Talk:King tide

Confusing

"King tides are the highest tides." Well yes but it's really not the point and it creates confusion with a second effect. King tides are those tidal events with the greatest vertical range between high and low and therefore the highest high tides and the lowest low tides of the year. From the point of view of humans who live by the sea, the highest tides are of course the most concerning because they can cause flooding while low tides may cause only a longer walk to the water's edge and some channels may become unnavigable. This also becomes confusing when, as in (say) Venice, the Florida Keys and some low-lying island nations, climate change is also contributing to dangerously higher water levels. This does not increase tidal range but does increase the height of the water at all points in the tidal cycle - so high tides are higher with increased flooding but low tides are not lower. We also need to take out all the generalized summer/winter references. The entry needs a rewrite and I haven't the time just now. Cross Reference (talk) 14:29, 25 November 2019 (UTC)

Why??

Unfortunately the article says nothing about the reason for these especially high tides. There is that link to Perigean spring tide, and it seems to me that this may have exactly the same reason. If this is indeed case the articles should be merged. Also, concerning the summer season, there should be mention of an "apogean spring tide" --BjKa (talk) 09:35, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

You are right. For some reason, many Australian articles are badly written, incomplete, and generally sloppy. This is one of them. There is no explanation whatsoever for why King Tides occur. I will try to fix it. Myles325a (talk) 02:17, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

I agree about " there should be mention of an "apogean spring tide"" . The way the definition is given is really confusing and disorganised.--MarmotteiNoZ 00:30, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

This isn't just confusing, it's a contradiction:

"Its gravitational force is greatest when Earth is closest to the Sun (perihelion – early January) and least when the Sun is farthest from Earth (aphelion – early July).

The king tides occur when the Earth, Moon and Sun are aligned at perigee and perihelion, resulting in the largest tidal range seen over the course of a year. Alignments that are ‘near enough’ occur during approximately three months each winter and again for three months in the summer."

To summarize: "... force is ... least ... [at] aphelion – early July. The king tides occur ... [at] perihelion ... each winter and ... summer." Wrong, wrong, wrong. King tides should occur when the force is greatest, not least, so one season per year, not two. Perihelion is always in January, which is either summer or winter depending on your hemisphere (hence the confusion), but never both summer and winter. It says the force is least at aphelion, so an "apogean spring tide" should be a mild spring tide, not a king tide.

So the article contradicts itself. Are there two king tide seasons or one? My understanding of physics is that aphelion would make the Sun slightly less relevant, so there is only one king tide season, around January (which can be summer or winter, depending on where you live). Websurfing shows organizations in California and Australia saying summer and winter, but not everyone says that. I think Wikipedia:Wikiproject Physics would agree that there should be only one king tide season per year. Art LaPella (talk) 18:42, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

I agree, it contradicts itself. This page makes it clear that the highest tides are in winter with the highest tides around January 2nd, and lowest in summer around July 2 Tidal Variations - The Influence of Position and Distance. I'll correct it. Popular newspaper articles on tides can't be relied on I agree, quite often they use Wikipedia as a source! Might even have got the info from this very article - if you search for "King tide" it comes near the top of the search results. So wikipedia article errors sometimes become self reinforcing. Robert Walker (talk) 12:18, 19 October 2014 (UTC)

I've simply removed most of the last part of the section - as it gave no citations and contradicts the rest of the article and is not supported by the citations given for the article. Especially, no citation given for the notion that there is a King tide on the East coast in the Australian winter that goes unnoticed because it happens at night. I don't find that believable especially as the East coast of Australia has semidiurnal tides, so would have two tides of roughly equal height in day time and night time, it may just be editorial speculation who knows, at any rate it contradicts the rest of the article again and doesn't make sense physically.Robert Walker (talk) 12:28, 19 October 2014 (UTC)

Surely the perihelion aspect is clear: maximum solar effect when closest to the sun around early January (whether that means summer or winter or neither, depending on where you are South, North, or Equatorial) while the lunar effect will not have any tidy seasonal pattern because a year is not an integer multiple of the moon's period. Thus, not only would spring tides (due to the sun-moon-earth alignment) not be tied to the early January timing, so also would be the variation in the earth-moon distance not be tied to early January. In other words, there are three factors: earth-moon-sun alignment, earth-sun distance, and earth-moon distance and the "kingliness" aspect depends on their concordance. However, at a given place the actual tides (their height and timing) are due to the large-scale oscillations in ocean basins and their phases may well not match the astronomical phases. NickyMcLean (talk) 06:38, 12 June 2016 (UTC)