Talk:Durga/Archive 1

I've never seen the work 'Durgha' used, so I deleted that as an alternative spelling.
Gokul

Should there be mention of Karni Mata?

Durga as Living Icon

Durga as she is worshipped today in large tracts of Bengal,Bihar,Jharkhand, Orissa, Nepal and other parts of Eastern India, is much more than a mythical figure. She is a living sociocultural phenomenon, as this article captures in the lower part. Yes, her mythology needs to be told, but to relegate her as a part of the "Hindu Mythology" project is not right; the mythology is a part of the Durga concept, and this article, in my opinion, does well to reflect this.

So the Hindy Mythology project should link to this article, but should not try to restrict the notion of Durga merely to her mythology. If necessary, a second article called "Durga Mythology" can reflect the many versions of the Durga myth.

In other respects, I find this article quite well written and cogent, and do not see why it has been marked for cleanup - perhaps the contributors since July 2005 have cleaned it up and it is time this flag was removed (however that works!)...

--mukerjee

Potential Merger

I'm just about to add a link to a page for potential merging. Please be very very careful if you do merge the pages together. The other page was created by an anon IP and its information -may- be copied off something else. Their may be some good info their which is worth incorporating here just be careful. -- Shimirel ^(Talk) 01:01, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Actually the durgashtami article (as of today) is extremely poorly written, but otherwise it presents an Andhra perspective on the puja which possibly should be incorporated (perhaps as an additional paragraph) into the Durga article under the "Worship of Durga" section. Mukerjee 07:20, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Broken link

The link to http://durgapuja.visitnortheast.com/ seems to be broken. Can whoever put it there fix it?--Snowgrouse 16:00, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Disputed Material

The actual worship of the goddess as stipulated by the Hindu scriptures is in the Hindu month of Chaitra. The month roughly overlaps with March and April. The ceremony is observed only by a handful and that too in the state of West Bengal. The more popular form of the ceremony popularly known as Sharadiya (from Sharad which means Autumn) is celebrated later in the year with the dates falling either in September or October

.

The Chaitra navaratri is another popular festival devoted to the goddess. Though clay images are not worshipped at the household level; Devi temples observe it. I object to the "The actual worship of the goddess as stipulated by the Hindu scriptures is in the Hindu month of Chaitra. The ceremony is observed only by a handful and that too in the state of West Bengal. " It is also observed in Devi temples in Maharashtra , i do not know of rest of the states. --Redtigerxyz 12:31, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

Mantra

Most other Hindu devas/devis have mention of a mantra. Shiva, Vishnu etc. Should we add it or no? Happy Asuj Navratras everyone. --ॐJesucristo301 00:44, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Merge from Dhruti

This seems like it should be merged, as it is said to be one of the 108 names of Durga. Is there an "official" list of 108 names of Durga (analogous to 99 Names of God in the Qur'an)? If so, that should be in this article (or in an article linked), which could probably include all the material from Dhruti (meaning, etymology, etc.) Rigadoun (talk) 17:40, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Durga, VEDIC????

The acknowledgment and reverence of the Female Principle, The Goddess, first appears in Hinduism in its most ancient authority, the most ancient of Indo-European texts, the Sanskrit Rig Ved itself. Whereas Indologist scholars have seen fit to suggest that the worship of the "Primal Mother" is an introduction into the religion from the Dravidian population, it cannot be ignored how tutelary The Goddess was to the Aryans themselves.

The "narration of energies" , known in Sanskrit as "sukt" appears in the Rig Ved as the (Rig Vedao'ktam - literally, "created of the Rig Ved") "Devi Suktam."

The personification of Nature, Shakti ("Energy"), or of Universal Consciousness was taken, rightly so, by the Vedic Indians to be utterly beyond human comprehension. Indeed, several Sanskritic verses often demonstrate an apologetic tone to the perceived gods, asking and stating the seeming impossibility of the task of "Divine Description".

The Vedic Goddess, known by various names, is commonly regarded as the collective strength of all that is. She is Aditi, the Solar Mother, Creatrix Superior, mother of the Sun and the creative potency of The Lord of the Universe Himself.

The Gayatri mantra, chanted with much fervour by practising Hindus, is dedicated to the Sun not as a star, but for His (the Sun's) energy, i.e. Shakti.

Identification of Durga with Vedic Aditi is OR. Also Gayatri mantra dedicated to Sun's Shakti is OR. too.--Redtigerxyz 16:46, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Contemporary incarnation

I think that the "contemporary incarnation" section is inappropriate. It is not written badly, I just do not think that such current event type content is fit for an encyclopedia. In the history of the worship of the goddess Durga, this is a minor event, at least so far. It may develop more later. Also, similar events considered supernatural by some occur regularly in India, with some being looked upon as a positive sign and others being considered negative. -- Kjkolb (talk) 04:29, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Removed:

In April 2008 the Associated Press widely circulated a report that a healthy baby girl in India has been worshipped as an incarnation of Durga, receiving up to 100 people daily to "touch her feet out of respect, offer money, and receive blessings". Lali, the daughter of Vinod Singh in Saini Sunpura, a small village in north India 25 miles east of New Delhi, was born with a craniofacial duplication, an extremely rare genetic anomaly. She has four eyes, two noses, and two mouths. Village leaders have hailed her for bringing fame to their community, and plan to build a temple to Durga.

Citation not WP:RS, also WP:UNDUE.--Redtigerxyz (talk) 05:18, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia frequently covers current events, and usually the Associated Press is regarded as a reliable source in articles. This is not such a large article that it lacks room for more information. The story seems uncommonly interesting when one considers that although unlikely, we really don't know whether a human being with such an unusually formed brain could sometimes have extraordinary mental capacity - for all we know she might in some sense actually be an incarnation of Durga... Wnt (talk) 06:47, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Source of inspiration in Kenya

I thought this is a WP:UNDUE in this article:

"Harambee", the national motto of Kenya which appers on the country's coat of arms, is considered to be derived from the name of Ambee Mata - a reincarnation of Durga riding a tiger. Kenya's first president Jomo Kenyatta is said to have witnessed a team of Hindu railway line workers, carrying huge loads of iron rails and sleeper blocks and chanting "har, har ambee!" (praise, praise to Ambee Mother!) - which Kenyatta regarded as a metaphor for a nation working together, communicating and sharing its load, an example to be emulated by Kenyans of all faiths

--Redtigerxyz ^Talk 12:52, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

108 names of Durga

There are several weblinks with 108 names of Durga, for example, [1], [2], [3], [4], [5], [6].

Austerlitz -- 88.75.76.10 (talk) 08:54, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

• Durgasaptasati (Text, Eng. tr.)
• [7]
• [8]

-- 88.75.76.10 (talk) 09:20, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

• [9] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.75.76.10 (talk) 09:27, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Maa Durga

Jai Maa Durga. I have much faith in Maa Durga.I am sharing with you some awful movements which I was facing from last two months. I was afraid of unknown fear. I could not understand what should I do. Science do not believe in super-natural power. Doctors could not make me well. I requested and dedicate myself in worship of God and Maa Durga. Now I am quite well. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.200.65.27 (talk) 09:10, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

What is a Khorgo (weapon?)

In the end of the section 'The Divine belief' it is stated "The goddess cut off his trunk with her Khorgo and "...cutting Mahishasur's head down with her Khorgo. Could someone clarify what this Khorgo is? Wiki-uk (talk) 13:26, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

I just read this article for the first time and noticed this question. The word in the article (Khorgo) is a misspelling of khaḍga (खड्ग) which means "sword". The Devī Māhātmyam verse for the cutting of the elephant trunk is 3.32, where the text reads "khaḍgena" (खड्गेन instrumental form of khaḍga). The Wikilink goes to an article for Sickle. The use of capitals on the word in the article gives the impression it is the name of a specific weapon, but I think the text is clear that it is not. The verse is translated by Swami Jagadiswarananda as "the Devī cut off his trunk with her sword" (Jagadiswarananda, Swami (2003). Devi Mahatmyam. Sri Ramakrishna Math. p. 48. ISBN 81-7120-139-3.).

The verse for the cutting off of the head is 3.42 which Swami Jagadiswarananda translates by saying Devī "cut off his head with her great sword". In that verse a different term for "great sword" is used: mahāsinā (महासिना). (Jagadiswarananda, Swami (2003). Devi Mahatmyam. Sri Ramakrishna Math. p. 51. ISBN 81-7120-139-3.). An asiḥ is a sword (Apte p. 191).

I am going to edit the article to replace the word “Khorgo” with the word “sword” since there seems to be no benefit to using either of the two Sanskrit terms used in the two verses. The article could use some general work. Buddhipriya (talk) 03:58, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

The misspelling is actually a phonetic rendering of the word's pronunciation in Bengali. rudra (talk) 20:40, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for clearing this up! Wiki-uk (talk) 05:22, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

Move of unsourced material to talk page

I would like to see more effort made to source this article. I am moving the following material that was just added to here so it can be examined and a proper citation found, if possible. "Durga is also worshipped through symbolisation with weapons of war particularly swords such as the Khanda (Indian double edged sword). The worship is known as Shashtra Puja or Ayudh Pooja" Buddhipriya (talk) 04:43, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

Worshiped by the Enemies of the Aryans

Please see my comments on the talk page for the Dasa article. There is some evidence that the enemies of the Rgvedic Aryans worshiped Durga. Hokie Tech (talk) 23:19, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

Added Durga Pronunciation

I have added the pronunciation of the word "Durga" --Tito Dutta (Send me a message) 12:29, 2 October 2011 (UTC)

Durga as Self-Sufficient

Regarding: "An embodiment of creative feminine force (Shakti), Durga exists in a state of svātantrya (independence from the universe and anything/anybody else, i.e., self-sufficiency) and fierce compassion.Durga manifests fearlessness and patience, and never loses her sense of humor, even during spiritual battles of epic proportion.[citation needed]"

I would like to read some citation for this claim, not to be picky, but out of curiosity. My understanding (limited as it is as a foreigner) is that the a non-dualist view of Brahman is the ultimate ground of being and thus is the only real, and all other individual selves' individuality is illusory. Not all Hindus believe this, of course, but I think that some mention should be made of which school believes Durga is in a state of svātantrya. Is it the Shakta only who believes this, or are there other groups? This is my first post to wikipedia ever. If I have made a mistake, please let me know. Fordlikethecar (talk) 05:32, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Conflict of Information

The Apple Dictionary function lists Durga as being "a fierce goddess, wife of Shiva, often identified with Kali. She is usually depicted riding a tiger or lion and slaying the buffalo demon, and with eight or ten arms." Doesn't that fly in the face of her being an "eternal virgin"? 207.216.193.21 (talk) 18:30, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

I can not understand this properly. Providing more details might help! --Tito Dutta (Send me a message) 02:13, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

Oxford American Dictionary (which is included in Apple computers) defines Durga as an aspect of Kali and the wife of Shiva. 207.216.193.21 (talk) 21:35, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

I want to clear that as per Devi Bhagwat Purana, Durga and Adi shakti are two different but the same. Durga / Parvati are complete incarnation of Maa Adi Parashakti. But Adi shakti is independent.

Adi (Endless) Para (beyond) Shakti (Energy), Energy is independent, but required to all includent Trimurti. So She came in the form of Goddess Durga/Parvati. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.173.226.208 (talk) 18:27, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

What is up with the leading paragraph?

That massive wall of text has to be truncated. If it contains useful information, it needs to be cut into the body.

I am not knowledgeable enough to attempt it, but I highly recommend that anyone who is undertake such an endeavor. 98.163.223.101 (talk) 00:00, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

• I've removed the wall of text for now and restored the original version. Paris1127 (talk) 00:51, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Request_for_edit

Kindly allow me to edit the page "Durga" as it is full of incorrect information, that which cannot be cited in any of the major Hindu scriptures. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Deepankar Mukherjee (talk • contribs) 17:42, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

Notable temples in India and Indonesia

Presumably, the section on notable temples in India and Indonesia is specifically about temples to Durga, not just temples in general.

I notice that 121.241.168.85 added Vaishno Devi to the list. Should it be on the list?

Yaris678 (talk) 12:52, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

I think it should be on the list because Vaishno Devi is devoted to Devi, which is referring to the ultimate divine goddess, and since Durga is one of the most revered versions of Devi, I feel it would be appropriate. As far as I understand it all Devi worship is not to Durga, but all Durga worship is to Devi, and being that Vaishno Devi is one of the most popular pilgrimage sites in all of India, it would seem fair to include it with a qualifier. I got a chance to visit the Vaishno Devi, and Durga images were very prevalent along the path. fordlikethecar (talk) 05:58, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Regarding 'Notable temples of Goddess Durga in India': "Deori Temple near Ranchi, Jharkhand, India" is one of the famous and powerful Durga temple in Jharkhand. It should also be added in the list. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SATISH SAGAR (talk • contribs) 15:55, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 12 October 2013

Notable temple of durga in Odisha please include the following temples to the list

Samaleswari temple, sambalpur,odisha sureswari temple,sonepur, odisha Maa shyamakali temple, bargarh, odisha tarini temple, keonjhar, odisha

Ravi4bgh (talk) 05:10, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

It isn't a matter of making a list, which should probably be a separate article anyway, but of finding references that show these temples are notable. Currently the list is entirely uncited and could simply be deleted. In fact, the whole article desperately needs more and better sources. Chiswick Chap (talk) 08:41, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

Not done: per Chiswick Chap. --Stfg (talk) 12:01, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

Review

PaintedCarpet (talk) 16:07, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

Agni/Shiva as consort

@114.23.138.206/hopping IP addresses: welcome to wikipedia. What is your concern with the reliable sources stating Durga's consort is usually Shiva? Do you have a reliable source for Agni as the usual consort of Durga in her iconography? Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 12:44, 8 October 2016 (UTC)

Deletions of sources and sourced content

@2001:4898:80e8:2::5c3: Please do not delete sources and sourced content, as you did repeatedly in this article. This is disruptive and inconsistent with content guidelines of wikipedia. Removing English language text based on scholarly sources, and replacing it with your non-English language transliteration is inappropriate. If you have concerns, please discuss them on this talk page or contact WP:TEAHOUSE. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 21:38, 14 March 2017 (UTC)

(Update) @2001:4898:80e8:2::5c3: I checked the Rigveda manuscript and the cited sources. Your translit is completely wrong. What you added is not from the Rigveda, it seems to be from internet blogs. The Rigveda text is available on Wikisource. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 23:03, 14 March 2017 (UTC)

Mention of Ramakrishna in the article "Durga"

It has been mentioned that Ramakrishna was the founder of Ramakrishna Mission. Actually his disciples, Swami Vivekananda being the most prominent among them, were the joint founders of Ramakrishna Mission. The article needs revision to this extent. Jayanta K Ghosh (talk) 10:31, 19 March 2017 (UTC)

Durga

It is stated in the article that Ramakrishna was a devotee of Durga. But, actually he was a devotee of Kali and worshipped Kali at the Kali temple at Dakhsineswar at the northern outer limits of Kolkata. The article may be suitably edited to this end. Jayanta K Ghosh (talk) 10:21, 19 March 2017 (UTC)

Please see the cited source published by Oxford University Press. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 10:49, 19 March 2017 (UTC)

Copyright Violations taken from Wikimedia Commons

There is a problem of the file from Commons, File:Durga Puja Dhak.ogg, for the following reason: User request + copyright issue. In 2011 I recorded it from another recording; The uploader's file violates Commons:Licensing policy, some user as warned to upload copyvios will be blocked from editing. Regards, Jkg1997 (talk • contribs • CA) 12:40, 22 October 2019 (UTC)

Why this page has been deleted without any nomination?

@Graham87: Why did you delete this page when no one contested deletion? If any type of move happened then please give link of the new page. — Harshil ^{want to talk?} 14:35, 24 October 2019 (UTC)

@Harshil169: I just got this mention. My deletion and page moves were due to a history merge, to put all the edits of the article in one place. Your undoing of my move was fine this time (if a bit unexpected), but please don't do that again, because it could've caused bad consequences. The article should be back to normal now. Graham87 14:47, 24 October 2019 (UTC)

@Graham87: Please understand Indian languages. Meaning of Durgha means fort in India while Durga means name of Goddess. It famously known as Durga not as Durgha. Searching Durgha will also show results for Durga. Please don’t move page without reaching on consensus. — Harshil ^{want to talk?} 14:51, 24 October 2019 (UTC)

@Harshil169: Please read about history merges. The page move was only temporary; it would've been at that title for five minutes at the most. This page does not need any more history-merging work so I have no plans to move it. Graham87 14:57, 24 October 2019 (UTC)

Durga consort to infobox

@Lk568354: @Basavaraj Patel: @Fylindfotberserk: @Rosguill: In Hinduism, Durga is considered as a form of Lakshmi, the wife of Vishnu by Vaishnavas and she is considered as the wife of Shiva by Shaivas and some consider Durga as Sister of Vishnu. According to some traditions she is the Supreme Being and from her emanated Brahma (Creator), Vishnu (Sustainer) and Shiva (destroyer). The Sikhism and Jainism traditions have their own beliefs on Durga's consort. So its better to be neutral and leave the consort section blank. What do you guys say - MRRaja001 (talk) 08:32, 4 November 2020 (UTC)

No, actually, in all Shaktism, Vaishnavism, Shaivism, Durga is known to be the consort of Shiva, as is Lakshmi is considered the consort of Vishnu in all of the aformentioned religions. There is no neutrality, because then the assumption of bachelorhood is predominantly given weight, which is absolutely false. Durga (as Parvati) is considered the sister of Vishnu by both traditions. Also note, all traditions are essentially the same traditions. The only difference being the emphasis on which form of God. -- — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lk568354 (talk • contribs)

@MRRaja001: This source specifically mentions Durga being one of the three aspects of Laxmi. And Lk568354, could you present which of the sources says ...but also as a sister to Vishnu in your edit? Also note that you've been blocked before for 3RR before, so discuss it here. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 11:08, 4 November 2020 (UTC)

@Fylindfotberserk: That's what I'm trying to tell, but @Lk568354: is removing the content or changing according to his will without discussing properly. According to Vaishnavism traditions durga is considered as one of the three forms of Goddess Lakshmi, the other two being Shri and Bhu Citation 1 . So, how can we add Shiva as consort of Durga into infobox. This makes things biased. - MRRaja001 (talk) 12:04, 4 November 2020 (UTC)

I agree to the BALANCE thing, pinging @Ms Sarah Welch:. Perhaps she can weigh in on this. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 14:23, 4 November 2020 (UTC)

I want to add that consort changes depending upon the source you are considering for. For eg. Lakshmi is associated with Dharma, Indra or Aswins in some later texts, but now everyone knows who is her consort. Other gods and goddesses including Saraswati, Ganesha, Vishnu, Ganga, Shiva and Brahma have been associated with one another, but we consider widely accepted facts. In most cultures, Durga is considered Shiva's consort.

Regards, .👨🏻‍🎨 💠245CMR💠.•^👥📜 14:38, 4 November 2020 (UTC)

I am not sure but Maa Durga is considered Lord Vishnu's sister in some culture of Vaishnavism. But, I don't think this should be added in the infobox as this is an example of rare association which I mentioned and Parvati is generally considered as Vishnu's sister.

.👨🏻‍🎨 💠245CMR💠.•^{👥 📜} 15:27, 4 November 2020 (UTC)

The fact is that Parvati is Durga, the same being called by different names. Can't call Parvati a sister of Vishnu and then say that Durga (aka Parvati) is not. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lk568354 (talk • contribs) 18:24, 4 November 2020 (UTC)

Also it's disrespectful to disregard Durga as Shiva's consort, just as it's disrespectful to disregard Radha as Krishna's consort. It's public manipulation aimed at biasing unlearned minds with a false fabricated emphasis. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lk568354 (talk • contribs) 18:24, 4 November 2020 (UTC)

The majority of Indians cannot see a Durga or a Shiva without a consort. They are the consort of each other. They define each other. This deliberate deletion of something so positive and noncontroversial is biased on your end. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lk568354 (talk • contribs) 18:24, 4 November 2020 (UTC)

Many devotees cannot worship Durga without Shiva, and vice versa. This is simply disrespectful and unjust. This is the most crucial aspect, element, and description of Durga on her page, which namely is her consort. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lk568354 (talk • contribs) 18:24, 4 November 2020 (UTC)

I am not trying to support anybody, but we cannot keep each and everything neutral in Infobox as there are thousands of scriptures. .👨🏻‍🎨 💠245CMR💠.•^👥📜 03:41, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

Durga and Parvati can be the same goddess or forms of Shakti. Vishnu is generally considered Parvati's spiritual brother, but he can be considered Durga's too. .👨🏻‍🎨 💠245CMR💠.•^👥📜 03:49, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

Durga as Pravathi is only the view of Shaivism, later it was adopted by Shaktas too. Vaishnavism especially from South India, especially according to Ramanujacharya and Madhvacharya, Durga is considered a form of Lakshmi and a Brahmacharini (she who is celibate for life). Vaishnavas never accept Durga as wife of Shiva. It is not possible to add to infobox with this kind of view. - MRRaja001 (talk) 05:51, 5 November 2020 (UTC) --> actually that is false. You just made a radical assumption that Vaishnavas never accept Durga as wife of Shiva. The fact is that Vaishnaves do not even focus on Shiva or Durga/Parvati. They focus on Vishnu and Lakshmi. So that is not a valid source to go to in regards to Durga's eternal consorthood with Shiva. It seems as if you're just promoting your false bias based off your biased radical interpretation of hindu spirituality. So note: it is absolutely warranted to keep lovers/consorts together. Also, from a moral perspective, it is wrong to divorce consorts.

Also note: Vaishnavism doesn't have more of a say on Shiva or Durga than Shaivism or Shaktism.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Lk568354 (talk • contribs) 7 November 2020 (UTC)

@Lk568354: I don't know about North Indian Vaishnavas. I'm mainly talking about South Indian Vaishnavas. Because North Indians consider Radha as wife of Krishna, while South Indian and Maharashtrian Vaishnavas won't accept this. Like this there are many differences among Vaishnava traditions. But in South Indian traditions, Durga is considered as Celibate Goddess and is not associated with anyone even though a form of Lakshmi. In South Indian Vaishnavism, especially in Madhva Sampradaya Durga worship is given much importance. Even Madhvacharya used to go to Durga temple on hilltop of Pajaka and talk with her. Jayatirtha, one of the main saints of Dvaita also did severe austerities and gained blessings of Durga. With the blessings of Durga Mata only he wrote all his works. Like this there are many glories in Madhva tradition. How can you simply generalize all like this. - MRRaja001 (talk) 04:54, 7 November 2020 (UTC)

      ---> actually Durga is never considered a celibate "goddess". In fact no being can be considered a "god" without a consort, and celibacy is a made up radical notion prominent amongst people who were taught against consorthood and sex, because their belief came from the notion that to become a religious person, they have to disassociate completely from interacting with the people on earth. Also, a few cultures, especially a few (not all) south indian cultures, are hypocritical with this notion because they still associate consorthood with Vishnu and many major deities, because they can't find a way to get away from this established notion. I'm not generalizing. Simply talking about Pajaka is deviating from the topic and is also a generalization. Many people are true devotees of Durga, including me and my lineage of ancestors. We just do not show it to the world like Pajaka because we interact less with the people on earth. The fact is the many people cannot see a goddess without a god, Durga without Shiva, Radha without Krishna. And this is actually a forward-looking cheerful perceptive, because we cannot see our mother and father departing. Every devotee will commune with Durga, not just Pajaka. 

Pls re read what I wrote earlier. .👨🏻‍🎨 💠245CMR💠.•^👥📜 07:55, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

I have gone through everything that you've written, it's better to leave infobox without adding consort. You need to understand one thing, i can also provide you ten's of references on Durga as Lakshmi's form and as female celibate (means didn't marry anyone even though a Lakshmi's form). But it's better to stop here and leave consort section blank. - MRRaja001 (talk) 15:21, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

@Lk568354: @Fylindfotberserk: @Rosguill: @MRRaja001: The principle text of Shaktism, Devi Mahatmya which reveres Durga as the principal deity, calls Lakshmi to be form of Durga and as wife of shiva.

"Deva Ouchu: Namo devyai maha devyai shivayai sathatham nama, Nama prakruthyair bhadrayair niyatha pranatha sma thaam.,7 "

English Translation :

"Devas told: Salutations to the Goddess. Salutations to that great Goddess who is the consort of Shiva,Salutations to her who is nature and she who takes care of every thing. We are saluting her with veneration after controlling our mind."

"Thwam Srees thwam easwari, thwam hree sthwam budhir bhoda lakshana, Lajja pushtisthadha thushtisthwam santhi kshanthireva cha.,61"

English Translation :

"You are Goddess Lakshmi, you are the wife of Lord Shiva, you are shyness, you are the intellect helping to take definite decision, you are the intellect which makes us hesitate to take decisions, and similarly you are happiness, solace and patience."

If you interpret the entire text of Devi Mahatmya, she is being referred to as wife of shiva or rudra, mother of all demigods including vishnu(shaktite interpretation), mother of all beings, guiding force of Trimurtis.

I will provide more sources. Let there not be any more edits on this issue. My interpretation is just because Shaktism says Lakshmi is wife of shiva, we should take it as a syncretic text showing all are manifestations of brahman. No person has done edits on this regard on pages pertaining to Lakshmi offending vaishnavaites. Basavaraj Patel (talk)

@Basavaraj Patel: Well, that is a Shaktism interpretation. Vaishnavism interpretation is different from this. The thing is article is about various traditions and their interpretation's, how can we add only Shaktism interpretation to infobox. - MRRaja001 (talk) 07:31, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

• If the Durga's status as consort differs across significant religious groups, then it's probably not something that belongs in the infobox. _signed, Rosguill ^talk 09:41, 6 November 2020 (UTC) ---> That's not a good argument, because predominantly Durga is the consort of Shiva. It does not differ across significant religious groups because the three main groups Shaivism, Shaktism, and Vaishnavism regard Durga as Shiva's consort. Also note: the religious groups who do disagree are NOT by any means "significant." They are minor radical groups, typically they are uneducated. Also, of prominent importance, is the fact that it is very offensive to disregard Durga as Shiva's consort to the majority of the Durga worshipers just as it is offensive to disregard Radha as Krishna's consort.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Lk568354 (talk • contribs) 7 November 2020 (UTC)

Have to agree with Rosguill here. If the "consort" part is contentious, then IMO, it is better to live it blank in the infobox. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 12:12, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

References

Then what about other gods and goddesses associated with one another. Better to leave. .💠245CMR💠.•^👥📜 13:08, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

@Lk568354: @Fylindfotberserk: @Rosguill: @MRRaja001: Let me make my case with sources. Basavaraj Patel (talk)

@Lk568354: @Fylindfotberserk: @Rosguill: @MRRaja001: @245CMR: I have few questions directed towards MRRaja001 1. Why were continious references to Parvati apart from Shiva removed from the page by him ? I want him to accept he has an extremist bias, since the school of dvaita philosophy he believes in, has a history of opposition to other religions including religions worshipping Shiva or Shakti. The most famous and controversial organisation of dvaita philosophy being International Society for Krishna Consciousness.

• An article by ISCKON IRM condemning worship of demigods Godess Parvati(Durga) and God Shiva by ISCKON Hungary. Yes the article by an extremist organisation referring to Goddess Durga as Godess Parvati.
• Another article by another outlet associated with ISCKON movement condemning worship of Durga in a blasphemous way. . I do not have any personal opposition to MRRaja001, he is entitled to his opinions, however extremist his opinions are.
• The organisation was referred to as Hare Krishna Religion by the US Courts, Link : International Society for Krishna Consciousness, How could the views and inferences of this group could be used as source or references for texts on Hinduism.

I have more questions and sources for this debate, I am requesting for time. Basavaraj Patel (talk)

@Basavaraj Patel: For Your Information:
* Firstly i have never removed any reference from Durga page, you can go through the history of page.
*Secondly, i am not biased towards any tradition. My opinion is every tradition have their own beliefs and opinions, so adding one belief to infobox doesn't make any sense.
*Third, The International Society for Krishna Consciousness is not related to Dvaita Vedanta. They are followers of their own philosophy called Achintya Bheda Abheda. There is no connection between the two except worship of Lord Vishnu.
*Fourth, Can you please quote which reference that i have provided is from ISKCON.
*Fifth, Go through this link you'll come to know the difference between ISKCON and Dvaita Vedanta of Madhvacharya. You're just blaming me without having proper knowledge on the things. Understand one thing Madhvas or followers of Dvaita Vedanta belong to Vaishnavism tradition, so they'll obviously oppose to Shaktism and Shaivism views like other Vaishnavism traditions what's the big deal about this. (this is regarding your first point)
*I am ready to answer all your questions. - MRRaja001 (talk) 17:11, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

@MRRaja001: Why have you not removed Lakshmi's consort from that page ? and added a note that Shaktites believe Lakshmi to be consort of Shiva ? I just checked the references you used in this page, those references are not in your favour.Basavaraj Patel (talk) 18:37, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

Reference 1(Isaeva, N. V. (1993), Shankara and Indian Philosophy, SUNY Press, ISBN 978-0791412817) : This discusses Dvaita Philosophy and Advaita philosophy. "Prakriti represents the immediate source and foundation of three gunas which are ruled by three aspects and embodiments of Lakshmi(sri, bhu and durga)".

Reference 2(Pintchman, Tracy (2014), Seeking Mahadevi: Constructing the Identities of the Hindu Great Goddess, SUNY Press, ISBN 978-0791490495) : There are two mentions of Durga with respect to Lakshmi. One is Vaishno Devi who is avatar of Lakshmi, being linked to Durga. Second, In Narada Purana and Bramavaivarta Purana, Durga being called as an avatar of Radha( aka Lakshmi ).

Problem with reference 1, Durga is being referred in a syncretic manner. It is not referring it to Goddess Durga but durga as description of character. The dvaita literature do not say durga is woman, do not say what her duties are, do not say what her character is. How convininet that MRRaja001 used this piece to say that Vaishnav texts define and created Durga mythology as a goddess to Vishnu. There are so less references of Durga in vaishnav texts, that we will miss them if we blink. It is devi mahatmya and other non vaishnav texts, which begin to define her as a woman, a goddess, a mother, her duties, her consort shiva.
Problem with reference 2, The book itself recalls many devotees of vaishno devi disagreeing that she is avatar of Durga. And, in Narada Purana (quoted by Pintchman), Krishna divides himself in half to create Siva, later Siva marries Durga. In Brahma Vaivarta Purana, Durga is avatar of Radha and Shiva is avatar of Krishna. So the references quoted by MRRaja do not oppose the view that Shiva is consort of Durga. Basavaraj Patel (talk) 19:11, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

@Fylindfotberserk: @Rosguill: I just want to bring it to you attention. That vaishnav sect to which MRRaja001 adheres to, did not create the mythology of Durga. I challenge everyone to accumulate all references of durga in vaishnav texts and see if it matches the mythology of durga. You will not find a single piece of mythology associated with durga in their texts.
It is common for different religions to quote and include other religions in a syncretic manner. Vaishnav texts have included Durga in a syncretic manner, while the mythology surrounding Durga is built by Shaivite and Shakti traditions. This case is similar to Jesus being quoted in Quran. Character, Mythology and Devotion around Jesus is built by christianity. Facts from Quran regarding Jesus need not be interpreted as "opposing" information, but as syncretic adoptions in ancient world. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Basavaraj Patel (talk • contribs) 19:32, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

@Basavaraj Patel: Don't worry i can provide you references:
Example text
* In Mahabharata Tatparya Nirnaya, Tantra Sara Sangraha, Gita Tatparya, Bhagavata Tatparya Nirnaya, etc. Madhvacharya explained everything related to Maa Durga.
* If you want meaning of Devi Mahatmya according to Madhva Sampradaya you can learn from this magazine.
* Madhvacharya himself used to go to Durga temple in Pajaka on the hilltop which was constructed by Lord Parashurama and used to talk with Maa Durga.
* Raghavendra Tirtha many times met Maa Durga and offered her naivedya too.
*Along with Krishna, and Balarama idols, Madhvacharya also found Maa Durga idol, which he consecrated and built temple.
* Vadiraja Tirtha also built a Mookambika temple, also a name of Durga.
Example text
These are all the the mythology surrounding Maa Durga. Hope i answered. - MRRaja001 (talk) 08:28, 7 November 2020 (UTC)

@Lk568354:@245CMR: Could you post links of news articles(from different states) calling durga as wife of shiva, navratri celebrations and such. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Basavaraj Patel (talk • contribs) 19:32, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

@Lk568354: @Basavaraj Patel:, Before saving your talk edits, put four '~' for signature..💠245CMR💠.•^👥📜 03:24, 7 November 2020 (UTC)

Overview of literature:

• Encyclopedia of Hinduism by Constance A. Jones and James D. Ryan: entry Durga, pp. 139-40 Talks initially about an independent nature in the Devi mahatmya then "She is also cast as a married daughter, returning during the festival (Durga Puja) time from her home far away. She is particularly feted as the wife of Shiva and may be seen by some as an aspect of PARVATI. In the texts, as opposed to popular and local mythologies, her role as wife is not important."
• The Illustrated Encyclopedia of Hinduism by James G. Lochtefeld, p. 208, entry Durga - the Devi mahatmya is mentioned, no identification with Parvati
• Handbook of Hindu mythology pp. 122-4: "The myths about Durgâ (the impassable) are like litmus paper. The paper indicates complete opposites (acid or alkaloid) as well as degrees of either. There are several oppositions: Durgâ as beautiful, peaceful sister of Vishnu, wife of Siva, or Durgâ as ferocious, powerful, avenging destroyer."
• Puranic Encyclopedia by Vettam Mani p. 254: "DURGA I. The goddess of the universe, Durga possesses different forms and aspects. Parvati, spouse of Siva is a form of Durga." In Devi entry p. 216, Durga is called "the consort of Siva."
• Encyclopedia of Psychology and Religion by David A. Leeming, Kathryn Madden, Stanton Marlan (Eds.) Entry - Shakti "Shiva’s shakti takes many forms – Uma, Durga, the terrifying Kali, the motherly Parvati, for instance."
• South Indian Sculptures: A Reappraisal by Pratapaditya Pal (Boston Museum Bulletin, Vol. 67, No. 350 (1969)) p. 165 "Primarily the Devi, known by her various names as Durga, Uma, Parvati, or Kali, is the consort of Siva. However, she has many manifestations and may also be the consorts of other gods, for all the goddesses ultimately emanate from one source -- cosmic energy. In a sense as Mahisasuramarddinoir the killer of the buffalo demon she is the consort of none as she was created by the collective will of the divinities."
• Hindu Goddesses : Visions of the Divine Feminine in the Hindu Religious Tradition by David Kinsley p. 95 chapter Durga - "At a certain point in her history Durga becomes associated with the god Siva* as his wife. In this role Durga assumes domestic characteristics and is often identified with the goddess Parvati"

Based on the overview, suggest mentioning identification as consort of Shiva/ Parvati in lead. Any association with Lakshmi in Vaishnavism (have not studied the Vaishnava references to Durga" is noteworthy, but not in the lead. Redtigerxyz ^Talk 17:40, 7 November 2020 (UTC)

@Redtigerxyz: Article is not just about Shaktism views. Durga is considered as one of the form of Lakshmi, sister of Vishnu and Celibate in many Indian traditions, especially among South Indian traditions. It is very peculiar case, which we won't see for any other goddesses. Here are the references:

• Joyce Burkhalter Flueckiger (6 May 2015), Everyday Hinduism, John Wiley & Sons, p. 28, Many other goddesses such as Durga and the gramadevata seven sisters have no concerts either narratively or in visual representation.
• Neal H. Walls (1992). The Goddess Anat in Ugaritic Myth. Scholars Press. p. 36. The centrality of Durga's celibacy to this myth is reflected in the South Indian tradition's explicit claim that only a virgin goddess is powerful enough to defeat the demon.
• Tracy Pintchman (8 April 2015), Rise of the Goddess in the Hindu Tradition, State University of New York Press, p. 205, The goddess Durgā, for example who is unmarried and destructive, helps maintain order by destroying the forced that threated the world; hence she is viewed as benevolent and is frequently invoked as "mother".
• Bhagavad Gita: Bhashya and Tatparyanirnaya of Sri Madhva. 1995. p. 221. It is further said : " Shri , Bhu and Durga are the distinct three forms of the Great Illusion , of Sri Lakshmi . She does not partake the endless energies of the Lord , since she has taken refuge in Him .
• N. V. Isaeva (1 January 1993), Shankara and Indian Philosophy, SUNY Press, p. 252, The world emerged into being at the beginning of every universal cycle through the (sakti) of Isvara. This energy or potency often personified in the image of Visnu's consort Laksmi, begins the evolution of matter or prakrti, "Similar to light and transparent fabric". Prakrti represents the immediate source and foundation for three gunas: sattva, rajas and tamas, which are ruled by three aspects of Laksmī respectively (Srī, Bhū, and Durgā).
• P. Pratap Kumar (1997), The Goddess Lakṣmī: The Divine Consort in South Indian Vaiṣṇava Tradition, Scholars Press, p. 54, E. J. Lott points out that Madhva takes the principle of māyā, in the sense that they are the prakrti's aspects as the pure (Srī), vigorous (Bhū), and dark (Durgā).
• J.L. Shastri; G.P. Bhatt (1 January 2004), Ancient Indian Tradition and Mythology Volume 14: The Garuda Purana Part 3, Motilal Banarsidass, p. 978.
  So it's better to keep infobox consort section blank respecting all traditions of India. - MRRaja001 (talk) 05:14, 8 November 2020 (UTC)

Durga consort to infobox

@Lk568354: @Basavaraj Patel: @Fylindfotberserk: @Rosguill: In Hinduism, Durga is considered as a form of Lakshmi, the wife of Vishnu by Vaishnavas and she is considered as the wife of Shiva by Shaivas and some consider Durga as Sister of Vishnu. According to some traditions she is the Supreme Being and from her emanated Brahma (Creator), Vishnu (Sustainer) and Shiva (destroyer). The Sikhism and Jainism traditions have their own beliefs on Durga's consort. So its better to be neutral and leave the consort section blank. What do you guys say - MRRaja001 (talk) 08:32, 4 November 2020 (UTC)

No, actually, in all Shaktism, Vaishnavism, Shaivism, Durga is known to be the consort of Shiva, as is Lakshmi is considered the consort of Vishnu in all of the aformentioned religions. There is no neutrality, because then the assumption of bachelorhood is predominantly given weight, which is absolutely false. Durga (as Parvati) is considered the sister of Vishnu by both traditions. Also note, all traditions are essentially the same traditions. The only difference being the emphasis on which form of God. -- — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lk568354 (talk • contribs)

@MRRaja001: This source specifically mentions Durga being one of the three aspects of Laxmi. And Lk568354, could you present which of the sources says ...but also as a sister to Vishnu in your edit? Also note that you've been blocked before for 3RR before, so discuss it here. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 11:08, 4 November 2020 (UTC)

@Fylindfotberserk: That's what I'm trying to tell, but @Lk568354: is removing the content or changing according to his will without discussing properly. According to Vaishnavism traditions durga is considered as one of the three forms of Goddess Lakshmi, the other two being Shri and Bhu Citation 1 . So, how can we add Shiva as consort of Durga into infobox. This makes things biased. - MRRaja001 (talk) 12:04, 4 November 2020 (UTC)

I agree to the BALANCE thing, pinging @Ms Sarah Welch:. Perhaps she can weigh in on this. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 14:23, 4 November 2020 (UTC)

I want to add that consort changes depending upon the source you are considering for. For eg. Lakshmi is associated with Dharma, Indra or Aswins in some later texts, but now everyone knows who is her consort. Other gods and goddesses including Saraswati, Ganesha, Vishnu, Ganga, Shiva and Brahma have been associated with one another, but we consider widely accepted facts. In most cultures, Durga is considered Shiva's consort.

Regards, .👨🏻‍🎨 💠245CMR💠.•^👥📜 14:38, 4 November 2020 (UTC)

I am not sure but Maa Durga is considered Lord Vishnu's sister in some culture of Vaishnavism. But, I don't think this should be added in the infobox as this is an example of rare association which I mentioned and Parvati is generally considered as Vishnu's sister.

.👨🏻‍🎨 💠245CMR💠.•^{👥 📜} 15:27, 4 November 2020 (UTC)

The fact is that Parvati is Durga, the same being called by different names. Can't call Parvati a sister of Vishnu and then say that Durga (aka Parvati) is not. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lk568354 (talk • contribs) 18:24, 4 November 2020 (UTC)

Also it's disrespectful to disregard Durga as Shiva's consort, just as it's disrespectful to disregard Radha as Krishna's consort. It's public manipulation aimed at biasing unlearned minds with a false fabricated emphasis. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lk568354 (talk • contribs) 18:24, 4 November 2020 (UTC)

The majority of Indians cannot see a Durga or a Shiva without a consort. They are the consort of each other. They define each other. This deliberate deletion of something so positive and noncontroversial is biased on your end. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lk568354 (talk • contribs) 18:24, 4 November 2020 (UTC)

Many devotees cannot worship Durga without Shiva, and vice versa. This is simply disrespectful and unjust. This is the most crucial aspect, element, and description of Durga on her page, which namely is her consort. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lk568354 (talk • contribs) 18:24, 4 November 2020 (UTC)

I am not trying to support anybody, but we cannot keep each and everything neutral in Infobox as there are thousands of scriptures. .👨🏻‍🎨 💠245CMR💠.•^👥📜 03:41, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

Durga and Parvati can be the same goddess or forms of Shakti. Vishnu is generally considered Parvati's spiritual brother, but he can be considered Durga's too. .👨🏻‍🎨 💠245CMR💠.•^👥📜 03:49, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

Durga as Pravathi is only the view of Shaivism, later it was adopted by Shaktas too. Vaishnavism especially from South India, especially according to Ramanujacharya and Madhvacharya, Durga is considered a form of Lakshmi and a Brahmacharini (she who is celibate for life). Vaishnavas never accept Durga as wife of Shiva. It is not possible to add to infobox with this kind of view. - MRRaja001 (talk) 05:51, 5 November 2020 (UTC) --> actually that is false. You just made a radical assumption that Vaishnavas never accept Durga as wife of Shiva. The fact is that Vaishnaves do not even focus on Shiva or Durga/Parvati. They focus on Vishnu and Lakshmi. So that is not a valid source to go to in regards to Durga's eternal consorthood with Shiva. It seems as if you're just promoting your false bias based off your biased radical interpretation of hindu spirituality. So note: it is absolutely warranted to keep lovers/consorts together. Also, from a moral perspective, it is wrong to divorce consorts.

Also note: Vaishnavism doesn't have more of a say on Shiva or Durga than Shaivism or Shaktism.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Lk568354 (talk • contribs) 7 November 2020 (UTC)

@Lk568354: I don't know about North Indian Vaishnavas. I'm mainly talking about South Indian Vaishnavas. Because North Indians consider Radha as wife of Krishna, while South Indian and Maharashtrian Vaishnavas won't accept this. Like this there are many differences among Vaishnava traditions. But in South Indian traditions, Durga is considered as Celibate Goddess and is not associated with anyone even though a form of Lakshmi. In South Indian Vaishnavism, especially in Madhva Sampradaya Durga worship is given much importance. Even Madhvacharya used to go to Durga temple on hilltop of Pajaka and talk with her. Jayatirtha, one of the main saints of Dvaita also did severe austerities and gained blessings of Durga. With the blessings of Durga Mata only he wrote all his works. Like this there are many glories in Madhva tradition. How can you simply generalize all like this. - MRRaja001 (talk) 04:54, 7 November 2020 (UTC)

      ---> actually Durga is never considered a celibate "goddess". In fact no being can be considered a "god" without a consort, and celibacy is a made up radical notion prominent amongst people who were taught against consorthood and sex, because their belief came from the notion that to become a religious person, they have to disassociate completely from interacting with the people on earth. Also, a few cultures, especially a few (not all) south indian cultures, are hypocritical with this notion because they still associate consorthood with Vishnu and many major deities, because they can't find a way to get away from this established notion. I'm not generalizing. Simply talking about Pajaka is deviating from the topic and is also a generalization. Many people are true devotees of Durga, including me and my lineage of ancestors. We just do not show it to the world like Pajaka because we interact less with the people on earth. The fact is the many people cannot see a goddess without a god, Durga without Shiva, Radha without Krishna. And this is actually a forward-looking cheerful perceptive, because we cannot see our mother and father departing. Every devotee will commune with Durga, not just Pajaka. 

Pls re read what I wrote earlier. .👨🏻‍🎨 💠245CMR💠.•^👥📜 07:55, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

I have gone through everything that you've written, it's better to leave infobox without adding consort. You need to understand one thing, i can also provide you ten's of references on Durga as Lakshmi's form and as female celibate (means didn't marry anyone even though a Lakshmi's form). But it's better to stop here and leave consort section blank. - MRRaja001 (talk) 15:21, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

@Lk568354: @Fylindfotberserk: @Rosguill: @MRRaja001: The principle text of Shaktism, Devi Mahatmya which reveres Durga as the principal deity, calls Lakshmi to be form of Durga and as wife of shiva.

"Deva Ouchu: Namo devyai maha devyai shivayai sathatham nama, Nama prakruthyair bhadrayair niyatha pranatha sma thaam.,7 "

English Translation :

"Devas told: Salutations to the Goddess. Salutations to that great Goddess who is the consort of Shiva,Salutations to her who is nature and she who takes care of every thing. We are saluting her with veneration after controlling our mind."

"Thwam Srees thwam easwari, thwam hree sthwam budhir bhoda lakshana, Lajja pushtisthadha thushtisthwam santhi kshanthireva cha.,61"

English Translation :

"You are Goddess Lakshmi, you are the wife of Lord Shiva, you are shyness, you are the intellect helping to take definite decision, you are the intellect which makes us hesitate to take decisions, and similarly you are happiness, solace and patience."

If you interpret the entire text of Devi Mahatmya, she is being referred to as wife of shiva or rudra, mother of all demigods including vishnu(shaktite interpretation), mother of all beings, guiding force of Trimurtis.

I will provide more sources. Let there not be any more edits on this issue. My interpretation is just because Shaktism says Lakshmi is wife of shiva, we should take it as a syncretic text showing all are manifestations of brahman. No person has done edits on this regard on pages pertaining to Lakshmi offending vaishnavaites. Basavaraj Patel (talk)

@Basavaraj Patel: Well, that is a Shaktism interpretation. Vaishnavism interpretation is different from this. The thing is article is about various traditions and their interpretation's, how can we add only Shaktism interpretation to infobox. - MRRaja001 (talk) 07:31, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

• If the Durga's status as consort differs across significant religious groups, then it's probably not something that belongs in the infobox. _signed, Rosguill ^talk 09:41, 6 November 2020 (UTC) ---> That's not a good argument, because predominantly Durga is the consort of Shiva. It does not differ across significant religious groups because the three main groups Shaivism, Shaktism, and Vaishnavism regard Durga as Shiva's consort. Also note: the religious groups who do disagree are NOT by any means "significant." They are minor radical groups, typically they are uneducated. Also, of prominent importance, is the fact that it is very offensive to disregard Durga as Shiva's consort to the majority of the Durga worshipers just as it is offensive to disregard Radha as Krishna's consort.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Lk568354 (talk • contribs) 7 November 2020 (UTC)

Have to agree with Rosguill here. If the "consort" part is contentious, then IMO, it is better to live it blank in the infobox. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 12:12, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

References

Then what about other gods and goddesses associated with one another. Better to leave. .💠245CMR💠.•^👥📜 13:08, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

@Lk568354: @Fylindfotberserk: @Rosguill: @MRRaja001: Let me make my case with sources. Basavaraj Patel (talk)

@Lk568354: @Fylindfotberserk: @Rosguill: @MRRaja001: @245CMR: I have few questions directed towards MRRaja001 1. Why were continious references to Parvati apart from Shiva removed from the page by him ? I want him to accept he has an extremist bias, since the school of dvaita philosophy he believes in, has a history of opposition to other religions including religions worshipping Shiva or Shakti. The most famous and controversial organisation of dvaita philosophy being International Society for Krishna Consciousness.

• An article by ISCKON IRM condemning worship of demigods Godess Parvati(Durga) and God Shiva by ISCKON Hungary. Yes the article by an extremist organisation referring to Goddess Durga as Godess Parvati.
• Another article by another outlet associated with ISCKON movement condemning worship of Durga in a blasphemous way. . I do not have any personal opposition to MRRaja001, he is entitled to his opinions, however extremist his opinions are.
• The organisation was referred to as Hare Krishna Religion by the US Courts, Link : International Society for Krishna Consciousness, How could the views and inferences of this group could be used as source or references for texts on Hinduism.

I have more questions and sources for this debate, I am requesting for time. Basavaraj Patel (talk)

@Basavaraj Patel: For Your Information:
* Firstly i have never removed any reference from Durga page, you can go through the history of page.
*Secondly, i am not biased towards any tradition. My opinion is every tradition have their own beliefs and opinions, so adding one belief to infobox doesn't make any sense.
*Third, The International Society for Krishna Consciousness is not related to Dvaita Vedanta. They are followers of their own philosophy called Achintya Bheda Abheda. There is no connection between the two except worship of Lord Vishnu.
*Fourth, Can you please quote which reference that i have provided is from ISKCON.
*Fifth, Go through this link you'll come to know the difference between ISKCON and Dvaita Vedanta of Madhvacharya. You're just blaming me without having proper knowledge on the things. Understand one thing Madhvas or followers of Dvaita Vedanta belong to Vaishnavism tradition, so they'll obviously oppose to Shaktism and Shaivism views like other Vaishnavism traditions what's the big deal about this. (this is regarding your first point)
*I am ready to answer all your questions. - MRRaja001 (talk) 17:11, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

@MRRaja001: Why have you not removed Lakshmi's consort from that page ? and added a note that Shaktites believe Lakshmi to be consort of Shiva ? I just checked the references you used in this page, those references are not in your favour.Basavaraj Patel (talk) 18:37, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

Reference 1(Isaeva, N. V. (1993), Shankara and Indian Philosophy, SUNY Press, ISBN 978-0791412817) : This discusses Dvaita Philosophy and Advaita philosophy. "Prakriti represents the immediate source and foundation of three gunas which are ruled by three aspects and embodiments of Lakshmi(sri, bhu and durga)".

Reference 2(Pintchman, Tracy (2014), Seeking Mahadevi: Constructing the Identities of the Hindu Great Goddess, SUNY Press, ISBN 978-0791490495) : There are two mentions of Durga with respect to Lakshmi. One is Vaishno Devi who is avatar of Lakshmi, being linked to Durga. Second, In Narada Purana and Bramavaivarta Purana, Durga being called as an avatar of Radha( aka Lakshmi ).

Problem with reference 1, Durga is being referred in a syncretic manner. It is not referring it to Goddess Durga but durga as description of character. The dvaita literature do not say durga is woman, do not say what her duties are, do not say what her character is. How convininet that MRRaja001 used this piece to say that Vaishnav texts define and created Durga mythology as a goddess to Vishnu. There are so less references of Durga in vaishnav texts, that we will miss them if we blink. It is devi mahatmya and other non vaishnav texts, which begin to define her as a woman, a goddess, a mother, her duties, her consort shiva.
Problem with reference 2, The book itself recalls many devotees of vaishno devi disagreeing that she is avatar of Durga. And, in Narada Purana (quoted by Pintchman), Krishna divides himself in half to create Siva, later Siva marries Durga. In Brahma Vaivarta Purana, Durga is avatar of Radha and Shiva is avatar of Krishna. So the references quoted by MRRaja do not oppose the view that Shiva is consort of Durga. Basavaraj Patel (talk) 19:11, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

@Fylindfotberserk: @Rosguill: I just want to bring it to you attention. That vaishnav sect to which MRRaja001 adheres to, did not create the mythology of Durga. I challenge everyone to accumulate all references of durga in vaishnav texts and see if it matches the mythology of durga. You will not find a single piece of mythology associated with durga in their texts.
It is common for different religions to quote and include other religions in a syncretic manner. Vaishnav texts have included Durga in a syncretic manner, while the mythology surrounding Durga is built by Shaivite and Shakti traditions. This case is similar to Jesus being quoted in Quran. Character, Mythology and Devotion around Jesus is built by christianity. Facts from Quran regarding Jesus need not be interpreted as "opposing" information, but as syncretic adoptions in ancient world. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Basavaraj Patel (talk • contribs) 19:32, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

@Basavaraj Patel: Don't worry i can provide you references:
Example text
* In Mahabharata Tatparya Nirnaya, Tantra Sara Sangraha, Gita Tatparya, Bhagavata Tatparya Nirnaya, etc. Madhvacharya explained everything related to Maa Durga.
* If you want meaning of Devi Mahatmya according to Madhva Sampradaya you can learn from this magazine.
* Madhvacharya himself used to go to Durga temple in Pajaka on the hilltop which was constructed by Lord Parashurama and used to talk with Maa Durga.
* Raghavendra Tirtha many times met Maa Durga and offered her naivedya too.
*Along with Krishna, and Balarama idols, Madhvacharya also found Maa Durga idol, which he consecrated and built temple.
* Vadiraja Tirtha also built a Mookambika temple, also a name of Durga.
Example text
These are all the the mythology surrounding Maa Durga. Hope i answered. - MRRaja001 (talk) 08:28, 7 November 2020 (UTC)

@Lk568354:@245CMR: Could you post links of news articles(from different states) calling durga as wife of shiva, navratri celebrations and such. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Basavaraj Patel (talk • contribs) 19:32, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

@Lk568354: @Basavaraj Patel:, Before saving your talk edits, put four '~' for signature..💠245CMR💠.•^👥📜 03:24, 7 November 2020 (UTC)

Overview of literature:

• Encyclopedia of Hinduism by Constance A. Jones and James D. Ryan: entry Durga, pp. 139-40 Talks initially about an independent nature in the Devi mahatmya then "She is also cast as a married daughter, returning during the festival (Durga Puja) time from her home far away. She is particularly feted as the wife of Shiva and may be seen by some as an aspect of PARVATI. In the texts, as opposed to popular and local mythologies, her role as wife is not important."
• The Illustrated Encyclopedia of Hinduism by James G. Lochtefeld, p. 208, entry Durga - the Devi mahatmya is mentioned, no identification with Parvati
• Handbook of Hindu mythology pp. 122-4: "The myths about Durgâ (the impassable) are like litmus paper. The paper indicates complete opposites (acid or alkaloid) as well as degrees of either. There are several oppositions: Durgâ as beautiful, peaceful sister of Vishnu, wife of Siva, or Durgâ as ferocious, powerful, avenging destroyer."
• Puranic Encyclopedia by Vettam Mani p. 254: "DURGA I. The goddess of the universe, Durga possesses different forms and aspects. Parvati, spouse of Siva is a form of Durga." In Devi entry p. 216, Durga is called "the consort of Siva."
• Encyclopedia of Psychology and Religion by David A. Leeming, Kathryn Madden, Stanton Marlan (Eds.) Entry - Shakti "Shiva’s shakti takes many forms – Uma, Durga, the terrifying Kali, the motherly Parvati, for instance."
• South Indian Sculptures: A Reappraisal by Pratapaditya Pal (Boston Museum Bulletin, Vol. 67, No. 350 (1969)) p. 165 "Primarily the Devi, known by her various names as Durga, Uma, Parvati, or Kali, is the consort of Siva. However, she has many manifestations and may also be the consorts of other gods, for all the goddesses ultimately emanate from one source -- cosmic energy. In a sense as Mahisasuramarddinoir the killer of the buffalo demon she is the consort of none as she was created by the collective will of the divinities."
• Hindu Goddesses : Visions of the Divine Feminine in the Hindu Religious Tradition by David Kinsley p. 95 chapter Durga - "At a certain point in her history Durga becomes associated with the god Siva* as his wife. In this role Durga assumes domestic characteristics and is often identified with the goddess Parvati"

Based on the overview, suggest mentioning identification as consort of Shiva/ Parvati in lead. Any association with Lakshmi in Vaishnavism (have not studied the Vaishnava references to Durga" is noteworthy, but not in the lead. Redtigerxyz ^Talk 17:40, 7 November 2020 (UTC)

@Redtigerxyz: Article is not just about Shaktism views. Durga is considered as one of the form of Lakshmi, sister of Vishnu and Celibate in many Indian traditions, especially among South Indian traditions. It is very peculiar case, which we won't see for any other goddesses. Here are the references:

• Joyce Burkhalter Flueckiger (6 May 2015), Everyday Hinduism, John Wiley & Sons, p. 28, Many other goddesses such as Durga and the gramadevata seven sisters have no concerts either narratively or in visual representation.
• Neal H. Walls (1992). The Goddess Anat in Ugaritic Myth. Scholars Press. p. 36. The centrality of Durga's celibacy to this myth is reflected in the South Indian tradition's explicit claim that only a virgin goddess is powerful enough to defeat the demon.
• Tracy Pintchman (8 April 2015), Rise of the Goddess in the Hindu Tradition, State University of New York Press, p. 205, The goddess Durgā, for example who is unmarried and destructive, helps maintain order by destroying the forced that threated the world; hence she is viewed as benevolent and is frequently invoked as "mother".
• Bhagavad Gita: Bhashya and Tatparyanirnaya of Sri Madhva. 1995. p. 221. It is further said : " Shri , Bhu and Durga are the distinct three forms of the Great Illusion , of Sri Lakshmi . She does not partake the endless energies of the Lord , since she has taken refuge in Him .
• N. V. Isaeva (1 January 1993), Shankara and Indian Philosophy, SUNY Press, p. 252, The world emerged into being at the beginning of every universal cycle through the (sakti) of Isvara. This energy or potency often personified in the image of Visnu's consort Laksmi, begins the evolution of matter or prakrti, "Similar to light and transparent fabric". Prakrti represents the immediate source and foundation for three gunas: sattva, rajas and tamas, which are ruled by three aspects of Laksmī respectively (Srī, Bhū, and Durgā).
• P. Pratap Kumar (1997), The Goddess Lakṣmī: The Divine Consort in South Indian Vaiṣṇava Tradition, Scholars Press, p. 54, E. J. Lott points out that Madhva takes the principle of māyā, in the sense that they are the prakrti's aspects as the pure (Srī), vigorous (Bhū), and dark (Durgā).
• J.L. Shastri; G.P. Bhatt (1 January 2004), Ancient Indian Tradition and Mythology Volume 14: The Garuda Purana Part 3, Motilal Banarsidass, p. 978.
  So it's better to keep infobox consort section blank respecting all traditions of India. - MRRaja001 (talk) 05:14, 8 November 2020 (UTC)

Impossibility of editing this article

I was going to fix a grammatical error in this article (changing "Outside Indian subcontinent" to the much more appropriate "Outside the Indian subcontinent"), but it was impossible to do so because this article appears to be locked from editing -- though there is no mention that that is the case, nor explanation of this, in this "Talk" page. Please fix this ridiculous situation. 173.88.246.138 (talk) 02:30, 17 August 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 October 2021

2601:282:D02:2FF0:ED81:FAFB:AF0F:EDA3 (talk) 15:53, 17 October 2021 (UTC)

so I see that her husband is “shiva” but it’s really isn’t it’s Vishnu I wanna change that

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 16:46, 17 October 2021 (UTC)

Whole Article is as per Vaishnavism

The who article has been written only upon considering vaishnav sources. Durga is central deity in Shaktism, but she hardly been written as per Shaktas or Shaviasm point of view.

I am mythologist myself and I reject whole article it should be re written. Wikipedia has no writer from Shaktism sect so I dont think Wikipedia would rewrite it…. Jhanjeriboy (talk) 23:19, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

Article not properly written and major confusion in Durga/Vaishno Devi

First of all, Durga is the divine form of Mahadevi/devi which is a primordial energy also called AadiShakti. She is most worshipped in the form of Vaishno Devi. Also Vaishno Devi temple in Katra, J&K, India is the most visited temple and pilgrimage worldwide.

She's worshipped in different forms like in Shaivism, she is considered as Parvati (shiva's wife) and Vishnu devotees consider her as Lakshmi (Vishnu's wife) and etc. In Shaktism, she is considered and most worshipped as Durga and Vaishno Devi and also Maha Kaali.

But the truth is these all forms are same and overall one as SHAKTI/MAHADEVI/DEVI which is the most supreme energy and the creator of all gods. Through this energy the three major gods emerged (Brahma, Vishnu, Shiv)

And tons of editors on wiki connected to all the pages of her are confused about Durga and Vaishno Devi. All claim that they are different but actually the truth is that they are same. Vaishno Devi is her form only. And all those hindu borthers who also think that there's difference between Maa Durga and Maa Vaishno Devi. Read the holy text sentence of "Shri Durga Kavach", if you have read it then there's a line " yatra mai dukh koi na tere sirr pr aae kavach tumhara har jagah meri करे sahaey - यात्रा में दुख कोई ना तेरे सर पर आए कवच तुम्हारा हर जगह मेरी करे साहाऐ" Now when this holy line states word 'yatra' then what does it means? There is only one yatra/pilgrimage connected to Durga which is Vaishno Devi yatra. So how can they be different.

This article should be written exactly about Durga and Vaishno Devi only. Durga form killed mahishasura and Vaishno Devi form killed Bhairavnath and spent 9 months in the cave where today exist Vaishno Devi temple. They both are exactly same and emerge in different forms just. Keshavv1234 (talk) 06:12, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

@Keshavv1234 I suggest you desist from making edits without consensus. Read:

• Wikipedia:Consensus
• Wikipedia:Neutral point of view
• Wikipedia:Tendentious editing
• Wikipedia:Edit warring

— DaxServer (t · m · c) 08:12, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

More info and clearity needed on Goddess Durga

This article is being continuously edited and is consisting many information which is totally false and without any citation.

Many editors have recently asked to provide some reference from to know and prove whether durga is creator of Tridev/Trimurti or not. Here are some of them (in the end). These websites just have the justification of what the authentic information is written in the holy texts. Just have a look once. Especially on the first one. Reference no. 1. I know all may quote that these references might not be reliable especially quora one but those websites just have the official text justification with original language and images as per major bhagwats and purans. Also whereever you search across Google about who is the mother or creator of Trimurti, you will find Durga only being the most common.

I request all other editors concerned with this page to please weigh on this topic because the original holy texts including Devi bhagwat, durga shatspati, bhagwat gita, shiv mahapuran don't lie. All 3 of them brahma, vishnu and shiv call durga their mother and creator.

• According to many of the major holy texts in hinduism, she is considered as the initial and principal goddess, the universe mother and the creator of Trimurti and Tridevi along with Sadasiva also known as Kaal Brahm

Keshavv1234 (talk) 15:17, 3 May 2022 (UTC)

References

Consort of shiva as durga

Just one question I want to known what is role of wife of shiva I vaishnavism. According to vaishnavism laxmi is goddess of war and godess of fortune all except godess of knowledge,music,art and wisdom then wife of shiva is regarded as godess of which thing so, why he need a wife. now talking about durga as shiva wife in all 9 froms of Durga shiva is considered as shiva consort. and also in ten mahaVidhya. So, we can considered consort of shiva as Durga. 2401:4900:5DB2:7160:FC5A:5E56:D4AC:2CA4 (talk) 18:43, 11 December 2021 (UTC)

Yes, because Durga is principal mahadevi shakti, she is the one who appeared in the form of Parvati/Sati. She is the one who is the wife of vishnu in the form of lakshmi. She is the one who is the form of brahma's wife/shakti saraswati. She has endless forms. Like she is the mother of vishnu as devi shakti durga, she is the one who is vishnu's wife as lakshmi, she is the one who is in the form of vishnu's devotee Vaishno devi. But she is overall as one only. Like vishnu is the same as rama and krishna. Same is Durga in all forms of devis and goddess, when she has to kill demons she takes form of kaali also. Keshavv1234 (talk) 15:35, 3 May 2022 (UTC)

Titles

@Keshavv1234, @Mili977 It's better to discuss here regarding the titles, reliable sources etc and then let the final outcome go to the main page. Otherwise, page will get disrupted.

Kridha (talk) 10:30, 24 July 2022 (UTC)

Consensus

Hello, @Keshavv1234 and @Mili977. There has been a continuous on going tussle between you two regarding the content of the article. I suggest both of you to immediately cease your activity on the main page and discuss your disagreements thoroughly on the talk page of the article because this edit warring is degrading the readability and quality of the page. Looking for your cooperation to improve the content of the page. Thanks. Kridha (talk) 17:01, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

User:Kridha He unnecessarily links the name of Durga on every page related to the great goddess. He has mentioned in some pages that only Durga is the full form of Mahadevi. He also mentions that the navaratri festival is only for worshiping the form of Durga. But it is not so. In the Navaratri festival, not only Navadurga is worshiped but other forms of Goddess are also worshipped. Also, the other names mentioned by him for Goddess Durga are the names that are commonly addressed to Mahadevi. All the above facts differ according to traditions and beliefs, so it is not appropriate to give bias to one belief only. Mili977 (talk) 17:10, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

Dear concerned, Kridha I have pinged you and requested to kindly redirect to the talk page of Diannaa where I've discussed this full concern. I've mentioned you there for help. Please have a detailed look on it and I request the user Mili977 also to not being hatred, instead I'm only and only wanting that article should contain the general info which was deliberately removed by you. There's no benefit in fighting. And kindly once redirect to the talk page which I'm talking about.

And kindly take a note, I'm not devoted to any deity in Hinduism. Nor I'm I adding personal stuff or believes. I'm just trying to improve and maintain the original sentences of article. Moreover, if you keep on doing this undo and reverts again and again or for thousand times, each time it will be reverted. And also the new image you are adding isn't suitable here as that image is only notable in Kolkata Durga puja and others. But the former image is notable all over india. And what user kridha has removed my edit of panch prakriti because it wasn't sourced, I accepted it. But she is member of the panch prakriti page. Anyways, I'm generally saying that kindly don't remove the information as it was properly sourced and was on the article from so long and the other names of the goddess are most notable and affiliated to Durga. Also Navaratri and Navadurgas are totally associated with Durga as Navaratri celebrates Nav durgas Or nine forms of durgas during 9 nights as per the holy texts. So I'm doing the revert again and this time I request kridha to have a final look. As there's nothing inappropriate in that. Also I'm requesting this only because the article may be disrupted. Keshavv1234 (talk) 18:50, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

Kindly check article now. This is the best version. I've already removed many things which you and kridha asked to remove due to no source but the current revision is fully sourced. I'm neither promoting nor disrespecting any deities. Only improving the page. I've already did a lot lot of hardwork in many pages and improved them. Keshavv1234 (talk) 18:59, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

@Keshavv1234 and @Mili977 I have few important suggestions which can be incorporated in the article -

• Keep the introduction short. Only mention significant information. For details, we have other sub sections. Short introduction enhances quality and readability of the article.
• Infobox - Add only significant names of goddess Durga. Move other names to Etymology section. Also, there is absolutely no need to add names of all goddesses in affiliation field. Check pages of other goddesses, how affiliation is restricted to only significant terms.
• Club all other traditions like Sikhism, Buddhism etc under one major subsection "Outside Hinduism".

These are few general suggestions I have for this page. Now, as far as the content is concerned, I'll check the sources and match the content. If content is found unsourced or poorly sourced, then it will be removed. Also, the repetitive content needs to be removed as it is just increasing the length of the article. From now onwards, please mention only the exact point in which you have difference in opinion with other editors along with the supportive references to support your point. Thanks.

Have already removed repeated affiliated goddesses. Keshavv1234 (talk) 06:39, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

Created outside Hinduism section also and moved other religions faiths under it. Keshavv1234 (talk) 06:47, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

Done everything as per your suggestions. Removed some other names and kept main info short. Rest moved down in the body. Keshavv1234 (talk) 07:02, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

What is the source for all these names? Where is Triyambake coming from? What source? --Gilgul Kaful (talk) 08:20, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

Her significant mantra (om sarvamngal mangalye) clearly states here as Triyambake (who has three eyes) also many sources claim this as well. I have however removed many names as per suggestions by Kridha and Mili977 Keshavv1234 (talk) 08:49, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

A mantra? Is there a reliable source saying that? Using the religious mantra itself is prone to errors and interpretations. --Gilgul Kaful (talk) 08:59, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 August 2022

Hello Actually in this page she is only associated with lakshmi whereas she is also linked with sarswati and parvati Kindly Give me permission To Edit This Thanks VedicGyani (talk) 10:34, 28 August 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. This is also not the place to request additional user rights. Jack Frost (talk) 12:20, 28 August 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 December 2022

Change Sanskrit to Sanskriti 27.6.196.234 (talk) 14:40, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit semi-protected}} template. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 08:15, 11 December 2022 (UTC)

"32 Names of Durga" mantra

What would be an appropriate way to include mantras such as the "32 Names of Durga" (see https://en.citizendium.org/wiki/32_Names_of_Durga) and other mantras about Durga in this article? They are used in yoga practices and recited also at festivals.Harborsparrow (talk) 20:13, 5 January 2023 (UTC)