Talk:Javad Nurbakhsh

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May/June 2009: Citations and cleanup-reorganize[edit]

Have done some basic cleanup and found an obituary in The Guardian. Still needs a lot of work as the two fields of psychiatry and sufism are intermingled. Esowteric (talk) 09:22, 1 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

24.7.98.1 has removed all references to the obituary in The Guardian. Esowteric (talk) 20:18, 10 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Dash and bother ... original looks like a copy and paste[edit]

I've just noticed that the article prior to my attempts at cleanup is reproduced on the www.nimatullahi.org web site here, and that page is clearly labelled "Copyright © 1996-2009 by Khaniqahi Nimatullahi; All Rights Reserved."

It's not clear which came first, this article or the web site article.

Will check with another user about this. Esowteric (talk) 16:18, 1 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Options: deletion or radical pruning back to obituary and other referenced material? Could also check with the site which came first: wp or web site article? Esowteric (talk) 16:28, 1 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The text was changed by Jeremiah Cornelius (talk) to use primary sources here (14 Oct 2008) Esowteric (talk) 16:48, 1 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Copyrighted material removed[edit]

Having discussed the matter with User:Jayen466, an experienced editor, I have removed copyrighted content copied verbatim from http://www.nimatullahi.org/nurbakhsh. Have kept a minimum amount of this primary material and made sure this is in quotes, attributed and referenced. Sorry, but it's better than having to nominate the article for deletion, and yes it does leave holes in the text.

Also, remaining text needs to be checked against the current secondary sources to make sure it's not too closely tracking those sources. For background, see WP:COPYRIGHT; WP:PLAGIARISM (a new guideline that is currently still disputed); Wikipedia:Close paraphrasing (this is just an essay; it has no binding force, but contains useful ideas). Esowteric (talk) 17:33, 1 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Other material removed[edit]

Some non-neutral material modified re Dr Nurbakhsh leaving Iran. Dr N told me he could return to Iran whenever he wanted and, though this is not citeable in the article, it is sufficient to allow the removal of non-cited, non-neutral material of tangential relevance to the page that differs widely from Dr N's own account. Redheylin (talk) 00:44, 20 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Removed bias references[edit]

The references to the Aljazera was removed since it was made to disqualify all Sufi orders using montage and out of context sentences.Kamrang (talk) 16:05, 28 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that the Aljazera material itself was horribly biased, but this is why I only included a fact that came straight from Dr. Nurbakhsh's mouth. This does not necessarily disqualify all (or any) Sufi orders, but highlights a key difference between Dr. Nurbakhsh's view and that of mainstream Sufi orders. I think anyone researching him would be interested in knowing his unique perspective. If I had access to the full, unedited interview then that would surely be preferable, but I still hold that my edit was neutral. A.Aboumrad (talk) 17:26, 28 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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June 2018: Minor edits for affiliation/association and customary/legal forms of address[edit]

Removal of the "Series on Shiism" info box. {Shia Islam|collapsed=1} The distinction of a Shia affiliation is irrelevant and potentially misleading. Dr. Nurbakhsh was raised in Shia confession, but made numerous personal statements and written references in published works, which elect his life and work outside the scope of this categorization. Although numerous historical and doctrinal circumstances link Shia Islam with Sufism in general, and the Nimatullahi in particular, Dr Nurbakhsh was unchallenged in his non-sectarianism, both personally and in his teaching. His numerous works, including the Encyclopedic, sixteen-volume "Sufi Symbolism" (Farhang-e Nurbakhsh) [1] and Sufism Vol I – IV (Marefat ۱ – ۷) [2] cite with authority from previous Shaykhs and Qtobs of various orders (tariqa) in Sufism with no distinction between their sectarian confession. The 1,100 year scope of this source material is provided from predominantly Sunni-affiliated sources, again due to significant contemporary milieu in which these were written, not as a contrary promotion of Sunni doctrines or jurisprudence. I understand that this is a topic of sensitivity to practicing Shia, both those who style themselves as Nimatullahi adherents, and those who do not. These largely partisan sentiments are not appropriate for the biography of Dr. Nurbakhsh under an umbrella taxonomy for sectarian confession that he abjured, through relative heterodoxy. In Dr. Nurbakhsh's own words:

...objecting to others' religious views in any way is a form of arrogance and self-centeredness, constituting the greatest offense in Sufism. [3]

In a related effort to accurately reflect both the personal position of Dr. Nurbakhsh and his recorded output, the honorific "Hazrat" has been edited to read "Dr." in the "name =" field of the box {Infobox Muslim scholar}. "Hazrat" is a form of invocational address, usually translated as "presence" or "revered". The term is used devotionally in regards to "holy men", by their devotees. Although Dr. Nurbakhsh may be referred to, using this term electively by individuals, it is not a style he himself used, nor did he promote this as convention. As an aside, using "Hazrat" in conjunction with his sobriquet "Nur Ali Shah" is a possible correct usage in the Persian language, it remains awkward if not incorrect a form of address with his given name. Either way, in his publications and under his legal title, the honorific address "Dr." was used through his adult lifetime and since his passing. To again quote Dr. Nurbakhsh,

Together, we must free Sufism from dogmatism and pretension and work on protecting the basis of Sufi spirituality from hypocrisy. [3] Jeremiah Cornelius (talk) 22:27, 11 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ https://www.worldcat.org/title/sufi-symbolism-the-nurbakhsh-encyclopedia-of-sufi-terminology-farhang-e-nurbakhsh/oclc/27145295
  2. ^ https://www.worldcat.org/title/sufism-i-meaning-knowledge-and-unity/oclc/60252053
  3. ^ a b From the short essay "Who is a Sufi" in his "Discourses on the Sufi Path" (KNP, 1996) https://www.worldcat.org/title/discourses-on-the-sufi-path/oclc/832743439
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