Talk:Grand chancellor (China)

Xu Jie

Xu Jie was the Ming Dynasty chancellor who succeeded Yan Song and mentored Zhang Juzheng. Unfortunately there is also a Chinese-Polish female table tennis player with the same name, which is why his link currently goes to her profile. This is not an error and when a page about Xu Jie is created the link will be changed to the right page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.173.9.49 (talk) 11:05, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

Move title

This office and title predates the unification of China under the Qin, therefore it is incorrect to translate it as 'Chancellor of China'. May I suggest that Chancellor (China) is a more appropriate heading? Cripipper (talk) 14:26, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

Referenced

A good faith search for references for this article was not successful in finding support for most of the claims in the article. I have made a start at building a referenced article in keeping with expectations of Wikipedia The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth. Per The burden of evidence lies with the editor who adds or restores material. All quotations and any material challenged or likely to be challenged should be attributed to a reliable, published source using an inline citation I am removing most of the rest of the content of the article and would ask that in keeping with wikipedia policy references be provided for any additions or replacement of text in this article. Thanks Jeepday (talk) 15:13, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

How did you search for the references? Most of the content have references. Why not check the individual articles for the chancellors? They were apparently Chancellors in the Chinese history. I will revert your edit. --Neo-Jay (talk) 16:12, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Lü Buwei was not a chancellor during the Qin Dynasty. The Qin dynasty began in 221. I also question the date of his last year. He should be moved to the list below, of Notable chancellors in Chinese history. Bao Pu (talk) 11:03, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Needs cleanup

Generally, but specifically there's a separate article on prime minister (Chu) that should be folded in or well referenced here & the article on King Wu of Zhou has him tooling around ancient China with a prime minister well before Qin as well. Obviously, we're dealing with different positions here, but it's worth it to go through and catalogue them on a single page. — LlywelynII 17:19, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

Yes, we need a catalogue. This article currently blends the notion of a highest ranking officer (宰相 zaixiang) with the formal title used in Qin-Han times (丞相 chengxiang, or "Imperial Chancellor"). We should really split the article so that a "zaixiang" article lists the highest positions in each dynasty's bureaucracy (including Chu's Prime minister lingyin and Qin-Han's chengxiang) and a "chengxiang" article detailing the Qin-Han position only. Right now it's a mess. _dk (talk) 19:14, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

Related Titles

There were at least three who held the title Chancellor of the State (Xiàngguó 相國) rather than that of (Chéngxiàng 丞相). One of them, Dong Zhuo of the Han Dynasty, has been removed because he was Chancellor of the State (from 189-190) and not Chancellor. The other two (not previously mentioned in this article) are Sima Zhao of Cao Wei (who held this rank in 260, then 263-265) and his son Sima Yan, who held the rank in 265 prior to his assuming the throne and creating the Western Jin Dynasty.

In Eastern Wu, Lu Kai and Wan Yu held the ranks of Chancellor on the Left (Zuǒ Chéngxiàng 左丞相) and Chancellor on the Right (Yòu Chéngxiàng 右丞相), respectively; Lu Kai from 266-269, Wan Yu from 266-272. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.91.204.95 (talk) 19:29, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

To rename the article into "Chancellor of China" or "Imperial chancellor of China"

The most common translation is "Chancellor" and not "Councilor". And even in the current article the position is always named "Chancellor". Therefore I propose to rename the article into "Chancellor of China" or "Imperial chancellor of China". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.13.133.107 (talk) 21:24, 8 July 2017 (UTC)

Where is your evidence? With the Three Departments and Six Ministries, the Chancellery was only 1 of the 3 central departments, and the grand councilor during the Tang/Song was a leader of the joint Secretariat-Chancellery. In Ming (Qing?) the title is the head of the Secretariat and is usually translated as "Grand Secretariat". "Grand councilor" is the translation given in A Dictionary of Official Titles in Imperial China by Charles O. Hucker, which is I think the most authoritative English-language work in this field. The Cambridge History of China Volume 5 (Song dynasty) published in 2009 uses "chief councilor" throughout. Volume 3 (Tang dynasty) published in 1979 seems to use "chief minister" throughout. There's no universally accepted translation but I would choose a title based on WP:COMMONNAME + WP:NATURAL, and after considering all dynasties and not just the dynasties before Sui which I think is what the original article creator had in mind. Pinging User:Azload who moved the article. Timmyshin (talk) 05:08, 26 October 2017 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Li Si.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 06:22, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

An explanation of the differences between 丞相，宰相， and 内阁首辅 , etc is necessary.

It is therefore inaccurate to list these as alternative names for 宰相. 宰相 is more of a concept as it refers to the highest ranking official below the emperor, and encompasses positions such as 丞相 and 内阁首辅。 丞相 may only be referred to as a 宰相 when they have the authority to decide what happens. 内阁首辅 may be referred to as 宰相 only when they have a considerable amount of power. 135.0.8.202 (talk) 22:06, 2 May 2024 (UTC)