Talk:English country house/Archive 1

Archive 1

Drop "The" from the title

"The" should be dropped from the title: at Wikipedfia it gives an impression of being a book title. Sooner rather than later I'd say. Any objections? --Wetman 22:12, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

No objection from me. Thryduulf 22:20, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

None from me. Only problem is.....I set up a redirect from English country house so can we just change it?Giano 22:37, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Done. The word on the street (=on IRC) is, you can move a page to overwrite a redirect provided the redirect hasn't been edited after being created. This is the first chance I've had to test that adage... what do you know, it worked! :-) Bishonen | Talk 22:44, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I didn;t know that either. I was all set to put a request at WP:RM. Thryduulf 22:56, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Aye, that's a good thing to know. Thank you. --Wetman 22:46, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Lead image

Although the new lead image goes well with the article, I think its not the right one for the lead. I think the article needs its primary illustration to be of a large, grand, well known country house. Thryduulf 17:00, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I take your point, but the whole point of this page is to be about the smaller lesser known houses (I deliberately left the image house anonymous), where the rural Squires ran the show, rather than the great palaces where the great and good of the nation spent a couple of months amusing themselves. There is already a Country house page devoted to these wonders, here the emphasis is to be more about social and "country" matters than high architecture. The problem will be finding enough of the lesser known. Perhaps the page needs 'another' name change? but it needs some thought, we can't keep changing it. There is some debate on direction if you are interested in contributing in a collaberation at [1]. Giano 17:19, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC)

What about moving the page to Manor house, which is quite an undeveloped stub at the moment. Then starting off with the original Great Halls and tracing the expansion and evolution from there? Giano 10:43, 6 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I've gone and been bold, and changed the image to something I think captures the caption perfectly, covering both the house and surrounding gardens; it's located in Ireland but is still of the English style, so I don't think that will be a problem. Schcambo (talk) 13:51, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Please revert. This is a page about ENGLISH houses not Irish. The whole concept was entirely different different. Irish houses were frequently only used as sporting estates by the English aristocracy, they we not retreats from London, and more to the point they were not English. Giano (talk) 14:13, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

If you'd read the Powerscourt page, firstly you would see that it was permanently occupied by the Viscount Powerscourt, so it was not just a 'retreat' for the English aristocracy. Secondly, it was built in the Palladian style, which was popular in England during the 17th and 18th centuries. Thirdly, it had a place at Country house, which grouped country houses in both Britain and Ireland, until you deleted that page in favor of this one. It is for all respects and purposes a traditional, even stereotypical, English country house, a tradition which did also exist in Ireland due to the Plantations. Schcambo (talk) 14:31, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

I have never deleted any pages anywhere! - Powerscourt is not English! That is all that really matters. It is not a traditional, even stereotypical, English country house, for the simple reason that it is not English! Now, the previous lead image may not have been ideal, and do replace it if you can find better, but please use an English one. Giano (talk) 16:32, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes, you have, you deleted Country house and replaced it with a redirect, here. Also, if these houses are specifically located in England and England alone, then why is there a link to the Scottish National Trust at the bottom of the page? (And I'm not complaining about the link, I think it should be there.) You have to remember, these houses may have been of the English style but they were built throughout the United Kingdom, which did contain Ireland at that time. Schcambo (talk) 17:42, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Just to add to that point, I actually think this page should be moved over to simply Country house; wouldn't this be the most accurate way of doing things? Schcambo (talk) 17:55, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Do whatever you feel is best. The page is not deleted all you have to do is lift the redirect, not the same as deleted at all. Move this page, move that page - whatever you want. If you think Powerscourt is a good example of Palladianism why not plonk it in the lead there too? Just help yourself. BTW, I have read Powerscourt one or two errors there, you might like to ckeck out. Giano (talk) 18:10, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Wow, and here's me trying to assume good faith. Be sarcastic all you want; the most ironic thing is you haven't given me any reasons why Powerscourt isn't a perfect example of a country house - you just seem unable to get past it not being in England. And yeah, as long as there aren't any objections, I think it would be best that this page is moved to simply Country house. Schcambo (talk) 18:35, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Me! I object. It is important with architectural articles to first define scope lest we find ourselves discussing the nature of the universe within a few pages. Giano here has clearly limited scope to include English country houses and defines them as those not simply of belonging to the aristocracy - which would include a vast number across the then empire - but used in that particular manner, as an alternating alternative to town living in London. We have a very large number of articles at wikipedia, there is surely room for English country house and Irish country house? Both constructions, I assume, derive from subtly different origins and have considerably different histories. Rather than crow-barring your rather nice image and link into here - can I suggest you make a stab at Irish country houses, or undo the redirect at Country house and replace it with the list with main article links to here and Irish country houses? regards --Joopercoopers (talk) 21:55, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

PS, it is a very nice image though - I'm sure we could find a prominent, appropriate use for it - What camera do you have - I ask because I've just bought my first Nikon SLR and am looking for someone who might be able to advise me on photography. --Joopercoopers (talk) 22:01, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

If you feel an Irish country house is the best image to lead ENGLISH country house then who am I to object. If that means changing the name of the page just so you can have your pretty picture there then so be it - go ahead. 19:05, 28 January 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Giano II (talk • contribs)

Tell me then, what is the difference between, say, Powerscourt and Holkham Hall? If the only reason you can give is that one is in Ireland and one is in England, then I'm pretty sure they should both simply be on a page called Country house. I mean, we don't have English county town, Irish county town, Welsh county town, and Scottish county town, do we? No, because they mean the exact same thing, only they are in different locations. Schcambo (talk) 19:39, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Well, for one thing, Powerscourt was the official seat of the Viscount Powerscourt, unlike most English country houses, and it is essentially a renovation of a castle. From the Powerscourt Estate article, it appears that the estate was considerably more than just a country getaway for the landed gentry; it was a recognized seat of power and (at least at one point) a location of military significance, unlike the English country houses described in that article. I do like the photo, but it really doesn't fit in the lead photo position (for this or any other article) - in order to be properly appreciated, it needs more page width than is appropriate at the top of an article. It is well sized in the Powerscourt article. Risker (talk) 23:04, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Gentry?

Since when were the landed gentry not part of the aristocracy? (ungigned by)User: 71.117.72.146

• Since the first day a "Gentleman" was allowed to own an estate, live in his own house, ride to hounds, be a magistrate and generally live a comfortable wealthy lifestyle, while at the same time not being a member, or related to any member, of the peerage. Giano | talk 07:33, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Compton Wynyates.gif

The image Image:Compton Wynyates.gif is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check

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This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --03:02, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Image issues addressed. Risker (talk) 02:25, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Conflation with Stately home

I would suggest that the term English Country House covers the whole range of medium to large houses positioned in the country, from old rectory, manor house right up to the stately home. It appears some contributors are prejudiced against the latter term, which is the correct word for the truly palatial country houses, numbering only about 30. To have a lead image of Holkham Hall, probably one of the 10 greatest stately homes, as illustrative of the Country House is misleading. See talk page of Stately home for background to this issue. I quote from the autobiography of John, 13th Duke of Bedford "A Silver Plated Spoon", London 1959, p.2 of chap.1: "Woburn is one of the loveliest of England's stately homes". The term is indeed in widespread use. Clearly the non-royal residential palaces of England, in essence what these 30 or so houses are, need a term differentiating them from the georgian 6 bedroomed country house.(Lobsterthermidor (talk) 12:11, 24 March 2011 (UTC))

Sorry for asking a stupid question, but I just wanted to be clear: you are suggesting that stately homes should not be covered in this article? Nev1 (talk) 12:28, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

No. What I am suggesting is that the term CH does indeed cover a huge range of building types, from stately home, used for the 30 or so truly palatial residences down to the relatively modest 6-10 bedroom "Old Rectory", the quintessential English country house so often portrayed in the literature of say, Agatha Christie, and featuring in the likes of "Midsomer Murders" etc. The term is far too wide to be of great use as a definite category. The problem with this article is that it seems to define the CH as a stately home only, i.e. it concentrates on the very top members of the category. I would like to see a broader view taken, and certainly see a more representative CH as the lead image, not one of the grandest 10 houses in England, Holkham Hall, which is a stately home. Ideally I would like to see this article develop to attempt to categorise the "country house" into sub-categories of Stately home, great country house, grand country house, mansion, manor house, gentleman's country residence, old rectory, old vicarage, etc.,(categories only suggestions, full of complexities I know). (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 12:46, 24 March 2011 (UTC))

I'm afraid what is a "stately home" and what is not, is purely a matter of personal opinion. Please see Talk:Stately home (final section)to see where this matter is going. Giacomo Returned 19:01, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

regarding "some contributors are prejudiced against the latter term." I can't speak for all of them but my problem with the old "stately home" article (and list) was that it seemed the supporters were attempting to create a definition that was not backed by any reliable sources and was also a definition that conflicted with common usage of the term. It would have turned into a messy, and thankless, battle of deleting a sentence or paragraph at a time end enforcing WP:BURDEN for attempts to reinstate or add material without citations.

Lobsterthermidor, it seems like you have some good ideas. I'd strongly suggest your first task is to gather up reliable sources and to use those as the foundation for any material you add to Wikipedia. Don't add the material just because know the sources exist. Claiming "there's thousands of books" does not cut it. Ideally, you'd figure out which of those thousands of books are regarded as authoritative, and thus cited, by many other authors, and to use those as the foundation for any material you add. If you do that, and the stately homes or another well sourced section of this article starts to overwhelm the article then people will not see a problem with splitting the content off to its own article assuming that content is sufficiently notable that it can be a standalone article. The foundation of any good, or stately, Wikipedia home starts with citations. --Marc Kupper|talk 18:22, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

• Lobsterthermidor, you do have some good ideas, and I have no objection to you re-creating the page if you can find references defining exactly what is a stately home, but with Category: Stately homes looking doomed [2] there is no sense keeping the page in it's present form alive. This is not a pile-on, but a sincere concern about a page misinforming - I really don't know for sure what a "stately home" is and I don't think you do eithet, but I do know what a country house is. I found a long forgotten book in a my own library today Historic Houses: Conversations in Stately Homes and that finally pursuaded me to make the move. I'm also a little concerned about this page too.Giacomo Returned 18:46, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

That can be salvaged - Great household might be a better title as it is, & it is too recentist, with the emphasis on "especially those of the turn of the 20th century" throughout. Downtrousers Abbey indeed. Johnbod (talk) 01:16, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

Probably you are right. However. I'm not sure how much of the info is correct anyway - how may ouseholds one wonders had a Master of the Horse and Master of the Hounds as far as I'm concerned, outside of the Royal Household, it is Head Groom and Kenel Huntsman - I think whoever write it was getting their centuries and countries mixed up - anyway I don't do servants, so I'll leave it. Downtrousers Abbey indeed indeed, I hope that is now not going to be a referemce, very entertaining, but full if mistakes - for a start, no one knew their place and stopped in it - the only one who seemed to know it was the dog. Giacomo Returned 07:23, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

rewrite

I have started a rewrite of this page (yet to be finished) and have redirected stately home to it - the present stately home page was so full of POV and unrefenced dodgy facts it could not be allowed to remain part of Wikipedia. Giacomo Returned 14:07, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

Merge here of Stately home

The future of Stately home has been widely discussed. The Category:Stately homes has recently been deleted at CfD. The article was changed to a redirect to here, but that was reversed by a user who appears to have a sense of ownership of Stately home. That article is about a topic that is not well defined and not notable in itself. The only reference of note is a dictionary definition. In spite of wide discussion no articles that discuss the term have been found. It has two other references. The second is a note, not a reference, and it has been shown on the talk page to be false. The third reference simply supports the use of a French term for houses in France. I suggest you read the Nominator's rationale for deletion of the category, linked above. Everything that is said about the category applies to the article. I did consider proposing Stately home for deletion, but there is material that should be merged. It should not however exist as a separate article. Please discuss the merge below and do not remove the merge tags until this discussion have been closed by a neutral editor.

• Support merge as above. --Bduke (Discussion) 22:35, 23 April 2011 (UTC)
• Redirect - Rather than approve a "merge" I would rather there be a redirect pending the availability of editors willing to rebuild the article. The term Stately home appears to be notable and is covered by works such as:
  • The stately homes of England by Llewellynn Frederick William Jewitt and Samuel Carter Hall (1874)
  • Stately homes in America from colonial times to the present day by Harry William Desmond and Herbert David Croly (1903)
  • The royal palaces, historic castles and stately homes of Great Britain; by John Geddie (1913)
  • The royal palaces, historic castles and stately homes of Great Britain: ninety-seven illustrations by John Geddie (1913)
  • Stately homes of California by Porter Garnett (1915)
  • Bright Tapestry: The Story of the Stately Homes of England by Margaret Mary Pearson (1956)
  • Stately homes in colour by A F Kersting (1962)
  • Stately Homes (Discovering) by Amoret Scott and Christopher Scott (May 1973)
  • Debrett's Stately Homes of Britain by Sibylla J. Flower (Apr 1985)
  • The Fall and Rise of the Stately Home by Peter Mandler (1999)

The older books in the list above are available on Google Books meaning they are widely available. The main issue with the previous Stately Home article was editor with WP:OWN issues and who was adding his/her own opinions to the article (and Wikipedia). The editor was unwilling to cite reliable sources. The result was that the Stately Home article had multiple, and serious issues. The "fix" was to wipe out the article by redirecting it to English country house. I've started assembling some sources to rebuild the Stately Home article in a form that's thoroughly based on source material. Once I have something that'll work as a stub article I'd put that up over the direct. It may be a couple of weeks before I put up a stub and so am fine with a redirect. Of course, if anyone's willing to take a stab at a new article I'll fully support the endeavor as long as all material added is based on, and cites, reliable sources. There is also a modern usage of the term in "Stately Home Industry" and I'm hoping to find reliable sources that cover this. --Marc Kupper|talk 23:22, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

Look how old most of these are! The question is not if the term is notable, which it is, but if it is the best title for an (this) article, which it isn't. An article on the stately homes industry would be welcome, and might use that title, but "stately home" itself is best covered here, see below. Johnbod (talk) 00:41, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

I chose to include those older works to show that the term has been of interest and written about for well over 100 years. If you want modern then how about England's Hideaways: Discovering Enchanting Rooms, Stately Manor Houses, and Country Cottages by Meg Nolan van Reesema (March 15, 2011)? A quick check finds 89 books published about stately homes since the year 2000. The problem has not been lack of potential source material but rather a failure to use and cite them.

Can someone show, via reliable sources, that "stately home" equals "English country house" close enough that the articles should be merged? If reliable sources exist that show this then I'll instantly support the merge. If not, then I want to leave the door open for separate articles via a redirect. --Marc Kupper|talk 08:33, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

• Merge per comments at the other page and at Cfd: "No satisfactory definition distinguishing these from other country houses has been produced, or is likely to be. The term is not an academic one, and deciding and assessing the degree of "stateliness" needed to cross the borderline must always be personal and subjective." etc. Johnbod (talk) 00:41, 24 April 2011 (UTC)
• Merge. There's no such thing as a "stately home." It's simply an adjective, which one might see anywhere from Southern Living to a real estate brochure from Sotheby's. Adding such verbiage only complicates things. Best to merge into English country house. MarmadukePercy (talk) 09:11, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

Call it merge or redirect, in effect what is proposed is a verbal cleansing of the phrase "stately home" from the English language. I agree that the term is not favoured by academics, I admit I have been unable to find a credible writer on architecture who uses the term, but nevertheless it is very widely used by the general public, and it does have an entry in the OED as a substantial term in itself, not just as an adjective added to a noun. Even if it were merely slang, which I think would be overstating the case against, it would have a place on WP. It is a cop-out on the part of WP editors to suppress a term which is too difficult to define and for which, I agree, few sources exist. Is not WP here for people to consult for guidance about correct usage of terminology? Yet apparently we will decline even to attempt to produce that service in this instance. I made an attempt to define the term within narrow bounds, POV you may say, i.e. as the very largest of country houses, with some not overwhelming support from the OED. It was a start, an exploration of the concept and an examination of its validity. What have we discovered? Certainly that there is violent opposition to the term. This fact alone is of much interest, and should form a part of an article on the topic. That would educate and inform the reader unsure about the correct usage of the term. The term is in widespread popular use, yet no-one really knows what it means. Is that not a worthy challenge for the WP contributor to take up? (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 09:56, 24 April 2011 (UTC))

It is not proposed to "cleanse" it at all; as a redirect it will be bolded, and should have perhaps a paragraph explaining its usage and the erratic boundaries of the term. I don't agree with Giano that all that can be said on the general topic is in the article already, but expansion needs to be referenced. Johnbod (talk) 16:11, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

Redirect I think this article (Country house) already say all that is required about so caled "stately homes" - it's a meaningless, best avoided term, that is not clearly understood by anybody. It would be far more interesting if someone were to write a page on the Stately home industry which could be properly referenced far better than the term "stately home." Giacomo Returned 10:08, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

Rewrite: Why not let Marc Kupper have a go at a new article as he suggests above? He seems to have found some good sources & says he's willing. I suspect there will be found more to be written on this topic than can be fitted into a section in Country house. (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 21:29, 26 April 2011 (UTC))

Merge to here: A separate article on "Stately home" is not needed, and of the two that is plainly the title we do not need. Moonraker2 (talk) 02:46, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

Merge and just include a section on "Stately home". CircleOfWillis (talk) 13:52, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

Why English, not British?

Why is this page restricted to country houses in England? Wouldn't it be clearer to have an article on the 'British country house' (or plain 'County house' , which includes sections on regional variations? CircleOfWillis (talk) 13:35, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

Please take a look at the previous discussion on this page, from "Lead image" and on. It's not very long. Bishonen | talk 13:52, 21 December 2011 (UTC).

Thanks, yes I looked at the previous discussion on this page, but I think my question still stands: would 'British country house' be an improvement on 'English country house'? CircleOfWillis (talk) 14:53, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

No because, except for some rare examples, Scottish and Welsh houses were too far from London to evolve be used in the same manner as an English country house and as such architecturally evolved in a completely different way especially from the late 18th century onwards. Giacomo Returned 15:50, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

With respect, I strongly disagree with your above statement, which is incorrect. CircleOfWillis (talk) 17:43, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

There are country houses in Durham and Northumberland that are further from London than Wales. --Bduke (Discussion) 21:25, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

The justification for the current focus of the article seems quite valid. Nev1 (talk) 21:35, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

I think there is a slippage in this discussion between locality and building type; also English often being used to actually mean British anyway. There are endless inconsistencies relating to country houses throughout Wikipedia. Take for instance the article on Penrhyn Castle. The first sentence reads: 'Penrhyn Castle is a country house in Llandegai, Bangor, Gwynedd, North Wales, in the form of a Norman castle.' Yesterday I turned the words country house into a link, but of course it now links incorrectly to English country house. Yet a visitor to the Penrhyn Castle article might need/want to know what a country house is. The historian J. M. Robinson, for instance, has called Penrhyn Castle 'the Regency country house at its most sublime and consistent', and so Penrhyn Castle could also be classified as a 'Regency country house' [John Martin Robinson, 'Penrhyn Castle, Caernarvonshire', The Regency Country House: From the Archives of "Country Life" (London: Aurum Press, 2008).] Another Wikipedia article, English country house contents auctions, includes examples from Scotland, Wales and Ireland. And so on. CircleOfWillis (talk) 09:39, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

This article should be titled "British country house". There are tons of country houses in Ireland, left over from the British period, and even more in Scotland. Anyone that says otherwise is an idiot. RGloucester (talk) 12:07, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

• What idiot changed this page from English to British country houses? The two are not even remotely the same? Does this idiot even have a clue what a 'country house' is?  Giano  18:13, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

I know exactly what a country house is. Take for example, lovely Manderston House, which hosted the BBC television programme "The Edwardian Country House". Where is it located? Scotland. The country house is a British concept, not just an English one. This article even mentioned Scottish and Welsh houses, that television show, and so on. There was no way it could be limited to "English". RGloucester (talk) 18:35, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Do not forget WP:BRD. You may revert my changes. But common usage for the term "country house" refers to any large house in the British countryside built by the aristocracy or gentry. Scottish people call their houses "country houses" too, as do the Welsh. These houses, fundamentally, are all revolving around the same social system and are uniquely British phenomena in many ways. I understand your previous arguments, but they muddle the situation greatly. RGloucester (talk) 18:43, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

In fact the article makes very little mention of Scottish and no mention Irish houses, both of which have a quite distinct histories. More importantly there is no clear consensus here for a move.—SabreBD (talk) 18:47, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

As I said, WP:BRD. Nevertheless, an article on "British country houses" should be prepared if this one will remain English. Country houses in Scotland, Wales, and Ireland shouldn’t just be ignored. Right now, many Scottish, Welsh and Irish houses are listed as a "country house" which links to this article. That doesn’t seem appropriate if this will be reserved only for the English. RGloucester (talk) 19:00, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

No we can't BRD actually, unless an admin does. Move over redirect - you should know that. Perhaps you would like to do the decent thing and arrange that yourself? Johnbod (talk) 19:26, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Though I think the case that country houses over the various borders of England are immediately different animals is questionable, there can be no doubt that "English country house" is an extremely common phrase in sources (1.45 million in basic google, 88K in google books and see how many use it in the title), and "British country house" is not (293k, 48,500 google books). And no doubt some Scottish editors will be along shortly to explain how different their houses are. WP:COMMONNAME should be the main decider of article titles, & I would support a move back to the old title, with the addition of a section explaining the differences between tyical country houses in the 4 countries, which do exist. Certainly the moves (also the auctions articles, where the move is less problemmatic imo) should not have been done without discussion, esoecially given the previous airings of the issue. Johnbod (talk) 19:24, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

I’d agree with your concept of moving this page back to "country house", and then having that descriptive section. I have the ability to be bold, and I took it, if only to stimulate discussion, just like BRD says. This problem, however, should be solved. Scottish, Welsh and Irish country houses cannot be ignored, and while they all have their differences, some fundamental social structures remain the same. Right now, these houses have no place on Wikipedia, which isn’t acceptable at all. RGloucester (talk) 02:39, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

Then I suggest you start the pages for Scottish, Welsh and Irish country houses. They are all subtly different and often spring from different political issues, I have been working on a page concerning Irish country houses for ages and that is just one small facet of the subject. Be bold and start a page. ’’' Giano  12:56, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

I should point out there is already a page on Estate houses in Scotland.—’SabreBD' (talk) 13:57, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

Ah, a buried article. I shall proceed to make country house a disambiguation page, and fix many of the Scottish country house pages to redirect to that article. RGloucester (talk) 15:00, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

This article was originally titled country house, and that is currently a redirect here. This article should simply be returned to the old title, country house, and scope broadened. Otherwise, the redirect should be deleted, so people do not misconstrue country houses for a purely English phenomenon. 24.190.227.154 (talk) 13:14, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

I don't see any support for the unilateral move to British country house. I've moved the article back, pending any consensus that may accrue for the move in further discussion. (Oops — actually, Bishzilla moved it. That wasn't the intention, but I suppose she was eager to show that she could. It's possible for a non-admin as long as the redirect hasn't been edited.) Bishonen | talk 20:11, 3 July 2013 (UTC).

Rework this sentence

Towards the very end: "While many country houses are open to the public, they remain inhabited private houses, in some cases by the descendents of their original builders."

1. "...they remain" gives a meaning different from "...there remain..." 2. Surely the noun "descendants" is required here again, rather than the adjective "descendent". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.150.252.154 (talk) 07:52, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

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