Talk:Diving (association football)

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Please limit the use of examples of simulation to strictly cases where a player who has been diciplened for doing so by a FIFA official, otherwise you are throwing mud around

Extra info, add infamous instances[edit]

Could someone please add infamous instances of simulation as a section.

any other additions would be appreciated

jstupple7 19:11, 27 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You could talk about Man United. Most of there goals are penalties because of diving and cheating. 70.232.113.196 21:06, 21 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I think Rivaldo's antics in the 2002 World Cup take the prize though. Jooler 09:43, 2 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]


nonregistered user suggests this video be embedded as an example. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxydvtu9UsM&feature=player_embedded

Proposed merge with Football diving[edit]

I think this is the better title of the two. Amcguinn 12:10, 16 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]


Generalizing: Every person involved in football thinks that diving is...harmful[edit]

"Every person involved in football thinks that diving is a harmful element of the game, and many teams have lost games unfairly because of it." That seems like a huge generalization to say that every person thinks so. It would be more appropriate to say "most". --71.225.229.151 01:13, 19 June 2006 (UTC) Can we call it soccor?[reply]

a list of famous dives: we don't need one[edit]

We dont need one. Its only going to start flaming, trolling, spamming, etc. And if we are going to add every single player accused of this, even if it was just once, then it should be over 57 pages long. No lists in the article please 71.254.197.64

see also: cristiano ronaldo not needed[edit]

i don't see the need to have cristiano ronaldo on the 'see also' list - otherwise all players mentioned in this article would be there - will take his name off

Drogba's diving on this page[edit]

Why is there no mention of Drogba's diving on this page, while Cristiano Ronaldo has almost an entire paragraph devoted to his "habitual diving"? Same goes for Joe Cole, Ashley Cole, John Terry and Steven Gerrard. - PeeJay 08:32, 16 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Where's your proof that Drogba dives?

Scaramang (talk) 23:31, 15 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

You know...Perhaps you might need to change the title of this page[edit]

The world plays other football codes than Cambridge Association type football. In most of these other codes, the term "diving" is considered to be a positive thing rather than a negative term. Perhaps you might need to change the title of this page from "Diving (Football)" to "Diving (Association Football)" or "Diving (Football[soccer])" or even "Simulation (Association football term)"

ColdRedRain (talk) 18:22, 5 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Deletion of examples[edit]

One thing this page is lacking is examples, there is a really bad reason why, editors (mostly anons) keep repeatedly deleting these names, many well referenced. Should this page be protected from new users? Should the referenced examples be restored? Or better yet, only referenced examples were players have been cited for diving?


This has been a constant battle, a small sample:


00:58, 24 March 2008 to present:


Removed 21:32, 18 July 2009:

==Some Famous Examples==
Steven Gerrard simulated and got Liverpool a third goal against AC Milan in the 2005 Champions League Final and Liverpool unfairly won the cup.
Carles Puyol simulated against AC Milan in the 2006 semi final and Shevchenko's clear goal was ruled out.

Removed 22 December 2008:

==Famous incidents==
  • Franny Lee of Manchester City, Derby County and England was one of the first players in English football to get a reputation for diving. In one season he scored 35 goals, 15 of which came from penalties mainly won by him. This inevitably led to accusations of simulation and he was dubbed Lee One Pen or Lee Won Pen.
  • During the 1998 World Cup, in a quarter-final match between Argentina and the Netherlands, Ariel Ortega received a red card for headbutting Dutch goalkeeper Edwin van der Sar, after van der Sar confronted Ortega on his play-acting attempt to draw a penalty. Ortega had already been cautioned by the referee for diving, but his "head-butt" was really only an intimidating gesture which didn't actually hit Van der Sar but Van Der Sar fell down as if he had been hit.[1][2]
  • A notorious incident of a player not caught simulating until after the match occurred during the Brazil vs Turkey group stage match during the 2002 FIFA World Cup. Rivaldo was about to take a corner when Hakan Ünsal of Turkey kicked the ball at him, as he was annoyed about the time Rivaldo was taking and Turkey wanted to hurry up the game. Rivaldo collapsed dramatically holding his face despite the fact that the ball had hit him on his legs. Ünsal was sent off and Brazil went on to win the match. Rivaldo was fined, but the sanctions were criticised as too lenient. Rivaldo's excuse was "I was thinking in advance, I thought that the ball was going to roll up my body and hit me in the head, therefore I tried to protect myself".[3]
  • Arsenal's Robert Pires was accused of diving when he went down easily to earn his team a penalty against Portsmouth in 2003.[4] Arsenal were 1-0 down and the resulting spot kick earned them a 1-1 draw. The Gunners would end the 2003-2004 season unbeaten and would later complete a record 49 match unbeaten streak.
  • On July 5 in the same match against France, which Portugal lost 1-0, Cristiano Ronaldo was loudly booed each time he had possession of the ball, by French and English fans alike. Ronaldo (and other members of his side) has been accused of trying to influence the referee by diving.[6][7][8][9][10] There have been similar accusations in the past, and Ronaldo has been booked for the offence more than once in the English Premier League.[11][12][13] Shortly after he dropped back to second place in the online voting for Best Young Player, it was reported by BBC Sport that this was partly because of an email campaign by an England supporter urging people to vote for Luis Valencia, who was the second place player to prevent Ronaldo from winning the award.[14] Though the online vote only affected the nomination process, FIFA Technical Study Group awarded the honours to Germany's Lukas Podolski, citing Ronaldo's behaviour as a factor.[15]
  • On October 3rd 2007, during a Champion's League game between Celtic and A.C. Milan , 27-year-old Celtic fan Robert McHendry ran onto the pitch towards Dida, touched him on his shoulder, and ran away. Dida attempted to chase after the fan but fell to the ground moments later, holding the side of his face; he was eventually stretchered off the pitch with ice on his face and substituted. [1] Milan announced after the match that they would not seek any punishment against Celtic. McHendry turned himself in to police the next day and was given a lifetime ban from Celtic Park. An investigation of the incident by UEFA resulted in Dida being banned for two games for simulation, whilst Celtic were fined £25,000.

Removed 22:58, 21 October 2008:

  • Arsenal's Robert Pires was accused of diving when he went down easily to earn his team a penalty against Portsmouth in 2003.[17] Arsenal were 1-0 down and the resulting spot kick earned them a 1-1 draw. The Gunners would end the 2003-2004 season unbeaten and would later complete a record 49 match unbeaten streak.
  • July 5th 2006, Thierry Henry went down at the slightest of contact from Portugal defender Ricardo Carvalho to earn France a penalty kick, converted by Zinedine Zidane. France went on to defend their way for the duration of the match and set up their 2nd final appearance in the past three World Cups.
  • On 28 March 2007, Steven Gerrard of Liverpool and England was accused of making a "ludicrous dive" in a failed attempt to win a penalty for England against Andorra during a Euro 2008 qualifying match.[18]


Removed 17:58, 23 September 2008:

Removed 05:22, 28 August 2008:

  • Luis Felipe Scolari's Portugual team would gain (or enhance) a reputation for simulation during the tournament. In their second round clash with The Netherlands (a match that would break the record for red and yellow cards shown at a World Cup game), Luis Figo at one point began to chase Khalid Bouhlarouz, who was running away with the ball. In attempting to out-sprint Figo, Bouhlarouz flailed his arms and marginally scraped Figo's face. Figo fell down clutching his head, which led to Bouhlarouz receiving his second yellow card, meaning Holland were reduced to ten men (Some would argue, however, that Bouhlarouz's first yellow, for a waist-high challenge on Cristiano Ronaldo, should have been a straight red, although the same could be said for Figo's headbutt on Mark van Bommel, which went unnoticed by the referee)[20]. Portugal would ultimately win the match 1-0.

Removed 16:49, 29 July 2008 Also [1]:

On 28 March 2007, Steven Gerrard of Liverpool and England was accused of making a "ludicrous dive" in a failed attempt to win a penalty for England against Andorra during a Euro 2008 qualifying match.[18]


Removed 17:19, 13 April 2008:

  • In the same World Cup on July 9th 7 minutes into the final Florent Malouda took advantage of Marco Materazzi's reputation and went down in the penalty area without contact as Materazzi went in for the challenge only to pull out at the last minute. Realizing that he had lost the ball, Malouda took an additional step before propelling himself into the air and earning France the opening goal converted by Zinedine Zidane, ironically he himself being ejected later on after headbutting Materazzi during some banter later in the game.

References

  1. ^ Jones, P. (1998, July 4). Long-awaited revenge - The Netherlands pay back controversial loss to Argentina. In CNN/SI - World Cup France '98. Retrieved on July 18, 2006.
  2. ^ You're out! - Ortega receives three game suspension for headbutting. (1998, July 5). In CNN/SI - World Cup France '98. Retrieved on July 18, 2006)
  3. ^ "Rivaldo fined for play-acting". ESPN. 2002-06-05. {{cite news}}: Check date values in: |date= (help)
  4. ^ BBC SPORT | Football | My Club | Arsenal | Pires: I am not a cheat
  5. ^ RTÉ Sport: Benitez's fury over Robben's dive
  6. ^ youtube.com. "Portugal have a Dive". Retrieved 2006-07-20.
  7. ^ Mike Hytner (2006-07-06). "Diving threatens to ruin game". Eurosport. Retrieved 2006-07-10. {{cite news}}: Check date values in: |date= (help)
  8. ^ John Haydon (2006-07-06). "Semifinal act". The Washington Times. Retrieved 2006-07-06. {{cite news}}: Check date values in: |date= (help)
  9. ^ Martyn Ziegler (2006-07-05). "NO FOND FAREWELL FOR SCOLARI". Sporting Life. Retrieved 2006-07-10. {{cite news}}: Check date values in: |date= (help)
  10. ^ Bruce Crumley (2006-07-05). "Hungry to the final whistle". Time. Retrieved 2006-07-06. {{cite news}}: Check date values in: |date= (help)
  11. ^ Henry Winter (2005-04-18). "Ferguson's men script a showdown". The Daily Telegraph. Retrieved 2006-07-06. {{cite news}}: Check date values in: |date= (help)
  12. ^ Roy Collins (2004-01-18). "Wolves turn the tables on United". The Daily Telegraph. Retrieved 2006-07-06. {{cite news}}: Check date values in: |date= (help)
  13. ^ Tim Rich (2005-04-18). "Two sent off as United receive history lesson". The Daily Telegraph. Retrieved 2006-07-06. {{cite news}}: Check date values in: |date= (help)
  14. ^ "Supporters 'hijack' Ronaldo vote". BBC. 2006-07-06. Retrieved 2006-07-10. {{cite news}}: Check date values in: |date= (help)
  15. ^ "Podolski beats Ronaldo to award". BBC. 2006-07-07. Retrieved 2006-07-10. {{cite news}}: Check date values in: |date= (help)
  16. ^ "ANDORRA 0-3 ENGLAND". Daily Mirror. 2007-03-29. {{cite news}}: Check date values in: |date= (help)
  17. ^ BBC SPORT | Football | My Club | Arsenal | Pires: I am not a cheat
  18. ^ "ANDORRA 0-3 ENGLAND". Daily Mirror. 2007-03-29. {{cite news}}: Check date values in: |date= (help)
  19. ^ RTÉ Sport: Benitez's fury over Robben's dive
  20. ^ {{cite news|A clip showing all the Holland-Portugal incidents. http://video.google.nl/videosearch?q=nederland-portugal%202006%20figo&ie=UTF-8&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:nl:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&sa=N&tab=wv#
  21. ^ "ANDORRA 0-3 ENGLAND". Daily Mirror. 2007-03-29. {{cite news}}: Check date values in: |date= (help)
  22. ^ "ANDORRA 0-3 ENGLAND". Daily Mirror. 2007-03-29. {{cite news}}: Check date values in: |date= (help)

Merge discussion[edit]

I propose we merge Diving (football) with Diving (ice hockey) in a new article named Diving (foul) or something similar, as they are deal with the exact same foul. I'm not sure about the terminology in other sports, but this format would lend itself well to integration. Schmloof (talk) 08:57, 7 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose on the basis that there is a separate article for Flop (basketball). The football and basketball articles are pretty extensive on their own, and I don't think would lend well to merging. 01:49, 1 June 2011 (UTC)
Oppose 01:49, 6 July 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 154.20.226.18 (talk)

Entry about the Italian team[edit]

The Italian national football team have been well known to use this tactic and wrote the manual on diving sounds POV to me. Is there any source to back up this claim?

173.55.234.237 (talk) 20:19, 20 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Plenty of blog posts about it, but no reliable sources that I an find. Cla68 (talk) 05:57, 12 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Lol @ vandalism[edit]

Removing the seriously BJAODN-able "Main article: Neymar" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.27.55.220 (talk) 22:13, 8 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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Italian players[edit]

Since you agreed to not adding a special reference to Italian teams (which I guess is straight), would you please mention ONE single Italian player in the examples-section? I strongly recommend Filippo Inzaghi who probably is THE example and, as a football player, was basically known for excellent diving... --193.30.37.163 (talk) 11:06, 23 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Can you support the inclusion with citations to reliable sources that mention a reputation for diving? Nzd (talk) 12:08, 23 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

A list of divers: we don't need one[edit]

Why is it necessary to shame these perpetrators, it's not like they have committed a crime. If we were to actually adhere to a consistent and accurate list, then it would have to be significantly longer and would likely be subject to a lot of bias.

I for example added Wayne Rooney and Harry Kane to the list because a) I follow English football more closely than other competitions b) I believe that English players are more likely to get away with diving than a foreign player in the Premier League, so I'm more likely to remember or try to remember them because I won't constantly be reminded that they might or might not be a diver. ENNME (talk) 00:34, 14 December 2021 (UTC)ENNME[reply]

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