Talk:Kamila Magálová

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Intro[edit]

Twice I've placed "born" into the intro of this BLP & both times been reverted. WP:BIRTHDATE appears to suggest that "born" should be added to the intro. Looking at hundreds of other BLPs, that seems to be the practice. GoodDay (talk) 02:00, 16 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

WP:BIRTHDATE does not say anything about combining "nee" with "born", which is what we are disagreeing about. Revirvlkodlaku (talk) 02:07, 16 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Is "(née Slováková) (born 16 November 1950)" acceptable? GoodDay (talk) 02:14, 16 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Nikkimaria, Firefangledfeathers, David Eppstein, Woodroar, and Sideswipe9th: Perhaps best to concentrate on this BLP. At current status, the intro seems off without "born" included. GoodDay (talk) 02:42, 16 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Those are all examples, and though you may argue for precedent, it's not clear to me how prevalent it is, and I still haven't seen any explicit guideline on the issue in the MOS. My main point is that "née" and "born" both mean the same thing (though granted, not every English speaker may be aware of this), so it is a form of duplication. Why do you insist on it? Revirvlkodlaku (talk) 02:45, 16 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The word "née" means birth-name or name before marriage. The word "born" means birth. GoodDay (talk) 02:48, 16 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The word "née" means born. Nikkimaria (talk) 02:52, 16 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The page links to (via re-direct) Birth name, not Birth. -- GoodDay (talk) 02:58, 16 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'd suggest "(née Slováková; born 16 November 1950)", which follows featured article precedents like Priyanka Chopra, Kareena Kapoor Khan, and Courtney Love. Woodroar (talk) 02:49, 16 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@GoodDay, I'm trying to wrap my head around your motive in this discussion. Firstly, you haven't made it clear why you insist that both "née" and "born" be included. Second, the way you initially presented the issue at WP:BLP was somewhat disingenuous, as you made it about the inclusion of the word "born" in the lede, without properly specifying that the real issue is the duplication of "née" and "born". Lastly, you are (erroneously) arguing about the definition of a French word with a native French speaker, something you clearly are not. I'm hoping you can provide some clarification. Revirvlkodlaku (talk) 03:39, 16 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't understand your position either. I'm certain if you were to delete "born" from hundreds of BLPs, just because "née" (which re-directs to Birth name & not Birth) was in them. You'd be reverted across the board, by multiple editors. GoodDay (talk) 03:44, 16 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

But my position is simple, and quite clear: as I've explained before, I feel that "née" and "born" are a duplication of the same word. How much more clear could I possibly make my position? Revirvlkodlaku (talk) 03:58, 16 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

They're not the same thing. Again, if you want to make changes to hundreds of BLPs as I said, with the argument you're repeating? Then do so & let me know how it turns out. GoodDay (talk) 04:05, 16 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The examples in MOS:NEE make it clear that, according to our MOS, we use "born" for the birthdate even when we use "née" or "né" for the birth name. I can argue why it's a good convention (because we are writing in English here, not French, and even though "née" literally means "born" in French its English meaning is more specifically only about names) but individual articles are not the place for that; we should follow the MOS or change the MOS, not make exceptions for argumentative editors. —David Eppstein (talk) 06:18, 16 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@David Eppstein, appreciate the feedback, and will make the change accordingly. Btw, no need for name calling ("argumentative" editors). I wasn't being merely argumentative; I didn't like the change and wanted a good reason to adopt it.

@GoodDay, this is what I was looking for from you, but instead all I got was vague arguments. I will revert back to your position, per MOS. Revirvlkodlaku (talk) 07:48, 16 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]