Talk:Killing of the Haight family

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On 22 January 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved to 2023 Enoch killings. The result of the discussion was moved to Killing of the Haight family.

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Removal of picture[edit]

Lets be reasonable....There are tons of newspaper articles that use this picture and that provides proof what the family looks like. Instead of deleting it why don't you wait for a consensus or provide proof that it is not the family picture? If all the pictures of the family are not proof what do you need? This is lame to even discuss that there is no proof this is the family. If there is no proof then how about there being no proof that any of this is true? We will restore it while we see if any agree with you of its removal. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11603183/Michael-Haight-accused-killing-seven-members-family-including-five-children-Utah.html?fbclid=IwAR0UWLJmjo4PzR9OKGao8Em0cF1FqTXQ6-2Vb4Omrr-DfFRyvN64IaZlzOM Johanneum (talk) 15:42, 7 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This is a clear copyright violation. see [1]. WWGB (talk) 22:50, 7 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 22 January 2023[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved to Killing of the Haight family. (closed by non-admin page mover) The Night Watch (talk) 00:40, 30 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

2023 Enoch, Utah shooting → 2023 Enoch killings – Usually only the city is listed in such titles. Jax 0677 (talk) 00:23, 22 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support – the format with missing WP:GEOCOMMA is hideous, too. Dicklyon (talk) 00:35, 22 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - I just saw this talk page discussion. Either the banner announcing the RM discussion has yet to be posted, or Wikipedia's new format is more hideous than I thought. Anyway, to set the record straight, I just moved the article title back to the original title for reasons I state in the edit summary. Love of Corey (talk) 00:48, 22 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. The state name is required for disambiguation. Enoch could apply to Enoch, Kentucky, Enoch, Texas, Enoch, Utah or Enoch, West Virginia. Also, previous related discussions have opposed the use of a second comma. See, for example, Talk:Aurora, Illinois shooting#Requested move 17 July 2020. WWGB (talk) 00:54, 22 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - The title of this article should not use the normal naming conventions for events. It should instead follow the naming conventions for violence and deaths, perhaps being named like murders, as "Killing of the Haight family", "Haight familicide" or "Haight family killing(s)" (or shooting(s)). There are a number of similar familicide articles that are named "(Family name) family murder/killing/shooting" or "(family name/placename) familicide". So I think we should consider a more consistent naming convention with such familicide articles. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 02:21, 22 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- Reply - I will buy into that, favoring Killing of the Haight family. --Jax 0677 (talk) 22:20, 22 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per WWGB, would Support Killing of the Haight family however. —Locke Cole • t • c 21:45, 23 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Lead section and article chronology[edit]

I tagged the lead section as having extra information that is not in the article. Currently it is written more like a news style report that teases the reader to read on. Significant details - like earlier domestic violence reports to the police - are omitted from the lead. Domestic violence like this is not a one-off out-of-the-blue incident, it has precursor episodes that indicate increased risk. An impending relationship break-up is one factor that increases the risk of fatal events like this. The article needs to be rewritten so that the precursor facts appear in the article in a chronological order before the shooting is covered. It should not simply regurgitate what the police have uncovered in their investigation and reporters are reporting as the investigation proceeds. Police and reporters come at these sorts of events backwards starting from the now and working back into the past. Familicide article like this one need to be written more like biographies but of the whole family, with things put into chronological order. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 02:55, 22 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I see that WWGB sought to address my clean-up tag by adding details about the divorce proceedings to the body of the article. This doesn't address the fundamental issue that Wikipedia is not the news, but an encyclopedia so its articles should not be written like news stories are, and instead be written in an Encyclopedic style. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 03:30, 22 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

So, are you going to address that by editing the article? WWGB (talk) 05:12, 22 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]