Talk:Edgar Rosenberg

Correction to References

Reference Number 1 is incorrect. It refers to a different Edgar Rosenberg, a retired Cornell U. Professor. See his bio.

His DOB may also be wrong since I doubt two Edagar Rosenbergs were born on the same day in the same small town in Germany.

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99.101.197.53 (talk) 00:28, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

Rosenberg's DOB

I find this matter really interesting, as it's a real chicken vs. egg argument: which online sources are right, which came before the others, and which took (erroneous?) information from which? There really appears to be no way to find out, at least not based on the searching I've done so far, (untrue now, see below), so I agree that a specific day/month/year birthdate should not be induced in this article.

Going back to his August 1987 obituaries from highly reputable sources, though (the New York Times: [1], the L.A. Times [2], and the Philadelphia Inquirer [3] (he died in Philly, so that paper gave his death more scrutiny than it might have otherwise), we find consensus that he was 62 at the time of his death (August 14, 1987). That means that he was born between August 1924 and August 1925.

The Philadelphia Inquirer article (linked above) states that he was "born in Germany in 1925." Can we assume that a major-market daily newspaper had that fact correct? I think we can. I propose that we include either (c. 1925 - ) or (1924 or 1925 - ) as his birthdate in this article. What's not in dispute is that he had a birthdate, and the absolute omission of one from this article strikes me as unnecessary. I'm going to add (c. 1925 - ) as his birthdate if there isn't any discussion here after a few days. Moncrief (talk) 17:43, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

EDIT: Aha! This also means conclusively that a September 21, 1925 DOB can't be right. Someone born on 9/21/1925 would not turn 62 until 9/21/1987, which is after Rosenberg's 8/14/87 death. Moncrief (talk) 17:47, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

I think this illustrates the unreliability of Find-a-Grave. Also I have erred on the side of no speculation because Joan Rivers appears only to have said he was born in Bremerhaven and came to the US as a refugee from Nazism. Unless she or their daughter reveal his DOB, I don't think it's proper for us to speculate. (There also are, or were, sources claiming he was born in England; I discount those because of her published statement.) But yes, as you see, there has clearly been a tangling up with the other Edgar Rosenberg. Yngvadottir (talk) 20:23, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

Right, as I mentioned, it is not appropriate to include a Month/Day/Year DOB. However, Wikipedia relies on reliable sources, and we have three reliable sources from the time of his death (so nothing that's been bent toward inaccuracy by the passage of time) that he was 62 at the time of his death. We have a reliable source also from that time that said he was born in 1925. If he was 62 at the time of his death, it is a certainty that he was born between August 1924 and August 1925. I am willing to use either (c. 1925 - ) or (1924 or 1925 - ), but it doesn't make sense to have only a death date. People who are looking for a sense of how old he was at his death currently have no information, and withholding sourced information needs to have a purpose behind it. It is common in articles where no exact DOB can be determined to use the "c." marking or a range of years, as long as that information is sourced reliably. Moncrief (talk) 22:26, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

I see; I was thinking it was a bit OR'ish, especially since there are errors out there, like the born in England (which is in the LA Times). I'd incline towards circa simply 1925 (with a ref) since you say one of the reliable sources actually says 1925 - which one, again? the Philadelphia Enquirer gives that as his year of birth and you say it's expected to have some indication of year of birth, and I hope it's correct, but clearly he was a private man. Yngvadottir (talk) 22:41, 5 December 2012 (UTC) (Updated after checking the 3 obits. Yngvadottir (talk) 22:52, 5 December 2012 (UTC))

Marriage

The question is whether to say Rosenberg was "the husband of" or "married to" Joan Rivers. There is no style guide that would favor the former; it suggests subjugation rather than equality. 842U (talk) 13:13, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

I don't think there's much in it, but I'm inclined to see "He was married to" as sufficiently clear and just a bit more neutral. The article had the wording "He was the husband of the comedienne" for a very long time; now that I think of it, I'm going to likewise change that to "comedian" for neutrality and to match later in the article. Yngvadottir (talk) 15:54, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

what caused his suicide.

The article on Joan Rivers says "Rivers blamed the tragedy on his "humiliation" by Fox" whereas this article says " He had been suffering from clinical depression, which Joan Rivers believes was brought on by medication he had been taking since suffering a heart attack in 1984." Are these 2 different explanations? --Richardson mcphillips (talk) 03:50, 30 August 2014 (UTC)

To quote one newspaper story: " ... he recorded three cassette tapes--one for his wife, one for their 19-year-old daughter Melissa and one for Pileggi....Rosenberg admit that he had taken his own life. ...On the recording, Rosenberg explained that his failing health, beginning with a massive heart attack in 1984, made him feel he was a "burden to the people he loved" and that he "couldn't go on," Pileggi said....(Rivers) herself doesn't yet fully understand. "He had gotten very depressed. And since the heart attack, he never really came out of it. . . . His health just disintegrated and with it his mental health. . . . I don't mean to say that he was crazy . . . it's just that he was very upset."

Yes, that's from the Nikki Finke story, which we cite from the LA Times. And there is a surprising statement by Roger Ebert here. There was apparently a lot going on. So I think it best to leave it with what she wanted said. Yngvadottir (talk) 16:26, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

WP:Coatrack

Wow this biography is written in a style that is quite a torture to read. When I get time, I'll redo it.Wjhonson (talk) 20:16, 4 September 2014 (UTC)

I'm still wondering what you mean. Could you clarify what you think is wrong with it, and why you see it as coatracking? Yngvadottir (talk) 15:41, 29 September 2014 (UTC)