Talk:Gurjar/Archive 3

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Archive 4

Semi-protected edit request on 13 February 2014

Gujjar speaks different languages like Urdu Hindi, Punjabi, Gojri, Pashto, rajhstani, Meewati, Gujrati, persian etc. Ch Zafar Habib Gujjar (talk) 11:35, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. — {{U|Technical 13}} ^{(t • e • c)} 19:43, 15 February 2014 (UTC)

== NAND BABA FOSTER FATHER OF LORD KRISHNA WAS AHIR NOT GUJJAR? == JAN RADHA AND YESHODA WAS GURJAR I CAN GIVE U MANY PROOF NT IN GOOGLE BUT IN EPIC BOOKS EVEN SAYING KRISHNA WERE USED TO PLAY WITH GURJARIS MEANS GURJAR GIRLS

NAND BABA FOSTER FATHER OF LORD KRISHNA WAS AHIR NOT GUJJAR?--PLEASE CORRECT AFTER RESARCH:-

http://books.google.com/books?id=nqvloPNdEZgC&pg=PA44&dq=NAND+++AHIR+LORD+KRISHNA&hl=en&ei=sO8uTZWSG4L78Ab8lZH1CA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCgQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=NAND%20%20%20AHIR&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=1QmrSwFYe60C&pg=PA5&dq=NAND+++AHIR+LORD+KRISHNA&hl=en&ei=sO8uTZWSG4L78Ab8lZH1CA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9&ved=0CE4Q6AEwCA#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=LPsvytmN3mUC&pg=PA5&dq=NAND+++AHIR+LORD+KRISHNA&hl=en&ei=OPAuTe3fLoXGlQeas6nbCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCUQ6AEwADgK#v=onepage&q&f=false is the Prithvi Raj Chohan, Raja Nand Raj, Raja Poras who protect his land, and battle Alaxender the Greate were not belong the Gujjars Tribes ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.157.243.115 (talk) 21:50, 16 April 2014 (UTC)

Gujjar in Pakistan

hi there are nothing about gujjar in pakistan i want to update it but someone delete it... why without any base you have deleted my all information about gujjars in pakistan and there so many wrong things about gurjar history i can prove it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zhgujjar (talk • contribs) 15:46, 5 May 2014 (UTC) 7

Semi-protected edit request on 16 August 2014

in this article topic haryana is not completed because info provided is very less Mohitgujjar (talk) 09:19, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Cannolis (talk) 09:37, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

SOMEONE PLEASE ADD SOMETHING ON PAKISTANI GUJJARS

Why is there nothing on Pakistan this is very insulting that a group of people who represent 20% of the population which is 34 million people(the size of the population of Canada) are being overlooked. How can you sum them up in less than a line Id expect a whole article on just Pakistani Gujjars? If corrupt people keep taking things down without reason then we should make our own page. Some proud Pakistani Gujjar please do this.

Source? - Sitush (talk) 09:36, 12 November 2014 (UTC)

Poor edits continue

I have just had to revert yet again. You can't just remove content because you do not like it, you should not give undue weight (such as showing a photo of one person as if they somehow represent an entire, very large community), you should ensure that everything is sourced and you should ensure that those sources are reliable.

Please do not reinstate that stuff without discussion here first. Seek consensus. - Sitush (talk) 09:36, 12 November 2014 (UTC)

Mr. Sitush, Your reasons to undo Sardar Patel information & picture is not acceptable without clear facts and proof. You can not decide views of large community. I object your corrections. You are doing debate to solve the issue but showing rigidness. I have already provided you enough justification and proofs. So please do not undo till the answer from your side to counter my facts provided you. Gurjeshwar (talk) 11:31, 12 November 2014 (UTC)

One problem with the Hindustan Times stuff that you keep adding is that it is obviously just an editorial filler piece. Worse, though, is they do not say where they get their statistics from and the thing dates from 2009. The first post-war caste census was not until 2011 and I don't think even the finalised caste analysis of that one has been published yet. The thing is just puffed-up stuff of no merit.

The image is just ridiculous. A community is not defined by a single person. Montages are also deprecated in the case of caste articles - see User:Sitush/Common#Montages. - Sitush (talk) 19:55, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

Gurjeshwar: First, Thank you to take effort to always respond BELOW previous text. Second, Sitush has explained many times why he believes that those numbers and images should not be in this article. Other editors have supported him, and you are the only one reverting these constructive edits. Please read about WP:CONSENSUS. Third, I do not really understand why you copy the notices and warnings to my Talk page - if you want to discuss them, you should do this on your own Talk page. Regards, kashmiri ^TALK 11:45, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

Mr. Sitush :: BE Polite

'Mr Sitush, you are doing what you think right? Why? have you given any references that, why you are deleting other writer's content. You are reverting the stuff from various wiki pages including this, by saying no? This is not good way. You should present the concrete reasons before to revert. Now complaining me as a puppet user. I have my own identity and forced myself to write on wiki after viewing your forceful editing on Gurjar. I have no time to argue with rigid writers like you. There is lots of wiki writers whose work are really appreciable. But here the writers like you are not doing good work to improve Wikipedia. Nothing is going wrong as you are removing and reverting the contents from various wiki pages. I hope you will be able to understand that being a human you also can not be right every time as You do not own this wikipedia. Be polite and prove that you are doing in right way. BE Polite & more concern on text grammar & phrases rather than argue & reverting existing texts thanksRoyalGurjar (talk) 17:44, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

I am not aware of any issues regarding my civility on this talk page or article. I have given my reasons for my edits here and they are based in policy and widely-accepted guidelines. You may disagree with my reasons but you will have to do so on a similar basis, not some gut instinct. - Sitush (talk) 20:42, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

Sir,please reinsert Gurjar samrat mihir bhoja file. Sir,Gurjara Pratihara dynasty king Mihira Bhoja I (836–885 CE) or Bhoja I was a Gurjar King,even Government Of India knows this. Click on the links below please-

delhi.gov.in/DoIT/DoIT_Dsec/ward1-5.xls

http://www.findlatitudeandlongitude.com/?loc=Gurjar+Samrat+Mihir+Bhoj+Marg%2C+Pandav+Nagar%2C+New+Delhi%2C+Delhi+110092%2C+India&id=1057564

, Gurjar Samrat Mihir Bhoj Marg near Yamuna River

http://in.placelandia.com/map/gurjar-samrat-mihir-bhoj-marg-pandav-nagar-new-delhi-delhi-india.html

NH-24 (National Highway no. 24) from Sarai Kale Khan village Road(New Delhi) to Ghazipur Dairy Farm(Delhi) - U.P. Border Road (Ring Road)......Ghaziabad -Hapur bipass....to Moradabad ...named as "Gurjar Samrat Mihir Bhoj Marg".

John811jd (talk)

The government of India doesn't even get its own maps right. It constantly misrepresents the borders. - Sitush (talk) 13:57, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

Population

I have just removed some population figures from Category:Gurjar with this edit. I cannot see the source and the figures seem likely to have been adjusted into the Indian numbering format. It might be worth adding to this article if the information checks out. - Sitush (talk) 20:41, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

Gujarati?

Is Gujarati another word for these people? It is the only form of any of these words I have ever heard (I live in Canada) --Richardson mcphillips (talk) 00:48, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

Gujurati may be a collective noun for them but it is most often used to mean the Gujarati language or in the sense of the state of Gujarat, I think. The plural for the community is usually Gurjars or Gujjars. - Sitush (talk) 16:46, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

Thanks. I realize my experience might be limited. It might be useful to mention this in the article for someone looking for or more familiar with the word Gujarati. --Richardson mcphillips (talk) 19:30, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 May 2015

i am to add some information about gujar people. Please accept my request for editing Saqraat (talk) 10:45, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

 Not done This is not the right page to request additional user rights.
If you want to suggest a change, please request this in the form "Please replace XXX with YYY" or "Please add ZZZ between PPP and QQQ".
Please also cite reliable sources to back up your request. - Arjayay (talk) 11:03, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 June 2015

Edit request 42.83.86.2 (talk) 14:57, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

Edit request 42.83.86.2 (talk) 14:57, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

• no request —SpacemanSpiff 15:05, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 July 2015

edit request

Not done: as you have not requested a change.
If you want to suggest a change, please request this in the form "Please replace XXX with YYY" or "Please add ZZZ between PPP and QQQ".
Please also cite reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to, or changed in, any article. - Arjayay (talk) 08:26, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

Deleted Georgian Origin Section

1. Please do not copy verbatim from other sites. It not only violates copyrights but the sources are not verifiable. 2. Please cite a verifiable source of "Dr Huthi of Georgia"'s study. If it is an academic study, please provide the article. If it is not and is not a common knowledge, then it is not verifiable and hence is not attributable. 3. The section on "Georgian Origin" is thus deleted. PRITHVIRAJ CHOUHAN WAS ALSO GURJAR SEE HERE

http://rajputras.blogspot.in/2011/02/prathviraj-chauhan.html

https://www.morebooks.de/store/gb/book/prithviraj-chauhan/isbn/978-613-3-57580-6stock http://books.google.co.in/books?id=vRwS6FmS2g0C&pg=PA225&lpg=PA225&dq=fight+of+peshawar+jai+pal+khatana&source=bl&ots=REbDOrP69R&sig=FGOTPSBkGXMhh_vdtlqXiNpJBFI&hl=en&sa=X&ei=xlDSUqfvDoaOrQel_oGQCQ&ved=0CFYQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=fight%20of%20peshawar%20jai%20pal%20khatana&f=false

User:Abhijna

Sardar Patel was a Leva patidar from Gujarat. Patidars from Gujarat are kunbis/kurmis. Please see URL for Patidar samaj web site http://www.patidarsamaj.org/culture-traditions.htm. http://bakrol.50megs.com/history.pdf http://www.matiyapatidar.org/index2.htm http://www.lps-london-snv.co.uk/about_us.htm

They clearly mention that they are Kurmis.

Gujjars are from georgia or not. It has been a very big topic of debate among historians.

http://www.tribuneindia.com/1999/99may13/j&k.htm#1

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/MABrandon/Origins.html

Sardar patel was a Gurjar. On 135th anniversery of this leader this fact was made clear to everyone in India by NDTV. Beside that There are unlimited books claiming that. Every year his birth anniversery as "Sardar Patel Jayanti" has been celebrated by his own gurjar community....

http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_1832939,0008.htm Patels do not belong to any particular religion or caste; rather the name merely indicates that the bearer came from a particular region, historically. Patels are pre-dominantly followers of Hinduism and also followers of the following religions: Islam, Zoroastrianism and Christianity.

Gurjar Gur (enemy) + Ujar (destroyer)

Gurjar means destroyer of the enemy Ali rock 1 (talk) 14:00, 25 July 2015 (UTC)

Gurjar Gur (enemy) + Ujar (destroyer) Gurjar means destroyer of the enemy

Gurjar Gur (enemy) + Ujar (destroyer)

Gurjar means destroyer of the enemy Ali rock 1 (talk) 14:01, 25 July 2015 (UTC)

Georgian origin

Who is Dr. Huthi? This whole section seems hard to believe. What academic study states this? Theory about Gujars in Afghanistan is not authentic: People living in hills and have business of buying/selling cattle are called Gujars. They are perceived highly ignorant and illiterate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 39.33.101.202 (talk) 12:55, 4 August 2015 (UTC)

Its nothing like hard to believe in this topic Mr. Digvijay.

Dr. Huthi from Georgia came to India and investigated the Gujurs and attempted to develop a theory that they came from Georgia, all the way down to their name - Gujur - which was said to be related to the Persian word for Georgians - Gujris. This would go along with general thinking that the Gujurs have part-Caucasian (Gergian, Chechen, etc.) heritage.

taken from http://robertlindsay.blogspot.com/2006/10/afghanistan-wrapup-for-october-19-2006.html

its all rong ...about gujjar

Ali rock 1 (talk) 13:59, 25 July 2015 (UTC)

Gujjar

This page should not be speedy deleted as pure vandalism or a blatant hoax, because... (Gujjar article fully consist of vandalism) --202.69.15.66 (talk) 12:13, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

Well, I agree that the article is pretty bad. But it doesn't look like you are going to be able to help fix it. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 22:53, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

Gurjar are not Gujjars

Any nomad in afghanistan is called a gujjar. These gujjars have no connection with the ancient Gurjars which is a sanskrit word. It was the Moghuls who brought in these gujars into the Punjab so there history is not old. I will add reference in main article.80.42.181.138 (talk) 17:01, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

I am sympathetic to the issue. Please provide reliable sources that support the view, and we can add them to the article. Cheers, Kautilya3 (talk) 17:06, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

Gujars were mostly concentrated in the himalayan region like kashmir going back and forth according to seasons with their flocks as nomads do. Emperor Akbar established them in the Punjab in the Gujrat district. Emperor Jahangir states in his memos;

"At the time when His Majesty Akbar went to Kashmir, a fort had been built on the bank of that river(Chenab). Having brought to this fort a body of Gujars who had passed their time in the neighbourhood in thieving and highway robbery, he established them here. As it had become the abode of Gujars, he made it a separate pargana, and gave it the name of Gujrat." (ref: The Memoirs of Jahangueir (Rogers), Volume 1, chpt. 23)

So as you can see from the above reference their history, in the then, India is not that old. Based on that they have no relationship with the Gurjar-Rashtra of India Gujarat. -- — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.42.194.205 (talk) 20:57, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for providing a source. Can I urge you to look for contemporary sources, preferably written by historians, as required by WP:HISTRS? In any case, the quote you have provided does not say where these people came from. It says they were already in the "neighbourhood." So the claim that Akbar brought them from somewhere far away is not supported by the soruce. - Kautilya3 (talk) 08:28, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

If gujjars are not Gurjars then you can just make another article on gurjars, In Pakistan and Afghanistan w are called Gujjars and not Gurjar. Gurjars were rajput converts not the true gujars as we are the ones who lived in himalayas. Can you please change the article back to gujjars as in each and every reference sourced in this article gujjar is mentioned not gurjarsSaladin1987 16:17, 11 December 2015 (UTC)

I have reverted your latest attempt to reinstate the poor sources from the Raj era. I could fix the poor phrasing but there is no point. I'm pretty sure that you have been warned about this in the past but I've no time to check right now. As Kautilya3 says above, please find some reliable sources. - Sitush (talk) 16:27, 11 December 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 December 2015

I want to make some correction and provide better refrence kindly accept my edit edit request. Dev raj gujjar (talk) 05:40, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

• Not done: this is not the right page to request additional user rights. You may reopen this request with the specific changes to be made and someone will add them for you, or if you have an account, you can wait until you are autoconfirmed and edit the page yourself. --Stabila711 (talk) 06:06, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

Origin and lead

I have sourced various theories regarding the origin of the Gurjars, Indo-scythian, white huna, Indo aryan etc.I feel that the lead of the article should not contain Varna and various categorisation.Mkrestin (talk) 22:30, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

There is nothing wrong with the lead. It contains sourced and verifiable information only. They are variously categorized as is also followed in the article.--SMahenS (Talk) 11:06, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

@Mkrestin: The various theories you mention are the dead theories of another century, picked up from a paper by a PhD student in a corner-place journal. Serious scholars don't debate these issues any more, basically there is no evidence one way or another. I think this material is WP:UNDUE, and it needs to be summarised very very briefly. - Kautilya3 (talk) 19:49, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

The main reason the early historians of the 20th century believed that Gurjars were of foreign origin was that they were apparently "bracketed with the Huns" in early references. That is it! And, apparently the Persian name for Khazars sounds like Gujar, and there are various settlements on what could be taken as the route from Caspian Sea to India. But the scholars who looked for evidence didn't find any, because there is apparently no similarity between the Khazars and Gurjars. So, I think it is fine to mention that some scholars believed that there was a connection, but I don't think we should spend too much space on it. - Kautilya3 (talk) 20:28, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

The revised Origins section is appalling and should be reverted. - Sitush (talk) 21:02, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

@Kautilya3, Yes, I too believe that Gurjars are Indo-Ayran people, originally from Rajasthan (more or less what historian Baij nath puri says), but the theories of foreign origin are far from dead .The celebrated historian RS Sharma also link Gurjars with central Asia .He believed that they were known as gasura and came as conquering minority in India and founded many kingdoms.If you think that the theories can be better summarised , you are welcome to do so.thanks .Mkrestin.

References

Gurjaradesa

I have often mentioned that "Gurjar" has two meanings: the Gurjar ethnic group, and the people of the Gurjara country. I have now created a page for the latter, under Gurjaradesa. The first reference to Gurjara in historical records, in Bana's Harshacharita, can be safely taken to refer to the people of the Gurjara country, because all the other references in the sentence are also to peoples of countries. This being in 605 CE, I think almost almost all the references in the records since then similarly refer to the people of the country. I know that the Gujarat state web site says otherwise. - Kautilya3 (talk) 20:42, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

we can't generalise this actually.For example this same sentence of harishcharita is interpreted by scholars differently, some take it as reference to Gurjar ethnic group , while some other in geographical sense.Like in Indian national anthem , there is line 'Punjab, sindh, Gujarat, Maratha,Dravid, utkal,Banga' , so if we go by your theory , we should always take Marathas for the people of Maharashtra post creation of national anthem , but obviously that's not the case.So we need to cite the way referred source state it , that is , in geographical sense or ethnicity sense.Thank You .Mkrestin.

Fair point. Perhaps I should have said that after 605 CE, all the uses of "Gurjara" have two possible meanings. The scholars that consider both the possibilities are preferable. But many scholars that are cited here weren't even cognisant of the other meaning. The chapter 13 of Hiltebeitel's book has a good discussion of the scholars' motivations and drivers [1]. - Kautilya3 (talk) 14:36, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

Gurjar vs. Gujjar

I actually think that the name Gurjar for the ethnic group is not right. I have always come across the name Gujjar for the ethnic group; the nomadic people who roam in and around the Himalayan ranges and rear cattle. Historically, Gurjar is probably for the people living in a territorial area. Thanks, Wasiq 9320 (talk) 17:30, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for writing. That agrees with my understanding too. Axtramedium reverted my edit on another page [2] claiming the opposite, and I had been wondering about it. - Kautilya3 (talk) 18:09, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

The ethnic group is known as Gurjar in Rajasthan , Madhya Pradesh, uttar Pradesh (they are found only in western UP) etc, basically majority of Indian states where they are settled agriculturist and land owning caste .The Gujjar version is popular in Himalayan regions where they are largely nomadic .Its a vast community and there are many variation in spellings , Gurjar, Gurjjar, Gujjar, Gujar,Gojar etc .Similiarly Jats are known so in Rajasthan , Madhya Pradesh , Haryana etc , but they are known as jatt is in Punjab, Himalayan region etc.Actually Historically Gurjars have been dominating force in Rajasthan , and they are still second largest caste group in Rajasthan , after Jats.They are more dominating force in eastern Rajasthan , though found throughout Rajasthan.Due to their dominance , major part of Rajasthan and modern north Gujarat were known as Gurjaratra or Gurjardesh.Later on Gurjar was also used in geographical sense .So one has to use the word in the sense what reference want us to do.Thank you .Mkrestin

Well i have skimmed through a plethora of sources and it looks like the terms Gujjar and Gurjar are used interchangeably. However, the term Gujjar is used way more often than Gurjar, both by historians/academics and common people. I suppose it is in accordance to WP policy to have article names that people are familiar with. Regards, Wasiq 9320 (talk) 07:26, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

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"Global Journal of Engineering, Science and Social Science Studies"

Looks like a terrible source which shouldn't be used. I note that the article linked by Saladin seems mentioned only in this self-published book. Doug Weller talk 15:20, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

Gujjars in Pakistan

Majority of the gujjars are from Pakistan. Can some body please write about that too. Saladin1987 23:37, 5 July 2016 (UTC)

We can write about any subject as long as we have reliable sources to base the content on. We really ought to be looking for modern scholarly works that post-date the independence of India and Pakistan, because of the problems of POV associated with colonial writers from 100+ years ago. Perhaps the best way to achieve what you are asking for is to put a list of good sources that you have found on the talk page here. That would allow other experienced editors to discuss the quality of those sources and hopefully reach some agreement about the text that could be based on them. --RexxS (talk) 21:14, 7 July 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 August 2016

Ilike69 (talk) 08:09, 19 August 2016 (UTC)

This article is not as per historic Data available....history says otherwise....Wikipedia is a Reputed source of information...why so much errors are in there...Please dont spread false information.

Not done: as you have not requested a specific change in the form "Please replace XX with YY" or "Please add ZZ between PP and QQ".
You must also cite reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to, or changed in, any article. - Arjayay (talk) 09:17, 19 August 2016 (UTC)

The Antique Gurjaras and Present Day Gurjars

Historian Vincent A. Smith in his writing clearly connects the present day Gurjars with the antique Gurjaras..

Apart from this the surname used by present day Gurjars are exactly the same as used by the antique Gurjaras such as Pratihars, Tanwar, Chandile, Chawda, Parmar and Solanki etc.The Real Rana (talk) 07:32, 16 September 2016 (UTC)

You are pushing this general argument - a connection between the Gurjars and the Gurjaras - across at least three different article talk pages now. You've been told that it has been discussed previously and that we have to adhere WP:NPOV rather than cherry-pick sources, yet still you continue. Smith is a Raj source (he died in 1920) and thus unreliable anyway but what is worse is the way you are being selective in citing him and not people who differ from his opinion, and you are forum-shopping to get your way. Stop it, please. - Sitush (talk) 07:36, 16 September 2016 (UTC)

Hi for sources about origin of many rajput clans from Gurjars refer the below mentioned citations from notable historians other than the above said historian VA Smith of Raj time-

• Sir Jivanji Jamshedji Modi (1930). Dr. Modi memorial volume: papers on Indo-Iranian and other subjects. Fort Printing Press. p. 521. Rajputana was essentially the country of the Gurjaras, Gujarat came to be called after...

• Royal Asiatic Society of Great Britain and Ireland (1834). Journal of the Royal Asiatic Society of Great Britain and Ireland, Volume 1999. Royal Asiatic Society of Great Britain & Ireland. p. 651. By that marriage Harsha had contracted an alliance with the dominant race of the Gurjaras, of whom the chauhans were a prominent clan.http://books.google.co.in/books?id=TPgAAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA648&lpg

• In fact, according to a number of scholars, the agnikula clans were originally Gurjaras (or Gurjars)[13] and [[Chauhan] was prominent clan of the Gurjars (or Gujjars).[14] Several scholars including D. B. Bhandarkar, Baij Nath Puri and A. F. Rudolf Hoernle believe that the Pratihara were a branch of Gurjars.

• K.M. Munshi (1943). The Glory that was Gurjardesh.

• Royal Asiatic Society of Great Britain and Ireland (1834). Journal of the Royal Asiatic Society of Great Britain & Ireland. Cambridge University Press for the Royal Asiatic Society. p. 648. The Parihars (Pratiharas), as Mr. Bhandarkar rightly points out, were one of the divisions of the Gurjaras.

• Ancient History of Central Asia: Yuezhi-Gurjar History

• History of Ancient India: Earliest Times to 1000 A. D. Page 206

• Book: Martial races of undivided India. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ravipawar89 (talk • contribs) 04:30, 1 November 2016 (UTC)

Hi There, please let me know who do u consider reliable source? The people who have managed to get deleted at least 80% of this article on the basis of the less known historians ( who are generally considered prejudged in favour of a particular social group). Please elaborate how should I assert my argument the right way?The Real Rana (talk) 07:44, 16 September 2016 (UTC)

You will not get your way. It is as simple as that. You are already aware of Origin of the Gurjara-Pratiharas, where various theories of origin and connection are discussed. The information there in itself means that you cannot show your favoured viewpoint because, clearly, there is no certainty. We're dealing with the mists of time! If you want to do promote your own opinion regarding the theories then you will have to find some other place away from Wikipedia. - Sitush (talk) 08:22, 16 September 2016 (UTC)

References

Foreign origins

@Mkrestin: I am afraid your edits give WP:UNDUE prominence to fringe theories or tentative proposals. All the sources use terms like "it is claimed," "believed" or "suggested", which reflect the tentative nature of their suggestions. There are plenty of sources that completely reject the foreign origin theories. Complicating this is the fact that there are plenty of foreign origin theories and no two of them agree with each other. I believe it is best to make a new subsection titled Foreign origin theories and discuss them, but they should not be put up front like you did. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 17:08, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

You should also see Gurjaradesa and the sources cited there. A case can be made that Gurjara was simply the name of a country and all its people were called Gurjaras, their language Gurjari (or Gujri) and these names continued to be used when those people migrated to other places. None of the foreign origin theorists ever managed to explain why the historically unknown migrants, supposedly called Gurjaras, survive till today while all their better known contemporaries like Huns, Scythians etc. disappeared socially. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 17:59, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

Hi, refer below mentioned book that mentions about the Gurjar history this will answer your query on Gurjaradesa and Gurjara and why Gurjars are present today while most notable tribes like Scythians and Huns disappeared .Ravipawar89 (talk) 05:09, 1 November 2016 (UTC)Ravi Panwar Gurjar

@Kautilya3, I agree that subsections can be made for foreign as well as indigenous origin theories.Even what you mentioned is a theory propagated by KM Munshi and it has its criticism as well.It seems more likely that the Gurjars were originally a pastoral people living in and around mount Abu and from there they rose to prominence.This view is supported by Baijnath Puri.thanksMkrestin (talk) 14:16, 30 November 2016 (UTC)

I don't recall mentioning any theory of Munshi. Munshi did mention that when the people of Gurjaradesa migrated to other places they were referred to as "Gurjaras", which is kind of obvious. In fact, if you look at the map on that page, you would note that all the inscriptions that use the term "Gurjara" are from places away from the heartland. Inside the heartland, nobody was specifically referred to as "Gurjara" (because everybody was a "Gurjara").

You should also see this thread [3]. Most of the early historians limited themselves to reading historical documents and they didn't manage to integrate the economic and sociological data with "history". That is not true any more. Chattopadhyaya's first chapter is on the development of irrigation in Rajasthan. Once you have this kind of data, the whole picture changes. The modern approach to history is entirely different from the history of the colonial times. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 16:07, 30 November 2016 (UTC)

Bhaij nath Puri is modern historian .I am not denying the theory you are mentioning.But it is also one of the theories .For example , only Gurjars in Rajasthan are called Gurjars , not other castes .You can find many people of jats or other castes around Delhi whose ancestors migrated from Rajasthan (historical Gurjarata) in old times but they are not known as Gurjars.Thank youMkrestin (talk) 17:00, 30 November 2016 (UTC)

On similar notes, everyone living in Hindustan is not Hindu but it shows that dominant population of Hindustan is Hindu.Informally , Haryana is referred as Jatland , but obviously not everyone is Jat there but again it shows that jats are a dominating population of haryana.So simialry Gurjars have been dominating population of Gurjaratra-bhumi and whence the name.T thank you Mkrestin (talk) 17:22, 30 November 2016 (UTC)

• Puri did his PhD in the 1950s. It got published in 1957.
• The term "Gurjara" has gone out of use, probably well before 1000 AD. That is because various clans developed and started using the clan labels, regions developed their own identity and gave rise to region labels like "Marwadi"etc., and the "Hinduised" Gurjaras also used their caste identities. Only the pastoral people continue to use the term "Gurjar", and those of them that entered late into the caste society have turned it into a "caste". The Jats were the same. They were pastoral people in Sindh at the time of Qasim's invasion, and then turned their identity into a "caste". But we can't project the present situation back into history and imagine that it was so in all times. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 17:35, 30 November 2016 (UTC)

It's not that all Gurjars are pastoralist .in fact majority of Gurjars of Rajasthan , western UP , Haryana etc are landowning "caste".Gurjars of Himalayan regions are nomadic and pastoral tribe.There will always be pro and against arguments for every theory so it's best to sum up all under foreign and indigenous origin subsections. Thank youMkrestin (talk) 17:57, 30 November 2016 (UTC)

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GURGAON NOT DOMINATED BY GUJJARS CHECK WIKI GURGAON

GURGAON NOT DOMINATED BY GUJJARS CHECK WIKI GURGAON?????????????

Yes it is dominated by gurjar

Jogindergurjar (talk) 03:20, 20 January 2017 (UTC)

Muslim gujjar of U.P.

1. The Gujjar of Awadh :

The Gujjar of Awadh are found mainly in the districts of Raebareli, Sultanpur, Barabanki, Gorakhpur and Bahraich . They claim to have settled in the Awadh region, after the fleeing the countryside near Delhi from the forces of Tamelane. The Awadh Gujjar are small to medium sized farmers, often inhabiting multi-caste villages. Their main gotras are the Ekkisa, kharroha, pasuwar, kori, Chauhan, Godha, Ghongar, Ghori, Kathariya, Muker, Nagarpanthi, Panwar and Sengarwar. The community do not practice gotra exogamy, and marry close kin. They speak Awadhi, but most also speak Urdu. Historically, many were tenant farmers or dairymen, but the abolishment of the zamindari system has led to redistribution of the land, and many are now owner cultivators. In Raebareli District, they make up a quarter of the Muslim population of that district, and it is always considered the centre of the Gujjar of Awadh. They are found mainly in Salon and Maharajganj tehsils, especially in Rokha. While in Sultanpur District, they are found chiefly in Jagdishpur, Gaura Jamun and Amethi. In Amethi constituency, there is 4.5 lacs Muslim Gujjar votes. The Gujjar are largely Sunni, but many in Barabanki District are Shia.

2. The Muslim Gujjar of the Doab :

The Muslim Gujjar of the Doab region are found in the districts of Saharanpur, Muzzafarnagar, Meerut, Bulandshahr and Aligarh. They were said to have peacefully converted to Islam during the reign of the Mughal Emperor Aurangzeb. Gujjars traditionally belonged to the OBC. Some Muslim Gujjars are cattle herders, breeders and land owners. They are engaged in the production and distribution of milk and milk products. The Muslim Gujjars are small and medium-sized farmers, and cultivate wheat, paddy, maize, millets, pulses, sugar cane and vegetables. They also grow fodder for their cattle. Their customs are similar to the other Muslim cultivating castes, such as the Ranghar and Muley Jat. They are an endogamous community, and practice gotra exogamy. Their main gotras are the Batar, Panwar, Nagar, Nirbaan, Tak, Banja, Bhati, Chandel, Chechi, Dodhar, Gorsi, Jinar, Katarya, Kasana, Kasave, Poswal, Rawal and Tomar. Each of these clans is equal status, and they all intermarry.[3] The Gujjar are Sunni Muslims, and many especially those in Saharanpur District have been affected by the reformist Deobandi sect, while those in other districts are Barelvi. They speak Khari boli and most educated Gujjar speak now Urdu.

In Saharanpur District they are found mainly in Nakur and Saharanpur tehsils, and Nakur was at one time known as Gujrat or the land of the Gujjars. In neighbouring Muzzafarnagar District Muslim Gujjar villages are found mainly in the valley of the Yamuna. A small number of Muslim Gujjar are also found in neighbouring districts of Meerut, Bulandshahr and Aligarh in the Doab, and the districts of Bijnor and Moradabad in Rohilkhand.

Srawat98 (talk) 17:53, 12 February 2017 (UTC)

Pakistani Gurjars

It is surprising to see nothing on Pakistani Gujjars. Large concentration of Gujjars in Hazara district of Khyber Pakhtunkawa, Northern Punjab, especially Gujrat district, which is heavily populated by Gujjars. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Utosheeb (talk • contribs) 16:00, 20 July 2017 (UTC)

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Semi-protected edit request on 9 December 2017

Rooney10057 (talk) 22:10, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Sakura Cartelet^Talk 02:43, 10 December 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 March 2018

.In Abhaypur (SOHNA)last of 18th century There was a famous personality named SHEMSHERA KHATANA (BOHRA) was popular because of his nature of helping to the desired people. It was said that in his time the area was full of prosperity. Now the 6th generation of Shemshera Bohra lived in the village named Khera Khalilpur and Gangoli, known as Bohra Family.§ Naveenkhatana (talk) 08:21, 11 March 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: as you have not requested a specific change in the form "Please replace XXX with YYY" or "Please add ZZZ between PPP and QQQ".
More importantly, you have not cited reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to, or changed in, any article. - Arjayay (talk) 13:48, 11 March 2018 (UTC)

Gurjar clan

Peelwan,nagar, add this Harsh12gurjar (talk) 16:05, 24 July 2018 (UTC)

Not done: as you have not requested a specific change in the form "Please replace XXX with YYY" or "Please add ZZZ between PPP and QQQ".
More importantly, you have not cited reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to, or changed in, any article. Regards, Yamaguchi先生 (talk) 20:17, 24 July 2018 (UTC)

Manish khari Gurjar

Gurjars have many more villages in Delhi just like khari Baisoya dedha tawar Tanwar Baisla etc. Manish khari Gurjar (talk) 14:18, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 November 2018

Gujjar is not other backward class(OBC). so correct it UsmanOfficial (talk) 18:24, 9 November 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. DannyS712 (talk) 18:35, 9 November 2018 (UTC)

Gujarati

change ((Gujarati)) to ((Gujarati language|Gujarati))

 Done - assuming you meant the use in the infobox - did others DaBs as well - Arjayay (talk) 13:53, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

RADHA WAS GUJRI???????

RADHA WAS GUJRI??????? WHO SAID WHERE IS REFRENCE? AND NAND BABA WAS AHIR NOT GUJJAR , PURAN AND ALL HOLY BOOKS HAVE MENTIONED THAT???? i checked the refrence however it doesn't take me anywhere, for the matter of fact my research on google about radha was gujri is nill , no where mentioned.. REPLY TO U BY KG;

HAN RADHA AND YESHODHA GURJAR THI ,SHAYAD TUM NE HOLY BOOK PADI NAHI HE BUS APNI JEALOUSY SHOW KAR RAHE HO IDIOT ,KRISHNA WERE USED TO PLAY WITH GURJAR GIRLS NOT WITH YADU GIRLS SEE HISTORY CLEARLY .I CAN GIVE YOU 1000 PROOFS WHICH PROOVES THAT RADHA AND YESHODHA GURJAR THI ,AND THINK THERE IS A CLAN OF GURJAR WHICH IS YEDHUVASHI .

|}

Buddy Do you know that Rajputs claims that they were yaduvanshi not ahirs. First prove that you guys are Yaduvanshi PawanDayma99 (talk) 02:25, 11 October 2019 (UTC)

Edit Request -Some people desperately wants to change history with baseless theories of their own

""""According to this view, between 1 BCE and 1 CE, the ancient ancestors of Gurjars came in multiple waves of migration and they were initially accorded status as high-caste warriors in the Hindu fold in the North-Western regions (modern Rajasthan and Gujarat).[15] Aydogdy Kurbanov states that some Gurjars, along with people from northwestern India, merged with the Hephthalites to become the Rajput clan.[16]"""""

What rubbish is this. Who's view is this?.I guess their own.PLZ remove such stupid statements. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sps999 (talk • contribs) 10:48, 11 September 2019 (UTC)

@Sps999: Mention what you wish to be changed in the format of "please change X to Y". No heed is paid to original research sans reliable sources. Please refrain from using terms such as "baseless theories" when information is properly cited in the article. --Tamravidhir (talk) 11:07, 11 September 2019 (UTC)

@Tamravidhir This article includes a list of references, but its sources remain unclear because it has insufficient inline citations. Please help to improve this article by introducing more precise citations. (August 2015) (Learn how and when to remove this template message). What this message at the top of wikki page means to you?

Sps999 you need to find sources to support that this information and the sources used are factually wrong. This can be done by finding sources to prove a different ancestry for the Gurjars and by finding sources that show the source used is unreliable. So far you have not done this and before changes can be made, sources need to be found. I advise that you find the sources, and if you do find the sources then reopen the edit request in a "please change X to Y" format. Dreamy Jazz 🎷 ^{talk to me | my contributions} 12:13, 11 September 2019 (UTC)

@Dreamy Jazz:First paragraph of 'origin' is not supported by any reference or citation,it is just written as one's view. How can it be mentioned without any information source. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sps999 (talk • contribs) 12:39, 11 September 2019 (UTC)

It is the view expressed in citations 15 and 16, as your quotation above clearly shows. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 18:41, 11 September 2019 (UTC)

I am not against any clan but history is not something to be twisted to make people feel good. The first para of "origin" has no historical reference, citations 15 and 16 @Kautilya3/ have no primary source.It is view based on assumption that 'Gurjara' in 'Gurjara Pratihara' represent gujjar community ,which is also written on first page: second paragraph, which is absolutely incorrect.The so-called "Gurjara-Pratiharas" never called themselves by that name. They only used the term "Pratihara." People are already confused about this and you guys are confusing them even more. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sps999 (talk • contribs) 13:42, 14 September 2019 (UTC)

What we have told you, User:Sps999, is that per Wikipedia's policy of verifiability you are required to provide a reliable source to support your arguments/information. Original research and non-neutral point of view is strictly prohibited on Wikipedia. The citations #15 and #16 are prima facie reliable, so please provide a reliable source to counter the information provided by them. --Tamravidhir (talk) 05:03, 15 September 2019 (UTC)

@Tamravidhir:

             
             
         And the references #15 and #16 which you are referring again and again" Islamization in Modern South Asia: Deobandi Reform and the Gujjar Response" is about the islamization theory and its response from community.Here response doesn't give any historical claim.

@Sps999: You had no consensus here to go ahead with the edits to the article. Irrespective, deletion of maintenance template amounts to disruptive editing. Also, you have failed to state your edit request in the format of "please change X to Y" format. --Tamravidhir (talk) 08:37, 16 September 2019 (UTC)

Guys let me clear that no one is actually native Indian because if you read geography then you came to know that today southern part of India was once part of the African Continent which merged with India became part of it forming the Himalayan Range. Which proves that South Indians were not natives too. Historians also claim that Aryans also came to India from Central Asia they were not Native Indians. And Lastly our Vedas mention about some Janpadas which also includes Part Central Asia. Hope that helps. PawanDayma99 (talk) 02:35, 11 October 2019 (UTC)

The foreign origin theory was invented by colonial historians for people of india to accept them, they interpreted history to show foreign origin of indian people to make them feel outsiders like them ,so please don't get confused by these theories. Please remove this paragraph

""""According to this view, between 1 BCE and 1 CE, the ancient ancestors of Gurjars came in multiple waves of migration and they were initially accorded status as high-caste warriors in the Hindu fold in the North-Western regions (modern Rajasthan and Gujarat).[15] Aydogdy Kurbanov states that some Gurjars, along with people from northwestern India, merged with the Hephthalites to become the Rajput clan.[16]"""""

Gujjar Chauhan of (Poonch District) Kashmir

Who are the Gujjar Chauhan of Kashmir region?

I have read several theories so far.

1. They came from Georgia (Gurjia/Gurjistan)
2. They are the descendant of Yuezhi (West China/Central Asia)
3. They are the descendants of 'Alexander The GreatSikandare e Azam'
4. They are the natives of 'Northern Areas of India/PakistanPunjab'

Which theory makes the sense and why? Is there any valid theory supporting the Origin of Chauhan - Gujjars?

Buddy we are not descendents of Sikander the great. Yes they are natives of northern India because at that time the northern part was called Gurjratra or Gurjar Desh. The word you said Yuezhi which later became chechi is not only used by Gurjars but Rajputs too. I don't know they came from Georgia or not but if you read Vedas then you came to know that Central Asian was also a part of India. Aryans too came to India from Central Asian that means they aren't native Indians too. The southern part of India which break from African Continent and then merged with Asia that's why Himalayan Mountain Range exist that means South Indians were also not Indians. Buddy please read History and Geography of Indian Subcontinent that will help you. Lastly the chauhan Gurjars of kairana claim that they were descendents of PrithviRaj Chauhans younger brother Hariraj. For your kind knowledge not only we had Chauhans but we also had Bhati, Rathi, Nagar, Chechi, Rawal, Rawat, Parmar, Pratihar, Tanwar, etc. Hope that will increase your Knowledge.🙂🙂🙂 PawanDayma99 (talk) 02:20, 11 October 2019 (UTC)

The last theory sounds more plausible, i believe they indigenous Indians. You're average Gujar doesn't differ much in looks in comparison to a Punjabi or a Bihari. This article needs a clean up starting with the removal of colonial pet theories. Akmal94 (talk) 04:24, 30 November 2019 (UTC)

The rebellion of 1857

Many Gurjars were hanged to a tree as, they all participated in the revolt and many Gurjars from Dadri , meerut and many other cities of Uttar Pradesh and many more states Harshitbhati2006jik (talk) 06:06, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

References

Clean up flag

I tidied up a lot of the matter of fact parts of the article as well as the famour gujjars. After that? Personally, I feel like the straight list of subclans really gives a flavour of the byzantine indian caste-ology and adds to the article.

Yes they are very correct

Harshitbhati2006jik (talk) 06:07, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 29 February 2020

DEEPAK BHEDI GUJJAR (talk) 07:53, 29 February 2020 (UTC)BHEDI GURJARS

 Not done: as you have not requested a change.
Please request your change in the form "Please replace XXX with YYY" or "Please add ZZZ between PPP and QQQ".
Please also cite reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to, or changed in, any article. - Arjayay (talk) 10:18, 29 February 2020 (UTC)

Genetics

Suggestion to add a genetics section as there is not much information available and there have not been many genetic studies done on the Gujjar population. I have added references for everything. More information can be gathered online and the section can be further improved in the future. Donnyexcellence (talk) 11:18, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

A study conducted by the CDFD (Centre for DNA Fingerprinting and Diagnostics) concluded that members of the Gujjar community in Jammu and Kashmir were found to be genetically much closer to the Pashtuns (an eastern Iranic ethnic group) found mainly in Afghanistan and Pakistan than to other ethnic groups in India. The CDFD analyzed the genetic makeup of 69 Gujjars from Jammu and Kashmir and found that Gujjars did not cluster closely with samples from Assam, Bengal, Jharkhand, Karnataka, Maharashtra or Rajasthan. Thus making them a distinct ethnic group in South Asia.

Male-specific markers called Y-STR which were compared with 37 different population groups in Central, South, and West Asia, as well as in Russia and Europe, found that the Gujjars of Jammu and Kashmir were genetically closer to the Pashtuns of the Baghlan and Kunduz provinces in Afghanistan as well as to the Pashtuns and Sindhis in Pakistan.

The R1a haplogroup was found in high frequencies of the male samples gathered in the Gujjar population of Jammu and Kashmir followed by the L and H haplogroups.

References

We do not do genetics in articles about individual castes. This has been discussed at WT:INB. - Sitush (talk) 11:31, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

Did not find anywhere on WT:INB that states we are not allowed to talk about genetics for individual castes. Moreover this article is also part of the WikiProject Pakistan where genetics information is allowed. Donnyexcellence (talk) 18:06, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

Made a post Wikipedia:Teahouse#Genetics_Discussion_For_Castes_In_South_Asia feel free to respond. Donnyexcellence (talk) 18:06, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

Done. - Sitush (talk) 18:11, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

Could I make a separate page about Gujjar genetics then ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Donnyexcellence (talk • contribs) 18:16, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

No. That would be deleted as a WP:POVFORK. - Sitush (talk) 05:42, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

WP:QS & WP:NOTRS — cited for solid claims in article

Hello! Below mentioned are a few sentences from the article with the references provided (exactly as they are):

1. A study by Gujjar Scholar Javaid Rahi on the origin of the word Gurjar suggested that 'Gujjar' is the same word as Turkish ' Göçer' (nomad), and that Gurjar or Gurjara are its Sanskritized forms.. He revealed that some part of the Gujjar tribe, presently known as Konar-Göçer and Göçer Arıcılık still exits in Turkey.

2. A 2009 study conducted by Tribal Research and Cultural Foundation, under the supervision of Gurjar scholar Javaid Rahi, claimed that the word "Gojar" has a Central Asian Turkic origin, written in romanized Turkish as Göçer. The study claimed that according to the new research, the Gurjar race "remained one of the most vibrant identity of Central Asia in BC era and later ruled over many princely states in northern India for hundred of years."

References

This goes without saying that all sources with the exception of one (article from academia.edu) are WP:QS and WP:NOTRS. Also, I do believe that Javaid Rahi is a knowledgeable scholar of the Gurjar subject. The issue here are only the sources cited. So, I suggest that we keep the content (fully or partially) that has been cited/build from the above mentioned 7 references only if we can cite it (fully or partially) from WP:RS (replace the 6 WP:NOTRS sources). Thanks, Мастер Шторм (talk) 14:10, 17 September 2020 (UTC) (added a few words for more clarity) Мастер Шторм (talk) 16:13, 17 September 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 June 2021

Cringeboy07 (talk) 18:47, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

A study by Gujjar Scholar Javaid Rahi on the origin of the word Gurjar suggested that 'Gujjar' is the same word as Turkish ' Göçer' (nomad), He revealed that some part of the Gujjar tribe, presently known as Konar-Göçer and Göçer Arıcılık still exits in Turkey. this is a fake theory

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 19:11, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

References