very encyclopedic when there are video footages of wafer-thin people populating the sands of our shores like ants.Outsid3r 16:51, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
ANTI-NATO
The article is definitely ANTI-NATO. I am a Kosovo vet, part of the US Military stationed onboard USS Theodore Roosevelt. Being part of the peacekeeping force there, we discussed many different ways of ending this war quickly and decisively without causing civilian deaths. It is such a shame to see a supposedly neutral wiki post be so far off and aggressive against the people who were trying to stop the genocide. Neutrality of this article is definitely disputed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Markacutshall (talk • contribs) 05:03, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
- The fact is that there are here in Wikipedia many anti-American and/or pro-Serb-nationalist users that use the freedom to edit here to impose their POV despite of the rest of world media and evidences show.--189.62.206.7 (talk) 02:22, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
- i think that you are in a perfect position to talk about neutrality - neutrally, without any emotions -- you've seen it all through the screen of your radar.
- i mean, common serbs, give this guy some credit. he knows what he's talking about. he comes from a country with a well established |fight against genocide and terror. this guy is all about morality. 89.216.196.129 (talk) 09:15, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
- I'll make a trip to the 82nd Airborne Museum and take some photos of captured Serbian equipment to even all of the captured American equipment. Let's see how the boo-hoo brigade likes them.--Cuervo jones (talk) 05:04, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
Microwave oven as radar decoy
"Civilian microwave ovens were used as E-band radar decoys against NATO loiter munitions, which were also unable to detect obsolete soviet UHF radar stations in use by Yugoslav forces."
This seems highly unlikely - is there some kind of source for this, including the claim about the obsolete undetectable radar stations.
http://msgboard.snopes.com/message/ultimatebb.php?/ubb/get_topic/f/48/t/000208.html
Kind regards 158.169.9.14 (talk) 10:12, 19 January 2011 (UTC)
Casulties?
From what I've researched the death tolls were as follows
Yugoslav Soldiers killed During the Bombing by either Airstrikes or KLA - 1000ish Yugoslav Soldiers Killed pre Bombardment - 400ish Civilians (All Ethnicities) Killed by Bombing - 2500 KLAs, and civilians of all ethnicities killed (the vast majority KLA's) - 3100ish
1000 +400 +2500 +3100 _____ 7000
The total death toll is closer to 7000 then 10,000
John Gradwell (talk) 05:38, 26 March 2011 (UTC)
first paragraph dates
The term Kosovo War or Kosovo Conflict is used to describe two sequential, and at times parallel, armed conflicts in Kosovo. From early 1998[21] to 1999, the war was between the army and police of FR Yugoslavia, and the Kosovo Liberation Army. From March 24, 1999 to June 11, 1999,[22] NATO attacked Yugoslavia, and ethnic Albanian militants continued battles with Yugoslav forces, amidst a massive displacement of population in Kosovo estimated to be close to 1 million people.
I know there is a source, but can we get an additionaly source? The confusion I have stems from the fact that there is supposed to be a clash between the army of Yugoslavia and Kosovo more than half a decade after the collapse of Yugoslavia. This seems intuitively unlikely, and if it is accurate a second source should be easy to find -- maybe language that addresses this confusion would be in order. --— robbiemuffin page talk 13:23, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
- "Yugoslavia" in the late 1990s = Serbia and Montenegro. The Belgrade government retained the Yugoslavia name because they claimed to be the continuing state. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 20:51, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
Strobe Talbott
Strobe Talbott denies that he ever uttered the words the article attributes to him. This is actually Noam Chomsky's version of what Talbott said. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.96.193.85 (talk) 15:09, 29 May 2011 (UTC)
- This comment doesn't seem to refer to anything in the article, now or at the time the comment was written. 24.22.217.162 (talk) 02:59, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
File:990703m5696s0020vr.jpg Nominated for Deletion
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About russian volunteers
Please add information about russian volunteers which fought on the side of Serbia to the "Belligerents". Reference: http://otvaga2004.narod.ru/publ_w5/016_war.htm — Preceding unsigned comment added by Scythian23 (talk • contribs) 06:23, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
First action for Luftwaffe since WWII?
This article says that this conflict saw the first action for the German Lutfwaffe since WWII. However, it says the same thing in the article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Deliberate_Force which refers to a different conflict. Since ODF was earlier, if that article is correct, then this one is not. Nossac (talk) 16:41, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
russian president comments in the book
'thousands of war planes have a goal to destroy country and its infrastructure. [3] can you add this at appropriate place in the article? 24.148.34.157 (talk) 20:10, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Opening Para
The opening paragraph includes the parenthetical insertion: "(classified as terrorists)"
"there was an armed conflict initiated by the ethnic Albanian "Kosovo Liberation Army" (KLA), who sought independence (classified as terrorists), against the Serbian police and Yugoslav Military."
I understand that in the mind of a few this might be true but for the sake of more neutral writing that assertion should be moved elsewhere in the article and backed up with some source. As it stands it reads in a very biased manner as the opinion of one editor. Zedshort (talk) 20:08, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
Russian Reluctance
Can someone elatborate why Russia was against the NATO 1999 Intervention campaign? And how did this event changed Russo-American relations? - thanks 76.172.76.170 (talk) 01:07, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
This article is anything but neutral.
Don't even try to brainwash yourself otherwise. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.229.82.211 (talk) 20:28, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
Adding NATO flag like this 
or [[|]] without it being copyrighted
Am I allowed to add NATO flag in the {{flag| {{flagicon| way? It doesn't seem like it would be copyright. TsarSrbinu29 (talk) 16:49, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
Albanian insurgents?
The source states people and folksmen who have died in much earlier dates than 1999-1998 such as 1962 and forth. These "Insurgents" were also civilians. I will remove the number sentence it to unknown. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.104.81.165 (talk) 16:43, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
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Misleading, deceptive lead
The lead had two paragraphs. The second began, "NATO promoted the war as the first humanitarian war" and claimed a New York Times multimedia presentation. When one checks the source, one hears the narrator begin a new sentence at 0:27 of the Introduction with "[unintelligible, possibly "it was] described by some as the first humanitarian war". Therefore, both the words "NATO" and "promoted" are deceptions.
Overall, the lead was also deceptive by omission. Most prominently, the population displacement of 1 million people was in fact the Serbian government expulsion of the entire ethnic Albanian population. The deception by omission was continued by other vague, noninformative statements such as that a decade later, the war "continues to be controversial". The article is written from the viewpoint of the Serbian chauvinism that launched the wars of the 1990s. Recent editors include many IP addresses and an account defiantly named "Proud Serbian Chetnik". In the 1990s wars, the term "chetnik", originally used in World War II, was applied by Croats and Bosniaks as a deprecatory term for the Serbian paramilitary troops. Hurmata (talk) 12:57, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
I found this to be a confusing article to make use of - particularly in terms of getting a basic sense of what the war was about from the opening. The article does not open with an overview of who was involved, what was at stake, and what the consequences were. That would be useful for someone trying to get a quick basic sense of the topic. (Indeed, it does not even mention that the war led to Kosovo's de facto independence). Instead, it begins with two narrow paragraphs on the KLA, which would seem to fit better a later, narrative portion of the entry. (Especially since those paragraphs neither define the KLA, nor explain their relationship to the larger conflict between Kosovo and the Serbian government.)
Also, I would suggest that "NATO countries promoted the war in Kosovo as the first humanitarian war[67] based on short-term military reports and casualty reports that were later criticized as highly inaccurate.[68]" be broken up into two sentences. The first part would add a little context on why NATO considered this to be a humanitarian war. The 2nd part could start "However, the short-term military reports... that provided the basis for these claims was later..." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.9.147.0 (talk) 02:22, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
Page history for 'Template:Infobox Kosovo War'
- The following is the page history of Template:Infobox Kosovo War, which was substed into this article and deleted on 21 May 2012 as a result of this discussion. It serves as a necessary record for purposes of proper attribution. It may be archived at any time, but please do not modify it. -- Black Falcon (talk) 07:33, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
(cur | prev) 21:31, 17 May 2012 TsarSrbinu29(talk | contribs | block) . . (22,121 bytes) (+12) . . (rollback | undo)
(cur | prev) 00:01, 14 May 2012 Curb Chain(talk | contribs | block) . . (22,109 bytes) (+40) . . (Nominated for deletion; see Wikipedia:Templates for discussion#Template:Infobox Kosovo War) (undo)
(cur | prev) 20:41, 13 May 2012 Justice and Arbitration(talk | contribs | block) . . (22,069 bytes) (+316) . . (Undid revision 492396191 by 68.202.26.86 (talk)) (undo)
(cur | prev) 18:17, 13 May 2012 68.202.26.86(talk | block) . . (21,753 bytes) (-316) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 17:36, 13 May 2012 68.202.26.86(talk | block) . . (22,069 bytes) (-381) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 14:08, 13 May 2012 Justice and Arbitration(talk | contribs | block) . . (22,450 bytes) (+400) . . (Giving a compromise result in the template) (undo)
(cur | prev) 19:07, 11 May 2012 68.202.26.86(talk | block) . . (22,050 bytes) (-112) . . (NATO lost the war. Added three acceptable references.) (undo)
(cur | prev) 14:42, 10 May 2012 Justice and Arbitration(talk | contribs | block) . . (22,162 bytes) (+408) . . (NATO declares victory) (undo)
(cur | prev) 08:28, 7 May 2012 IJA(talk | contribs | block) . . (21,754 bytes) (-595) . . (Not a signle reference says it was a NATO failure. 7 is a question, 8 is an opinion and 9 states "Nato's bombing campaign had not been as successful as the Allies said it was" . This does not mean failure.) (undo)
(cur | prev) 13:29, 6 May 2012 Tpbradbury(talk | contribs | block) . . (22,349 bytes) (+364) . . (Filling in 4 references using Reflinks) (undo)
(cur | prev) 13:14, 6 May 2012 68.202.26.86(talk | block) . . (21,985 bytes) (+65) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 13:02, 6 May 2012 68.202.26.86(talk | block) . . (21,920 bytes) (-234) . . (Undid revision 490974597 by PRODUCER (talk) That counts. Also NATO's objective was to force Milosevic to surrender, but he didn't.) (undo)
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(cur | prev) 12:26, 6 May 2012 PRODUCER(talk | contribs | block) . . (22,223 bytes) (-93) . . (rv these are reader reactions) (undo)
(cur | prev) 12:09, 6 May 2012 68.202.26.86(talk | block) . . (22,316 bytes) (+93) . . (Well it doesn't say anything about victory of NATO in it either. I bet you do not even want to debate with me on this so whats the point of talking?) (undo)
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(cur | prev) 09:20, 6 May 2012 Justice and Arbitration(talk | contribs | block) . . (21,030 bytes) (+332) . . (Restoring the removed sourced material for victory claim. Also, the word „stalemate“ is nowhere to be found in the Chomsky link. Again, go to the talk page to discuss this.) (undo)
(cur | prev) 08:31, 6 May 2012 IJA(talk | contribs | block) . . (20,698 bytes) (-181) . . (Serbianna is not a reliable source, besides the link is broken anyway. "Ensues" is not the right word here.) (undo)
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(cur | prev) 13:31, 3 May 2012 Justice and Arbitration(talk | contribs | block) . . (21,207 bytes) (+399) . . (Undid revision 490373044 by 68.202.26.86 (talk) - No, you are just removing sourced material. I will leave it this way until you prove otherwise on the talk page.) (undo)
(cur | prev) 22:21, 2 May 2012 68.202.26.86(talk | block) . . (20,808 bytes) (-399) . . (Undid revision 490328500 by Justice and Arbitration (talk) NATO did not win. It was a Negotiated result. Also, NATO killed alot of civilians rather than Military.) (undo)
(cur | prev) 17:38, 2 May 2012 Justice and Arbitration(talk | contribs | block) . . (21,207 bytes) (+209) . . (Another source for the victory claim.) (undo)
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(cur | prev) 14:10, 2 May 2012 68.202.26.86(talk | block) . . (20,807 bytes) (-191) . . (It was not a NATO victory. Despite the fact that Yugoslav authorities were brought into the Kumanovo Treaty, the war was not a NATO Victory.) (undo)
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(cur | prev) 21:04, 28 March 2012 77.1.82.194(talk | block) . . (18,113 bytes) (-161) . . (Supreme Commander of the Bundeswehr is the Minister of Defence (Art 65 GG) NEVER the Bundespräsident) (undo)
(cur | prev) 02:48, 25 March 2012 68.202.26.86(talk | block) . . (18,274 bytes) (+79) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 01:55, 24 March 2012 68.202.26.86(talk | block) . . (18,195 bytes) (-39) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 01:50, 24 March 2012 68.202.26.86(talk | block) . . (18,234 bytes) (+58) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 01:48, 24 March 2012 68.202.26.86(talk | block) . . (18,176 bytes) (+106) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 02:06, 23 March 2012 68.202.26.86(talk | block) . . (18,070 bytes) (-14) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 01:41, 22 March 2012 Dripipipi(talk | contribs | block) . . (18,084 bytes) (+102) . . (faulty reference refers to total number, not civilians) (undo)
(cur | prev) 22:58, 21 March 2012 68.202.26.86(talk | block) . . (17,982 bytes) (+35) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 22:04, 18 March 2012 68.202.26.86(talk | block) . . (17,947 bytes) (+121) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 18:37, 18 March 2012 68.202.26.86(talk | block) . . (17,826 bytes) (-6) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 18:36, 18 March 2012 68.202.26.86(talk | block) . . (17,832 bytes) (+152) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 17:49, 15 March 2012 68.202.26.86(talk | block) . . (17,680 bytes) (-77) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 17:26, 15 March 2012 68.202.26.86(talk | block) . . (17,757 bytes) (+152) . . (Added Commander and Ref) (undo)
(cur | prev) 17:16, 15 March 2012 68.202.26.86(talk | block) . . (17,605 bytes) (+99) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 20:40, 8 March 2012 68.202.26.86(talk | block) . . (17,506 bytes) (-90) . . (Undid revision 480889717 by 68.202.26.86 (talk)) (undo)
(cur | prev) 20:39, 8 March 2012 68.202.26.86(talk | block) . . (17,596 bytes) (+90) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 14:30, 4 March 2012 68.202.26.86(talk | block) . . (17,506 bytes) (+20) . . (undo)
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(cur | prev) 14:11, 4 March 2012 68.202.26.86(talk | block) . . (17,485 bytes) (+136) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 14:09, 4 March 2012 68.202.26.86(talk | block) . . (17,349 bytes) (+98) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 21:38, 28 February 2012 Frietjes(talk | contribs | block) . . (17,251 bytes) (+723) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 20:48, 28 February 2012 68.202.26.86(talk | block) . . (16,528 bytes) (+89) . . (Added Refs, also Poland and Hungary didn't participate, I found out) (undo)
(cur | prev) 02:23, 22 February 2012 TsarSrbinu29(talk | contribs | block) . . (16,439 bytes) (+3) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 02:23, 22 February 2012 TsarSrbinu29(talk | contribs | block) . . (16,436 bytes) (+10) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 02:22, 22 February 2012 TsarSrbinu29(talk | contribs | block) . . (16,426 bytes) (+24) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 02:19, 22 February 2012 TsarSrbinu29(talk | contribs | block) . . (16,402 bytes) (-18) . . (Iceland has no standing army, so therefore, it did not participate in conflict) (undo)
(cur | prev) 21:02, 20 February 2012 68.202.26.86(talk | block) . . (16,420 bytes) (-4) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 21:01, 20 February 2012 68.202.26.86(talk | block) . . (16,424 bytes) (-403) . . (undo)
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(cur | prev) 20:18, 20 February 2012 68.202.26.86(talk | block) . . (16,831 bytes) (0) . . (Re corrected Flag mistake for 3 Captured soldiers) (undo)
(cur | prev) 20:17, 20 February 2012 68.202.26.86(talk | block) . . (16,831 bytes) (+656) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 19:54, 20 February 2012 68.202.26.86(talk | block) . . (16,175 bytes) (-286) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 19:50, 20 February 2012 68.202.26.86(talk | block) . . (16,461 bytes) (+2) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 19:49, 20 February 2012 68.202.26.86(talk | block) . . (16,459 bytes) (-93) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 19:47, 20 February 2012 68.202.26.86(talk | block) . . (16,552 bytes) (+894) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 19:27, 20 February 2012 68.202.26.86(talk | block) . . (15,658 bytes) (+514) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 18:51, 20 February 2012 68.202.26.86(talk | block) . . (15,144 bytes) (-4) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 18:24, 20 February 2012 68.202.26.86(talk | block) . . (15,148 bytes) (0) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 18:22, 20 February 2012 68.202.26.86(talk | block) . . (15,148 bytes) (+175) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 18:12, 20 February 2012 Frietjes(talk | contribs | block) . . (14,973 bytes) (+2,716) . . (clean up references using WP:REFLINKS) (undo)
(cur | prev) 18:08, 20 February 2012 Frietjes(talk | contribs | block) m . . (12,257 bytes) (-470) . . (not sure about the last set of edits, but clean up br and small tags) (undo)
(cur | prev) 18:04, 20 February 2012 68.202.26.86(talk | block) . . (12,727 bytes) (-42) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 18:03, 20 February 2012 68.202.26.86(talk | block) . . (12,769 bytes) (+99) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 17:57, 20 February 2012 68.202.26.86(talk | block) . . (12,670 bytes) (+1) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 17:56, 20 February 2012 68.202.26.86(talk | block) . . (12,669 bytes) (-11) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 02:19, 20 February 2012 Night of the Big Wind(talk | contribs | block) . . (12,680 bytes) (+29) . . (-disambig) (undo)
(cur | prev) 17:49, 18 February 2012 68.202.26.86(talk | block) . . (12,651 bytes) (+517) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 17:40, 18 February 2012 68.202.26.86(talk | block) . . (12,134 bytes) (+106) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 17:37, 18 February 2012 68.202.26.86(talk | block) . . (12,028 bytes) (+410) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 14:55, 18 February 2012 Frietjes(talk | contribs | block) . . (11,618 bytes) (-65) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 02:09, 18 February 2012 68.202.26.86(talk | block) . . (11,683 bytes) (+90) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 19:51, 11 February 2012 68.202.26.86(talk | block) . . (11,593 bytes) (0) . . (Changed Admiral to Air Force Commander as there was a mix up) (undo)
(cur | prev) 19:50, 11 February 2012 68.202.26.86(talk | block) . . (11,593 bytes) (+173) . . (Added New UK Commander and Ref) (undo)
(cur | prev) 10:22, 9 February 2012 Night of the Big Wind(talk | contribs | block) m . . (11,420 bytes) (+117) . . (WPCleaner (v1.10) Repaired link to disambiguation page - (You can help) - FARK) (undo)
(cur | prev) 00:20, 9 February 2012 68.202.26.86(talk | block) . . (11,303 bytes) (+119) . . (Changed KLA to UÇK and ARFK to FARK for better specifications.) (undo)
(cur | prev) 00:18, 9 February 2012 68.202.26.86(talk | block) . . (11,184 bytes) (-5) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 00:18, 9 February 2012 68.202.26.86(talk | block) . . (11,189 bytes) (+7) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 23:59, 5 February 2012 68.202.26.86(talk | block) . . (11,182 bytes) (+195) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 17:35, 4 February 2012 68.202.26.86(talk | block) . . (10,987 bytes) (-198) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 17:34, 4 February 2012 68.202.26.86(talk | block) . . (11,185 bytes) (-1) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 17:34, 4 February 2012 68.202.26.86(talk | block) . . (11,186 bytes) (-147) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 17:31, 4 February 2012 68.202.26.86(talk | block) . . (11,333 bytes) (0) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 17:30, 4 February 2012 68.202.26.86(talk | block) . . (11,333 bytes) (-17) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 17:30, 4 February 2012 68.202.26.86(talk | block) . . (11,350 bytes) (-55) . . (Undid revision 474985898 by 68.202.26.86 (talk Fixed it I believe) (undo)
(cur | prev) 17:28, 4 February 2012 68.202.26.86(talk | block) . . (11,405 bytes) (+4) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 17:27, 4 February 2012 68.202.26.86(talk | block) . . (11,401 bytes) (+532) . . (Added newer commanders with refs, I also did use {{flag/{flagicon| use of putting NATO flag in, I did not use File: but if it is still restricted to use the {{flag|/{{flagicon| style, please do not revert, but at least correct it.) (undo)
(cur | prev) 02:49, 4 February 2012 68.202.26.86(talk | block) . . (10,869 bytes) (+517) . . (Added three commanders with refs and rearranged the two main commanders Clark and Solana to the top part of the NATO Commanders) (undo)
(cur | prev) 02:25, 4 February 2012 68.202.26.86(talk | block) . . (10,352 bytes) (+3) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 02:11, 4 February 2012 TsarSrbinu29(talk | contribs | block) . . (10,349 bytes) (+19) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 02:10, 4 February 2012 TsarSrbinu29(talk | contribs | block) . . (10,330 bytes) (-106) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 02:03, 4 February 2012 TsarSrbinu29(talk | contribs | block) . . (10,436 bytes) (+176) . . (Added AFRK Commander Ahmed Krasniqi, and added a Reference) (undo)
(cur | prev) 03:07, 3 February 2012 TsarSrbinu29(talk | contribs | block) . . (10,260 bytes) (+3) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 02:09, 2 February 2012 68.202.26.86(talk | block) . . (10,257 bytes) (+270) . . (Added another UCK Commander, and added ref.) (undo)
(cur | prev) 21:41, 30 January 2012 68.202.26.86(talk | block) . . (9,987 bytes) (+26) . . (The Aircraft that's taking off is actually a Strike Eagle) (undo)
(cur | prev) 10:11, 30 January 2012 Night of the Big Wind(talk | contribs | block) m . . (9,961 bytes) (-2) . . (WPCleaner (v1.09) typo) (undo)
(cur | prev) 10:10, 30 January 2012 Night of the Big Wind(talk | contribs | block) m . . (9,963 bytes) (0) . . (WPCleaner (v1.09) wikignoming) (undo)
(cur | prev) 10:09, 30 January 2012 Night of the Big Wind(talk | contribs | block) m . . (9,963 bytes) (+5) . . (WPCleaner (v1.09) Repaired link to disambiguation page - (You can help) - Yugo / Fixed using WP:WCW - Break in list - Template parameter with problem) (undo)
(cur | prev) 03:15, 30 January 2012 68.202.26.86(talk | block) . . (9,958 bytes) (-45) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 02:56, 30 January 2012 68.202.26.86(talk | block) . . (10,003 bytes) (+19) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 02:55, 30 January 2012 68.202.26.86(talk | block) . . (9,984 bytes) (+131) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 19:32, 29 January 2012 TsarSrbinu29(talk | contribs | block) . . (9,853 bytes) (0) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 19:27, 29 January 2012 TsarSrbinu29(talk | contribs | block) . . (9,853 bytes) (+1) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 19:26, 29 January 2012 TsarSrbinu29(talk | contribs | block) . . (9,852 bytes) (+9) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 19:23, 29 January 2012 TsarSrbinu29(talk | contribs | block) . . (9,843 bytes) (+558) . . (Added more refs; Also re-added correct caption of the collage picture) (undo)
(cur | prev) 19:16, 29 January 2012 TsarSrbinu29(talk | contribs | block) . . (9,285 bytes) (-1) . . (Corrected Spelling of the Commander Bozidar Delić) (undo)
(cur | prev) 19:08, 29 January 2012 TsarSrbinu29(talk | contribs | block) . . (9,286 bytes) (+4) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 19:07, 29 January 2012 TsarSrbinu29(talk | contribs | block) . . (9,282 bytes) (+1) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 19:06, 29 January 2012 TsarSrbinu29(talk | contribs | block) . . (9,281 bytes) (-3) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 19:06, 29 January 2012 TsarSrbinu29(talk | contribs | block) . . (9,284 bytes) (+219) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 19:02, 29 January 2012 TsarSrbinu29(talk | contribs | block) . . (9,065 bytes) (+19) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 19:01, 29 January 2012 TsarSrbinu29(talk | contribs | block) . . (9,046 bytes) (+1,019) . . (Added more refs to my editing. ~~~~) (undo)
(cur | prev) 18:08, 29 January 2012 Denniss(talk | contribs | block) . . (8,027 bytes) (-1,289) . . (Reverted to revision 469776582 by Denniss. (TW)) (undo)
(cur | prev) 17:39, 29 January 2012 68.202.26.86(talk | block) . . (9,316 bytes) (-1) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 15:30, 29 January 2012 Night of the Big Wind(talk | contribs | block) m . . (9,317 bytes) (+8) . . (WPCleaner (v1.09) Repaired link to disambiguation page - (You can help) - Yugo / Fixed using WP:WCW - Break in list) (undo)
(cur | prev) 15:27, 29 January 2012 Night of the Big Wind(talk | contribs | block) m . . (9,309 bytes) (+1) . . (WPCleaner (v1.09) Fixed using WP:WCW - Square brackets not correct begin - Template parameter with problem) (undo)
(cur | prev) 07:27, 29 January 2012 TsarSrbinu29(talk | contribs | block) . . (9,308 bytes) (+147) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 07:23, 29 January 2012 TsarSrbinu29(talk | contribs | block) . . (9,161 bytes) (+129) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 07:15, 29 January 2012 TsarSrbinu29(talk | contribs | block) . . (9,032 bytes) (-28) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 07:02, 29 January 2012 TsarSrbinu29(talk | contribs | block) . . (9,060 bytes) (+10) . . (Undid revision 473816041 by TsarSrbinu29 (talk)) (undo)
(cur | prev) 07:02, 29 January 2012 TsarSrbinu29(talk | contribs | block) . . (9,050 bytes) (+18) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 07:00, 29 January 2012 TsarSrbinu29(talk | contribs | block) . . (9,032 bytes) (-1) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 07:00, 29 January 2012 TsarSrbinu29(talk | contribs | block) . . (9,033 bytes) (+131) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 06:57, 29 January 2012 TsarSrbinu29(talk | contribs | block) . . (8,902 bytes) (+3) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 06:56, 29 January 2012 TsarSrbinu29(talk | contribs | block) . . (8,899 bytes) (+3) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 06:56, 29 January 2012 TsarSrbinu29(talk | contribs | block) . . (8,896 bytes) (+277) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 06:43, 29 January 2012 TsarSrbinu29(talk | contribs | block) . . (8,619 bytes) (+1) . . (undo)
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(cur | prev) 05:55, 29 January 2012 TsarSrbinu29(talk | contribs | block) . . (8,717 bytes) (+1) . . (undo)
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(cur | prev) 04:11, 29 January 2012 TsarSrbinu29(talk | contribs | block) . . (8,715 bytes) (-2) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 04:11, 29 January 2012 TsarSrbinu29(talk | contribs | block) . . (8,717 bytes) (+38) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 04:10, 29 January 2012 TsarSrbinu29(talk | contribs | block) . . (8,679 bytes) (-2) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 04:10, 29 January 2012 TsarSrbinu29(talk | contribs | block) . . (8,681 bytes) (+9) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 04:09, 29 January 2012 TsarSrbinu29(talk | contribs | block) . . (8,672 bytes) (+20) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 04:08, 29 January 2012 TsarSrbinu29(talk | contribs | block) . . (8,652 bytes) (-9) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 04:06, 29 January 2012 TsarSrbinu29(talk | contribs | block) . . (8,661 bytes) (-105) . . (Undid revision 473799802 by TsarSrbinu29 (talk) Re-Fixing template infobox) (undo)
(cur | prev) 04:05, 29 January 2012 TsarSrbinu29(talk | contribs | block) . . (8,766 bytes) (+105) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 03:58, 29 January 2012 TsarSrbinu29(talk | contribs | block) . . (8,661 bytes) (+99) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 03:49, 29 January 2012 TsarSrbinu29(talk | contribs | block) . . (8,562 bytes) (-66) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 03:49, 29 January 2012 TsarSrbinu29(talk | contribs | block) . . (8,628 bytes) (+84) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 03:19, 29 January 2012 TsarSrbinu29(talk | contribs | block) . . (8,544 bytes) (-4) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 03:19, 29 January 2012 TsarSrbinu29(talk | contribs | block) . . (8,548 bytes) (+7) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 16:45, 28 January 2012 TsarSrbinu29(talk | contribs | block) . . (8,541 bytes) (+271) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 01:21, 28 January 2012 68.202.26.86(talk | block) . . (8,270 bytes) (+243) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 20:10, 5 January 2012 Denniss(talk | contribs | block) . . (8,027 bytes) (-74) . . (Undid revision 469762674 by Dripipipi (talk)) (undo)
(cur | prev) 18:58, 5 January 2012 Dripipipi(talk | contribs | block) . . (8,101 bytes) (+74) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 13:08, 10 November 2011 Denniss(talk | contribs | block) . . (8,027 bytes) (+9) . . (Reverted to revision 443690995 by Nirvana77. (TW)) (undo)
(cur | prev) 10:12, 10 November 2011 AnomieBOT(talk | contribs | block) m . . (8,018 bytes) (+19) . . ([BRFA55] Dating maintenance tags: {{Cn}}) (undo)
(cur | prev) 09:13, 10 November 2011 92.32.39.150(talk | block) . . (7,999 bytes) (-28) . . (adding nocr img, fixes) (undo)
(cur | prev) 15:09, 8 August 2011 Nirvana77(talk | contribs | block) . . (8,027 bytes) (+727) . . (a) Obviously not NPOV. b) Figures discussed before, look in Kosovo War archive. c) If you have a problem with the current figures, please take it up on talk BEFORE making these kinds of significant changes) (undo)
(cur | prev) 05:32, 3 August 2011 CradleofTruth(talk | contribs | block) . . (7,300 bytes) (-727) . . (Undid revision 441705290 by Denniss (talk) Updated deaths to more reliable sources instead of wartime ones, Please feel free to discuss on talk) (undo)
(cur | prev) 13:34, 27 July 2011 Denniss(talk | contribs | block) . . (8,027 bytes) (+727) . . (Undid revision 441254568 by CradleofTruth (talk)) (undo)
(cur | prev) 23:19, 24 July 2011 CradleofTruth(talk | contribs | block) . . (7,300 bytes) (-727) . . (Undid revision 441242702 by Nirvana77 (talk) Previous Version uses questionable, and wartime sources, amongst mine is a latter revision of one of the previous ones, discuss on talk page) (undo)
(cur | prev) 21:51, 24 July 2011 Nirvana77(talk | contribs | block) . . (8,027 bytes) (+727) . . (Undid revision 440806268 by CradleofTruth (talk)) (undo)
(cur | prev) 09:55, 22 July 2011 CradleofTruth(talk | contribs | block) . . (7,300 bytes) (-727) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 04:48, 6 July 2011 Buttons(talk | contribs | block) . . (8,027 bytes) (-618) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 23:55, 3 June 2011 RjwilmsiBot(talk | contribs | block) m . . (8,645 bytes) (+51) . . (CiteCompletion, dates: 1, works/pubs: 1, authors: 1, titles: 1, using AWB (7751)) (undo)
(cur | prev) 21:04, 1 June 2011 Frietjes(talk | contribs | block) m . . (8,594 bytes) (-17) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 18:30, 31 May 2011 93.217.155.153(talk | block) . . (8,611 bytes) (-187) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 16:51, 20 May 2011 92.239.9.112(talk | block) . . (8,798 bytes) (0) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 00:32, 19 May 2011 92.239.9.112(talk | block) . . (8,798 bytes) (-90) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 11:16, 8 May 2011 Green Giant(talk | contribs | block) . . (8,888 bytes) (-32) . . (→References: absurd location of references section) (undo)
(cur | prev) 18:15, 6 May 2011 Frietjes(talk | contribs | block) . . (8,920 bytes) (+774) . . (reflinks: Bot: Converting bare references, using ref names to avoid duplicates, see FAQ) (undo)
(cur | prev) 18:34, 24 April 2011 John(talk | contribs | block) . . (8,146 bytes) (-1) . . (fmt) (undo)
(cur | prev) 14:47, 11 April 2011 Mikrobølgeovn(talk | contribs | block) . . (8,147 bytes) (+6) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 14:47, 11 April 2011 Mikrobølgeovn(talk | contribs | block) . . (8,141 bytes) (+136) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 19:29, 4 April 2011 Vinie007(talk | contribs | block) . . (8,005 bytes) (+39) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 17:38, 9 March 2011 92.239.9.112(talk | block) . . (7,966 bytes) (-97) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 17:02, 11 February 2011 IJA(talk | contribs | block) m . . (8,063 bytes) (-4) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 13:50, 17 January 2011 Vinie007(talk | contribs | block) . . (8,067 bytes) (-40) . . (limted involment isn't true, there where heavy gun fights) (undo)
(cur | prev) 06:09, 13 January 2011 StAnselm(talk | contribs | block) . . (8,107 bytes) (+46) . . (Disambiguated: KLA → Kosovo Liberation Army (2)) (undo)
(cur | prev) 01:46, 21 November 2010 DIREKTOR(talk | contribs | block) . . (8,061 bytes) (+7) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 01:46, 21 November 2010 DIREKTOR(talk | contribs | block) . . (8,054 bytes) (+34) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 01:45, 21 November 2010 DIREKTOR(talk | contribs | block) . . (8,020 bytes) (-27) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 16:12, 27 October 2010 92.239.9.112(talk | block) . . (8,047 bytes) (+10) . . (undo)
(cur | prev) 15:47, 29 September 2010 Brutaldeluxe(talk | contribs | block) . . (8,037 bytes) (-84) . . (removed controversial/POV use of Albanian national flag for non-citizens and organisations not based in that country, see MOS:FLAG) (undo)
(cur | prev) 01:18, 23 September 2010 Andrwsc(talk | contribs | block) . . (8,121 bytes) (-515) . . (update flag template usage using AWB) (undo)
(cur | prev) 17:07, 21 September 2010 Estlandia(talk | contribs | block) . . (8,636 bytes) (+193) . . (rv sock puppeteer's edit with misleading edit summary. there's nothing wrong with listing SERBIA in particular (as it was THE entity that was active in that conflict).) (undo)
(cur | prev) 16:54, 21 September 2010 92.225.140.61(talk | block) . . (8,443 bytes) (-193) . . (Undid revision 386079475 by Miacek (talk) removed non-sovereign entities) (undo)
(cur | prev) 10:27, 21 September 2010 Estlandia(talk | contribs | block) . . (8,636 bytes) (+8) . . (rmv until the issue is clarified/sources for the contrary predsented. officially that entity was neutral and was not an active participant side by side with Serbia.) (undo)
(cur | prev) 07:35, 21 September 2010 SmackBot(talk | contribs | block) m . . (8,628 bytes) (+54) . . (Date maintenance tags and general fixes: build 542:) (undo)
(cur | prev) 07:34, 21 September 2010 Rich Farmbrough(talk | contribs | block) . . (8,574 bytes) (0) . . (undo)
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(cur | prev) 10:24, 14 September 2010 Estlandia(talk | contribs | block) . . (8,574 bytes) (+8) . . (who considered Montenegro as combatant? rather dubious) (undo)
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(cur | prev) 15:06, 27 June 2009 DIREKTOR(talk | contribs | block) . . (5,494 bytes) (+5,494) . . (←Created page with '{{Infobox Military Conflict | conflict = Kosovo War | partof = the Yugoslav wars | image = 300px | caption = '...')
bias
So, this person below me is crazy. Also, come on, there is a ludicrous critical bias here. There is a whole section on critiques of the war separate from the pro and con discussion above it. Where is Ignatieff's defense, or Kouchner, or Paul Berman, all liberals defending the war, as opposed to the leftists opposed to pseudo-imperialism but not Serbian aggression. Come on now. And yes this can sound biased...because it is in the talk page, why does the actual article have such a bias? Disgusting. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.225.80.171 (talk) 04:28, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
Neutral point of view?
Well I am just surprised how this article is mostly resided in the side of the Serbian military and anti-NATO.To be honest what would happen if NATO had not acted? Any idea? Like Hitler in WW2 killed thousands of innocent jewish and other countries people Milosevic would do the same and then people would say NATO did not foresee the problematic case. I am not anti-serbian but I am for the basic right of the humans to live. 82.114.81.146 17:16, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
There was no ethnic cleansing of Albanians. Every Albanian that was killed by Serbians was an UCK member and it was confirmed by Serbs and Albanian democrats.
A read of Noel Malcolm's book, A Short History of Kosovo, challenges many points made on this page. While true neutrality on any topic is difficult to obtain, particularly war, this article is clearly slanted towards one side - Serbian - at the expense of Albanian experience. The above comment that all Albanians killed by Serbs were UCK defies basic common sense and math. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.114.71.206 (talk) 14:20, 25 March 2012 (UTC)
- Comparing Milosevic to Hitler is completely stupid and makes no sense whatsoever.
Just a reminder. Hitler's army was attacking many countries and they killed many
people for no apparent reason(world dominance ?!)
On the other hand, Milosevic has ordered the army to defend a part of Serbia's own
territory! I mean, do you people get that? Kosovo was, is and will be part of
Serbia and as such Serbia has/had the rights to defend it by all means necessary. Just
like US, Germany or any other legitimate country in the world has the right to protect
its citizens on their own territory.
If NATO didn't intervene, today we would have peace in Kosovo and that story would have
been finished ages ago and consequences would have been much less then they are now in
Kosovo or like in Iraq, Afghanistan...etc where NATO and US led forces tried to "restore"
peace. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.228.74.12 (talk) 11:02, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
- Nazis did a genocide, so did Serbs. There, I compared Milosevic to Hitler; it wasn't so hard, was it? --Sigmundur (talk) 06:36, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
At least the article is not NPOV so please do it so or I think the article should be closed and be given access only to members to be changed.
This article is neither neutral nor correct, it focuses on pointing out KLA acts and makes no mention of the much more numerous atrocities and massacres by the Serbian military. I'm truly shocked to see this article here, it needs to be changed. I'm sure the writer of this article is either Russian or Serbian. This piece of propaganda needs a desperate re-write. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.88.253.125 (talk) 19:12, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
As i have read the article the intend is clearly anti-NATO and anti-KOSOVO If you would read it you would understand as the Yugoslav forces were the peacekeepers and NATO started the war.I will clean some some content now.82.114.81.146 18:50, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
Please NEVER compare what happened in the Holocaust with Kosovo- it is an extremely tenuous subject with Serbs. 1.5 million Serbs were murdered by Nazis and Croatian Ustashe during WWII. To compare losses of under 10,000 in an internal insurgency in Kosovo to the Holocaust is ridiculous. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.227.69.56 (talk) 21:09, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
- Nazis did a genocide, so did Serbs. There, I compared Milosevic to Hitler; a Serb got hurt? My condolences. So you're saying it's ok if Serbs kill people, since Nazis did something horrible to them 60 years ago? Boo-hoo. Also, everything you argue about the substance here is irrelevant. Wikipedia is no arbitrator of anything; Wikipedia is not a discussion forum or a war tribunal. Take your forum discussion elsewhere, and provide links to reliable sources. I don't care if a subject is "tenuous", I only care to see verified and data-backed information. I think the article is excellent the way it is, and arguing over minor details and numbers and calling the whole article POV is just ridiculous. Get over yourselves. --Sigmundur (talk) 06:44, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
It was over 10,000, and would have been more had NATO not stopped Serbia. Also Kosovo was inhabited by Albanians long before Serbs had invaded the balkans in the 7th century, and had been called Dardania originally. --Vepton (talk) 02:28, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
- I think that the comments above were written by people who were parts of the two opposing sides in the conflict, so their opinions have a risk to be biased. I am an editor who was not participating in any way and have had mixed attitudes during the conflict throughout the years. I have reviewed the article and it looks OK. The discussion about the neutral point of view has largely disappeared so I am going to remove the POV label. Incidentally, for the NATO advocate above, Wikipedia is an encyclopedia and it is certainly not a room for wild speculations what would have happened if Serbia were not bombed, especially not speculations that would use highly inaccurate and emotionally loaded analogies. Wikipedia is focusing on facts, not on wild speculations about alternative worlds. The facts are described in the article rather well. --Lumidek (talk) 20:02, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
It is extremely hard/impossible to have a neutral view on a war especially on a website mostly edited by Americans (myself included). The reason is because of the destructive nature of war and that usually the side that wins is the one with the least damage to its infrastructure. If a country is damaged by a war and its citizens are angry, you are not going to get a neutral viewpoint from their mouths. Same goes for the victors, they are not going to admit their losses were due to inferior/ flawed technology. WikiWiznerd (talk) 00:10, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
The article is ok the way it is. It's impossible to make it neutral as both side will say it's not if they don't like a point. The idea that this article leans towards the Serbian side might be because Americans sets the standards... 216.165.216.34 (talk) 23:34, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
- Agree. I think the article is stellar by any Wikipedia standard, at least among war-related articles. I suggest it get write-protection from unregistered editors and remove all the silly POV labels, maybe add cn-tags. Whining level on this talk page is way too low to justify littering a perfectly fine article like that. Whoever butthurt Serbs or US patriots could spend their time better finding sources to back their opinions instead of whining here, and also comb away dead links and misquoted sources. --Sigmundur (talk) 06:52, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
civilian kills (moved from article)
Those are all fucking lies , Albanians started pushing Serbs north and getting themselves teritory , Serbs couldnt take that anymore becouse Albanians got aggresive and starter killing Serbs , so Serbs yelled PAYBACK TIME and fucking killed every Albanian that came in theyre way . —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.101.20.1 (talk • contribs) 09:08, 30 July 2010
-- stop ranting and add ref-tags to reliable sources instead. --Sigmundur (talk) 06:54, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
10,000 Yugoslav troop losses.
It was ruled out false, I did not say it was too high. I said that it was ruled out false and the real number of troops killed was 1,031. 142.197.18.67 (talk) 14:34, 15 June 2012 (UTC) 1,031 figure are serb figures so they are probs more unreliable and regardless of whether there is doubt that 5,000 died, this figure is a NATO estimate and should remain regardless of wether Serbia disagrees. On wikepedia conflict pages you are allowed to add casualty figure claims made by either participating belligerent even if it seems too low or too high. I know some people disagree with this figure that why it is clearly stated that they are NATO estimates. Stop deleting these figures and edit warring. They should remain. Stumink
- Any new reports of the casualties of Yugoslav soldiers lately? The 5,000 dead figure seems indeed overblown.--Justice and Arbitration (talk) 16:04, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
Will people stop getting rid of NATO estimate. These figures were allowed to stay a while back after much discussion. The current figures are Serbian figures and both sides claims should be mentioned. There may be doubt in the NATO estimates but there is also doubt in Serbia's figures. Those figures are probably more biased. Who has proven these figures wrong. Lancet remains on Iraq war page and that has been virtually proven wrong. On virtually every Korean war or Vietnam war battle page there are casualty claims from the communist side which more often than not provably wrong but remain as there claim. Regardless of whether there is doubt that 5,000 died, this figure is a NATO estimate and should remain regardless of whether people disagree. Claims by either side should remain. On wikepedia when one belligerent has casualty claims, no matter how disputed, you can add them as long as you state they are claims of that side. Let people decide what figure to believe. What is wrong with having official NATO estimates. They are one side in the conflict and there claim is just a valid as Serbia's. Don't start edit warring. Consensus was to have them. No harm in having them. How is adding NATO estimates biased? Are having Serbian figures not biased then? Stumink (talk)
They have been proven false. There is a documentary, but I can't put it as a source since I can only find it on Youtube and no where else. It's called Lessons of Kosovo and it shows that NATO did not inflict many casualties as it said it did. The Yugoslav troops suffered around 1,000 instead of 5,000 or more. I see no use of putting NATO estimates in when they were proven false. What you put in was the estimate of civilian casualties and not military I believe.70.118.102.247 (talk) 14:02, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
Broken Link(s)
I noticed footnote #89 leads to a page not found. I believe this is the correct document: http://balkania.tripod.com/resources/history/migrations/index.html Biccat (talk) 15:59, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
Biased article
I cannot believe my eyes. Serbia said it was a victory? They were militarily defeated by the KLA, forced out of the republic and Kosovo has gone independent. But why is it said that NATO was on the Albanian side? Just who says? NATO consisted of 19 countries in 1999 and apart from Greece who has anti-Albanian sentiments, the rest acted 1000000% neutrally. They went in to stop the annihalation of the entire Kosovar Albanian race. were the international community supposed to sit back and twiddle their thums like they did in Bosnia? The aggresor was the Serb police and army and the victims were the Albanian people who made up close to 100% of the republic. In Libiya recently, NATO didn't take another person's side, it was on the side of the Libiyan people who were sick after 42 years of the totalitarian rule of Colonel Gaddafi. And now they are watching closely at Syria, they are with the innocent people, not any army. If it had been the other way round, if Kosovars were ethnicly cleansing and inflicting genoide among the Kosovar Serb population, then NATO would have stepped in against the Albanians to defend innocent Serbs. In World War II, the Allied forces fought on the side of Serbs against Albanians and Croats because everyone knows what the Fascist collaborators did and their wholesale destruction of millions of Jews. After the Balkan Wars 1912-13, the west favoured the Serbs then too when they placed Kosovo in Serbia despite it being part of Albania's territory since 1912. But after almost a century of tormenting the local majority, trying to wipe them out and annex them into an artificial "Serb" state, the west had finally had enough and realised that a country needs to be with it's majority if the will of the people is to be secured. Kthimi në Shqipëri (talk) 10:02, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
- Many articles concerning Kosovo and the Yugoslav Wars in English-language Wikipedia are tainted with Serb propaganda of (self)victimization and negationism (“Srebrenica Massacre never happened”, “Arkan and Mladic are heroes not criminals”, etc.), that's a fact. But the other fact is that Milosevic LOST the Kosovo War, despite internal propaganda claims of “victory” — as the same way that happened with Saddam Hussein claiming victory on Iraqi state media after effectivelly LOSING the Gulf War.
- As the same way that Iraqi troops were evacuated from Kuwait territory with the help of American and Western European armed forces, Serbian troops had to evacuate Kosovo with American and West European armed forces occupying their place in Kosovo. NATO official basic objectives of the 1999 intervention in Yugoslavia relating to Kosovo were fully achieved, as the same way that the objectives of the American-led coalition in Iraq and Kuwait in 1991.
- To say that Serbia WON the Kosovo War is *a little bit too much* of Serbian propaganda in this article!--201.81.239.44 (talk) 17:44, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
- Ignoring the classical Serbo-Albanian victimization complex and mythomania and getting straight to the point: Maybe victory a bit of an exaggerated term but given that during the Rambouillet NATO actually wanted to have military access in all of FRY and a referendum in Kosovo after three years, plus the light military damage the VJ and its associated forces suffered the outcome of the Kumanovo Treaty was far more favourable than what was demanded on Rambouillet. Personally I'd call it a de jure draw and de facto long term NATO victory. And sorry, but the KLA didn't militarily defeat anyone just as the Iraqi insurgents lost almost every fight against the Coalition forces. Magnojević (talk)
Structure of Article
The structure of this article is very odd, although there is much useful information in it (as well, of course, as some bits which I would consider not NPOV). But surely most of this information belongs in other articles and not here.
To most people outside Kosovo or Serbia "the Kosovo War" means, in effect, the period of the NATO bombing campaign, although I think that few would argue that the period of internal conflict immediately preceding this should not also be included. But this internal conflict only became at all intense following the attack on the Jashari family compound in 1998; prior to this, KLA actions were at a low level of intensity compared (for example) with IRA activity in the 1970s-1980s or ETA activities in Spain in the 1980s-1990s, neither of which are generally regarded as a war.
But in this article, after the lead, we get 250 lines of Kosovo's history from 1945 to 1996, when the first KLA attack took place. There are many fewer lines detailing the actual (international) war. Nowhere else, I think, in Wikipedia is a war given more lines than its origins. I concede, of course, that one should not have an article on a war without some treatment of its origins. I also concede that much of the detailed information is worth keeping in Wikipedia, and putting it in the "History of Kosovo" article would make that unwieldy and unbalanced in chronological terms. The answer seems to me to be to give a fairly drastically shortened summary of the 1945-1998 events, and put the current material in a separate article on the "Origins of the Kosovo War".
This would allow an expansion of the events of the (international) conflict, which seem to me much more interesting than they appear in this article (and Wesley Clarke's book "Making Modern War" alone gives enough references to justify this thinking). It does not seem to me at all obvious that a NATO victory was pre-ordained, although of course in military terms it should have been given the overwhelming preponderance of force which NATO had over Serbia. The public (let alone private) doubts of important NATO countries as the bombing campaign continued, and their pressures for a "compromise" are not, I think, mentioned. If renewal of the NATO ACTORD had required unanimity, as it usually does (see Libya) it is doubtful whether it would have got it. What is more, I don't think that Milosevic's tactics of how to win an asymmetric victory over a vastly superior military force were badly thought out, even though they were inconsistently applied.
If Mike Jackson ever writes his memoirs, we may have a source for the projected date of the(British) victory parade in Pristina, and the projected date of what he thought might have to be the (British) victory parade in Belgrade. But that he had to think like this is enough to show that the war did not go according to the NATO plan ("we will pretend to bomb them for 48 hours, and they will pretend to resist, and then give in to superior force"). --79.126.144.75 (talk) 21:00, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
- This retelling of history is an unfortunate feature of our coverage on Kosovo - we have a dozen different articles which repeat approximately the same stories on what happened in Kosovo in the 20th century. I think that much of that could be trimmed, although we still need to leave a little for context. bobrayner (talk) 00:35, 13 October 2012 (UTC)
Special pleading
It is unfortunate that people keep on reverting this into the article. Pilger, of course, is far from a neutral source in the topic; and here it seems to be an attempt to distort Pilger's words to damn NATO. NATO intervened to stop widespread atrocities. That's the reality; choke it down.bobrayner (talk) 17:31, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
- And it gets reverted into the article again, undiscussed. The continuous nationalist pov-pushing is very frustrating. bobrayner (talk) 16:07, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
Hague prosecutor submits positive report
With this edit outdated and non-scholarly information was added to the article. More recent report says that With the arrest of Ratko Mladić and Goran Hadžić, Serbia has fulfilled the key obligations toward the Hague Tribunal and successfully completed cooperation. --Antidiskriminator (talk) 22:27, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
- Statement. In 2001, then-President Vojislav Koštunica "fought tooth and nail" against attempts to put Milošević before an international court but was unable to prevent this happening after further atrocities were revealed.
- BS. Koštunica opposed the extradition and criticised the move after it happened. It has nothing to do with the host nation how many atrocities have been committed, it is simply a case of "who wants him?" and "do we hand him over?". The fact is that with Milošević indicted, the dominant pro-west wing of the new regime were hell bent on reeping their personal rewards and so they surrendered him. And as things were, The FRY post-October 2000 had not even launched a campaign to bring former regime members to justice over their actions in the wars - so nobody was in a position to affirm that "further atrocities were revealed". The way the statement is written at the top proclaims that overwhelming evidence silenced the critics of the ICTY and so the nation gracefully handed him over - the reality is that Koštunica was outraged that the move took place, not just because of his own feelings towards the scheme but because as Head of State, nothing should have passed him in a country claiming to be and billed outside as being "democratic". Yet it did. To that end, there were even politicians who resigned over the affair, such as then FRY Prime Minister Zoran Žižić. So that non-encyclopaedic remark is one more fable in some editors' attempts to adjust historical facts. Evlekis (Евлекис) (argue) 12:25, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
NATO estimates
Considering that NATO's estimates of Yugoslav casualties have not been updated for more than a decade, I think it's safe to say that more recent estimates should be used when describing Yugoslav losses. Here are several sources published within the last five years that suggest that the number of Yugoslav soldiers and police killed was significantly lower than the 5,000 claimed by NATO: [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 23 editor (talk • contribs) 19:02, 6 April 2013
- The first source can not be verified, the last is youtube, the third and the fourth are the same (Tanjug). Taking in consideration that the source is government of Serbia I think that source num 4 is most appropriate to be used in the article with clarification that they are official numbers.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 20:37, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
Reference 158 unreliable
Reference 158 is supposed to support the statistics of 1,500 killed and 270,000 driven out of Kosovo before the NATO bombing. But it links to an article which displays these stats but shares absolutely no evidence or references to support them. Furthermore the article itself is being refuted and found generally unreliable by the commentors. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.224.114.122 (talk) 11:58, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
typo / grammar mistake
should be "who" not "whom" in the sentence "an increased presence of Serb paramilitaries and regular forces whom subsequently began pursuing a campaign of retribution" of the opening section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.96.105.246 (talk • contribs)