Talk:HMS Owen Glendower (1808)

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A fact from HMS Owen Glendower (1808) appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 4 October 2009 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that before taking Charles Darwin to South America as captain of HMS Beagle, Robert FitzRoy visited the Galápagos Islands a decade earlier as a midshipman aboard HMS Owen Glendower (pictured)?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2009/October.

Wikipedia

Shakespeare[edit]

I cannot see anything saying the ship was named after Shakespeare's character, or that the angicised spelling is due to Shakespeare. [1] This is a close as I got. Shakespeare's portrayal of Owen Glendower, as he wrote Owain Glyndwr, has arguably gone on to play a large part in creating the modern perception of the Welsh prince as a heroic figure. The ship was named after the person, not the character. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 21:04, 13 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Roger 8 Roger, the chain is based on this: Owen Glendower (Shakespeare character). Apparently the anglicisation is used in Holinshed's Chronicles, which served as one of Shakespeare's main sources for his history play Henry IV, Part One based on the historical Owain Glyndŵr. Glendower is referred to in Henry IV, Part Two, but he does not have a speaking role in that play. It seems a reasonable inference that the individuals in the Admiralty responsible for naming ships were familiar with Shakespeare's plays. They may have been familiar with Holinshed too, but suspect the plays were more widely known. How do you prefer to proceed? Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 04:19, 14 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I think that without a reference that confirms the ship was named after the Shakespearean character we should not assume she was. The anglicised spelling would have been normal until well into the 20th century. I tried to see if the ship's class gave a hint of where the name came from, but I drew a blank - there were lots of frigates in that class with no clear common link with the names. My first assumption is that it was named after a character from British history, which in this case happened to be from Wales. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 21:40, 14 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Roger 8 Roger:: I would agree. I will reword the statement while putting it into a footnote. The anglicization attribution to Holinshed should come in, together with the appearance in Shakespeare, but without the explicit attribution of the name to Shakespeare. Cheers, Acad Ronin (talk) 23:23, 14 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The 'Owen Glendower', East Indiaman, 1000 Tons. (Entering Bombay Harbour) RMG PY0566[edit]

A clipping of this picture has been used here, but the NMM / RMG says this ship is an East Indiaman the Owen Glendower (built, 1839). A fly in the ointment is that RMG says it's registered at 852 tons, but the artist says 1000 tons. Broichmore (talk) 04:34, 12 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Don't take burthen estimates too seriously. By chance, I am currently working on a vessel that appears in RN records as of 315 tons, and in the Register of Shipping at 388 tons. With Owen Glendower the artist was just saying "Big". Lloyd's Register for 1840 shows only one Owen Glendower. It shows her as being launched in 1839 and of 852 tons. Cheers, Acad Ronin (talk) 12:34, 12 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Worthpoint[edit]

Warning: Worthpoint have been passing this picture BEAUTIFUL OIL PAINTING HMS OWEN GLENDOWER NAVAL BATTLESHIP GOLD FRAME off as HMS Owen Glendower (1808), see https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/oil-painting-hms-owen-glendower-naval-1733124774

Their picture is actually the Owen Glendower (ship, 1839), not HMS Owen Glendower (1808). You can see proof of that by looking at the original image owned by the ‘’National Maritime Museum’’ in London at https://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/140513.html. In other words their picture is the 'Owen Glendower', East Indiaman, 1000 Tons. (Entering Bombay Harbour) an EIC ship and not the earlier Royal Navy vessel.

They suggest (their) artist Cooper is still alive. However their website has a few examples of his work, and are inconsistent (lazy) about describing him and in fact he could be long time dead. There's a chance he may well be William Sidney Cooper. Broichmore (talk) 07:40, 14 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It also looks later than 1808. I suggest we remove it because it now seems clear it is the wrong ship. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 08:12, 14 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I edited the Owain Glyndŵr article that also used the wrong image. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 13:32, 14 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]